Doily Holder Census, 466 listed

DRUNNER · February 12, 2011 12:30PM

The Doily Thread hit 200 on SNMAN's post !!!!!

Go DOILIES . .and if you have one (or more) . .report them. Billet7 has done a lot of work on this and we have quite a good Census going through his efforts!

Drunner
(Resident Doily Slut)
(and thanks to NotSure for his help on the Doilies tonight!)

SNMAN · February 12, 2011 1:04PM

nice score on first doily Wash 25cent

snman

DennisH · February 12, 2011 1:18PM

I have just this one, but plan to sell it soon:

mozeppa · February 12, 2011 1:19PM

the only doily holder i have...

Moldnut · February 17, 2011 12:56PM

Just found this one on ebay.

Billet7 · March 1, 2011 6:16AM

Updated

illini420 · March 1, 2011 6:22AM

I know Drunner says he has a '58-D dime sample slab w/o the outer ring, but there's another 1958-D sample on eBay right now that seems to be intact with the same cert number:

'58-D Dime Sample Slab

toyz4geo · March 1, 2011 1:17PM

Cool thread!

Here are a couple more to bump up the half dollar section:

Billet7 · March 6, 2011 5:36AM

<< I know Drunner says he has a '58-D dime sample slab w/o the outer ring, but there's another 1958-D sample on eBay right now that seems to be intact with the same cert number:

'58-D Dime Sample Slab >>

Yeah, all the sample slabs have the same cert numbers, it's really annoying. There's a good chance they will all have to be removed from the census, since there isn't a good way to track them.

Updated...thanks for the contributions.

oreville · March 6, 2011 12:45PM

<< Yeah, all the sample slabs have the same cert numbers, it's really annoying. There's a good chance they will all have to be removed from the census, since there isn't a good way to track them. >>

Why not just have a separate section/listing for each and all of the doily samples with their common cert number and just list all of the multiple concurrent owners of each sample? This way we have an idea of how many are still out there. It won't be perfect but it will give us an idea of scarcity.

DRUNNER · March 6, 2011 12:55PM

I was able to pick up the sample . . . .

Yes, the earlier one I got (1958-D) is missing the outer ring . . . but this one is intact.

For the record . .just got back from the Vegas show. Strange how national-caliber dealers who have been around as long as dirt have never heard of a 'Doily'. "Huh, is that a Rattler?" Uh . . no, coin buddy, but you need to get out more. I spent 3000 calories running a Doily around the show just showing dealers what one looked like. That was good, because I have about 3,000,000 calories to burn off.

Lost out on the Peace Dollar tonight . . . was on the road and never knew until too late. Looked good.

No Doilies at all in Vegas. Made a few connections, but drove 800 miles without a lot of Doily action.

Drunner
(I hear the Marines use Doilies as special weapons to defeat the aliens in "Battle LA")

seateddime · March 7, 2011 9:33AM

I have a bunch of Merucry Dimes purchased from Teletrade back when you bid via telephone

illini420 · March 7, 2011 9:36AM

I did see one dealer with a few doily holders at the Vegas show, all morgan dollars I think. But they weren't on display in the case but were instead hidden away on the dealers back table. Were very very expensive though!

BAJJERFAN · March 7, 2011 10:15AM

<< I did see one dealer with a few doily holders at the Vegas show, all morgan dollars I think. But they weren't on display in the case but were instead hidden away on the dealers back table. Were very very expensive though! >>

What is very very expensive. I know there is a 91-cc Morgan in 65 that was in the $5K category. saw it first on David Lawrence, then eBay. Not sure if it ever sold.

illini420 · March 7, 2011 10:45AM

The only one I asked about was a common date boring white Morgan in MS64... probably worth around $65-$70 or so, but the dealer wanted $300 for it because of the holder... I considered that expensive, but I really don't know the market for these oddball holders

Didn't even ask prices on the others.

DRUNNER · March 7, 2011 11:25AM

Just lost my first response . . . . hope this doesn't 'double post'.

The Doilies Mike saw were in the hands of Katy (Revick Gaulston's mom). Revick sets up quite often with a great inventory and is a personable young dealer from the Pacific Northwest. Katy accompanies him to many shows and I got her interested in the Doilies when we shared a table at an Oregon show in 2009. She mainly hunts for fun Rattlers, but she now knows what a Doily is (and the premium) and is a formidable adversary when I try to secure them! Mike, she had two Morgans and a 1964-D 'Sample' Roosie in MS64. I ended up hauling them around to several dealers who had no clue what a Doily was (didn't take any of my own to the show).

Tom . .I think the one you are referring to is an 1890-CC (maybe I am wrong by a year???), and is also CAC-ed. It has popped up several times and you are in the ballpark on the price. Not sure if I want to go after it, although I hate to see one out there that I flinched on . . . . it was offered to me tonight (and I am grateful!).

As I had mentioned before on another post, I ransacked the Vegas show, and other than Katy's 3, there were no Doilies within the room. What was actually so stunning is that major dealers of certified coins (and I mean MANY of them) really have no idea what a Doily is. That might be good for me . . . .I can't wait to find a haul of 20 of them for bid less $5% !!!

Yeah . . . right.

Drunner
(Doilies can bring about world peace)

Moldnut · March 7, 2011 12:25PM

You are right when you say dealers dont know about the doilies! I was floored when I got that 1945 WLH for under $50 with a BIN on the bay last week.

Kove · March 7, 2011 6:58PM

I had the table next to Katy and Revick last week at the Coeur D'Alene show. Katy is extremely persuasive, and almost coaxed a couple of my doily commems out of me. She was really seeking doilies that were not dollars or dimes. I did get a little concerned when she mentioned how much money she has into the Morgan doilies, and I couldn't come anywhere near her price. Doily premiums (at least at auction) seem to be driven by a small group of people. If one or two of these folks get satiated with doilies or move on to another collecting interest, premiums (and resale value) will take a hit.

There are many sellers on eBay who don't know what a doily is, and I've had luck landing some doilies on BIN sales by good old-fashioned rummaging through dealers inventory. Invariably, the titles said nothing searchable like "doily" or "OGH" that would turn up in an eBay search--it's just a PCGS coin to the seller. I suppose this is just the eBay equivalent of DRUNNER searching through dealer stock coin by coin in Las Vegas. Finding an eBay seller with a few hundred slabs listed, and scanning their inventory for photos with the doily label, can still yield doilies for little premium. I'm sure there are several sellers on eBay with doilies that don't show up in standard doily or OGH searches, just waiting to be cherrypicked.

Kove

Billet7 · March 8, 2011 1:08AM

Broke the 200 mark today! I'm gonna have to figure out a spreadsheet method here pretty soon, just to keep things straight.

I agree that doily prices are driven by the few, but I can tell you, there used to just be a couple...and now there are a few. The pool of collectors has grown quite a bit. From what I have seen, there are a few handfuls that are hoarding them, but there are many, MANY more people who are starting to recognize how special and interesting the doily holder is. These people are not hoarding them, but they are getting one or two of them. This pool of people has grown significantly, probably thanks to the hoarders advertising and paying up for them.

Just some observations.

I have thought about altering the census so the samples have their own section, as Oreville suggested. I think it's a good idea, if no one is opposed, I will implement the change soon.

Updated!

DRUNNER · March 8, 2011 2:32AM

Kurt . . . . I wonder if you were the one I bought the 1814 Classic Head cent from (on the last day)???

I also wondered about Katy's pricing, and I think I alluded to that in an earlier post somewhere. After buying a couple of these, I am getting to where I know the pricing a bit, and I certainly won't argue that there is a degree of risk in paying anything above 'sheet' prices for generic coins (or any coins) in Doilies. But it is 'risk', not necessarily 'folly'. It may or may not pan out to be a financially rewarding aspect of numismatics, but the quest is certainly fun. I have come to a realization that there are limits to what I want to pay, and yet I find that if I stay with those limits, there seem to be others more than willing to outbid me in an open auction.

Also . . . . they may be a passing fad, a footnote to history, irrelevant, numismatic periphery, and widgets, but they sure seem to be hard for me to find! Perhaps I need to get out more!

Drunner
(Doily Maven to the Stars)

Kove · March 8, 2011 4:22AM

I'm of two competing views on where I hope the doily market goes from here, the 200-census point. On the one hand, sometimes I wish Steve Roach would write a Coin World article on doilies like he did for NGC blacks a few months ago. That would generate broader hobby interest in doily slabs, and could increase premiums for those of us who already own doilies. On the other hand, it would make it much harder to get the occasional cherrypick of a low-premium doily holder, and we'd all be paying a lot more for doilies if they really took off.

Kove · March 8, 2011 5:01AM

PM sent with several of my additions to the doily census.

Kove

Billet7 · March 9, 2011 4:20AM

Updated

mustanggt · March 10, 2011 1:28PM

Heres one more. Walker 1940 S, MS 64 (9126877)

blu62vette · March 18, 2011 1:18PM

illini420 · March 18, 2011 3:25PM

I saw Todd's new DMPL doily at the show today, very cool and a very very nice 64.

I only saw two other doily holdered coins in dealer cases at the ANA show. One was an MS65 Isabella Quarter that didn't really do too much for me and I thought it was too expensive.

The other was an MS63 Bay Bridge commemorative that was very very nice looking and easily looks like an MS65 to me. Would never send it for regrade of course

Might be a good candidate for a gold bean though, that would look neat

It was overpriced too, but I bought it

And I'm not sure if they did this on all of the older holders but it says "BAY BRDGE" on the holder. There was plenty of room for them to add the "I"

I wonder if that's a mistake?

1936 Bay Bridge 50c PCGS MS63 Cert No. 7345586

Kove · March 20, 2011 3:16AM

I bought a 1909 VBD Lincoln in 65RD in a doily holder out of a dealers case at the Sacramento ANA on dealer setup day. It never made my case, as I sold it on the way back to my table. I'll get the cert number for the census to see if it's a new one.

One point I want to note is that even though this coin was in a RD holder, the color had clearly mellowed in the 22 years since it was doily-slabbed. This is a good example of why PCGS changed their copper color guarantee. This doily slab is clearly the coin's final resting place, as it would make RB today.

If you come across a RD copper doily, be sure to note the color of the coin today, and negotiate pricing on the RB designation, not RD, if the coin warrants RB.

Kove

Billet7 · March 20, 2011 5:48AM

Kove, I appreciate your comments, and I think you hit the nail on the head. There are likely many copper pieces that will never leave old holders, because they will never retain their color designation. It's important to pay attention to the coin, not just what the holder says.

Thanks everyone for the contributions, I have just updated the census.

illini420 · March 28, 2011 3:26PM

<< I bought a 1909 VBD Lincoln in 65RD in a doily holder out of a dealers case at the Sacramento ANA on dealer setup day. It never made my case, as I sold it on the way back to my table. I'll get the cert number for the census to see if it's a new one. >>

A dealer showed that one to me on Friday at the show... wasn't for sale though. I would have probably scooped it up if you hadn't gotten in on set up day!! Would have kept it though for sure

Updated my earlier post to show pics of my Bay Bridge doily

Billet7 · March 29, 2011 1:34PM

Updated.

I must say, that's one nice lookin BAY BRDGE!!!

mrearlygold · March 31, 2011 12:01PM

Billet7 · March 31, 2011 2:36PM

Nice coin Tom...the oldest double eagle in the Census...and we have a new large cent just added. Now we are at a woppin' TWO!!!

illini420 · March 31, 2011 7:31PM

Just picked up an 1880 $5 gold in AU58

Looks pretty, especially in that doily slab

Cert No. 3130220

Will update with pics next time I break out the camera.

golfer72 · March 31, 2011 7:54PM

Yeah the Bay Bridge is definitely undergraded. Looks at least 65. Great coin!

illini420 · April 16, 2011 2:41PM

<< Just picked up an 1880 $5 gold in AU58

Looks pretty, especially in that doily slab

Cert No. 3130220

Will update with pics next time I break out the camera.

>>

Billet7 · April 18, 2011 7:52AM

I really like that 1880 fiver. Very nice doily.

1tommy · April 18, 2011 8:46AM

Just bought this last night, is this one of the old holders?

thanks

BAJJERFAN · April 18, 2011 8:52AM

<< Just bought this last night, is this one of the old holders?

thanks

>>

No, it doesn't appear to be either the 2.0, 2.5, 3.0[doily] or 3.5 variety of older holders.

toyz4geo · April 30, 2011 4:56AM

Got another one to post to the list. !883-O MS64 cert # 7306541. I will post a pic when I have the chance.
George

CoinCrazyPA · April 30, 2011 6:53AM

What is a decent price to pay for a common date Morgan in MS 64 and 65? I've seen a few for sale and don't want to over pay for the holder. Thanks Mike

DRUNNER · April 30, 2011 10:01AM

Mike . .

Wow . . lots of info here.

Just do an eBay history and you'll see. . . 64s and 65s are trading obviously above what you would call 'sheet' values, but even that begs the question, "Whose sheet?" Gray? PCGS (they are after all PCGS coins)?, Some other anonymous 'Doily' expert-sheet???

Hard to say . . . but looking back on eBay buys over the last 6 months will help you.

Doilies that are common (Mercs and Morgans) seem to have a standard value 'above' sheet, but get into a large cent, or a Standing Lib quarter, a Washie, or a Lib Nick . . .well, you are sort of on your own. On those exact four, I paid wayyyyy up for some, and just a token premium for others. On Morgans, I have paid from slightly below melt to substantially over 'sheet'.

The market is in a 'sorting out phase right now. We'll know more in 2-3 months.

Drunner
(Doily Maven)

CoinCrazyPA · April 30, 2011 10:36AM

Thanks for the advice, I did an ebay search and it will only go back a month. I did see a few that ended and a few currently listed FS. Not enough data to make a census on price, I will have to keep an eye out for more auction results.

oreville · April 30, 2011 2:57PM

<< The market is in a 'sorting out phase right now. We'll know more in 2-3 months. >>

Only the dealers who are buying and selling on a daily basis are able to keep up with the daily/weekly gyrations of the coin market pricing. It seems to be moving too fast for the rest of us. When prices move up too fast, they tend to overshoot their mark and then retreat a bit.

Prices paid by collectors on doily holdered silver Morgan dollars graded MS-63 and better in the past year or more will not recognize the current prices on the same silver dollars in ANY PCGS or NGC slab. Premiums on doily slabbed silver dollars become very difficult to determine creating what appears to be a chaotic condition.

Naturally, it is important for us to understand what I have written as I am still trying to figure it out as well.

19Lyds · May 1, 2011 4:02AM

Might as well add this 1983 DDR Lincoln to the list!

DRUNNER · May 1, 2011 5:00AM

Shucks . . missed that one.

I have the 1984 DDO listed in the Census . . would have made a nice pair.

Drunner

illini420 · May 4, 2011 10:38AM

cool looking DDR, not an insane price either.

was wondering if anyone else has a doily holder with a gold CAC sticker on it??? i just got one made

stealer · May 4, 2011 11:13AM

Half dime pattern that is made of copper with a trade design, I can't remember the date but I spotted it at a show recently and then it was on eBay for a short time.

Sorry for the lack of detail

19Lyds · May 11, 2011 1:55AM

Which one of you kind folks outbid me on this 1885-O ??

illini420 · May 13, 2011 6:11AM

Just got these in the mail today and I'm happy to have them back home safely

I would have bet that the commemorative would have gotten the gold and that the gold would have gotten the green... not the other way around, but I'm happy in any event

Here's some quickly done pics:

oreville · May 13, 2011 6:20AM

<< was wondering if anyone else has a doily holder with a gold CAC sticker on it??? i just got one made >>

I believe yours is the only one that has ever been gold stickered!

Doily Holder Census, 466 listed

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