<< <i> I wouldn't worry too much about that. Baltimore has been a coin show town because it's good for a coin show town, and the tax structure is way down on the reasons why. I'm sure Whitman is not so petty that a small change in the tax law that instead of just the many collectors spending less than $1,000/dealer needing to pay tax to the many collectors spending less than $1,000/dealer plus the few sometimes spending over $1,000/dealer would cause them to abandon ship. >>
Aegis-
You are usually the epitome of reason. Is anyone else struggling like I am to parse this? >>
A 7% tax on US Coin on a $1,500 transaction is $105, which can make or break a deal. I'd never buy a coin at a show if I had to pay sales tax. I don't travel to shows much anyway, but I wouldn't even consider going to one if I had to pay sales tax. And I doubt there would be much of a collecting audience for those Platinum Nights auctions if one had to pay an extra 7% on a three-figure coin.
Why are you making such a partisan comment? Coin and bullion exemptions have been passed and repealed in states controlled by both parties. Pennsylvania Gov. Edward Rendell, a Democrat, last year signed an extension of coin and bullion exemption after ICTA and dealers explained that such taxes result in a net loss for states. >>
An extension? I hadn't realized there was a sunset on PA coin sales tax emption. If that is the case, good for ICTA for explaining the benefits to Gov. Rendell. But you hit the nail on the head. Republicans, by instict, understand the problem with implementing a sales tax on coins. Democrats, like Gov. Rendell, need it explained to them why the States shouldn't reach our their hand a take a little something for themselves.
<< <i> Republicans, by instict, understand the problem with implementing a sales tax on coins. Democrats, like Gov. Rendell, need it explained to them why the States shouldn't reach our their hand a take a little something for themselves. >>
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) 7/11/2005
Rare-coin buyers lost their exemption to the state sales tax when the new two-year, $51 billion budget went into effect July First. An exemption for the sale of gold bullion also was repealed.
Senate President Bill Harris, a Republican, says the tax exemption was unnecessary and lawmakers were looking for ways to increase state revenues while restoring needed services.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
I live in a state (Oklahoma) where ALL coin and bullion sales are subject to sales tax. I must admit that while I don't particularly like paying an extra 8.5 cents on every coin dollar I spend locally I still think that they (and any other luxury item) should be subject to that tax--expecially as long as necessities such as food and medicine are subject to it.
I realize that there are no national shows in Oklahoma. This may actually be one of the reasons. I can think of a few better ones, though.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
<< <i>Senate President Bill Harris, a Republican, says the tax exemption was unnecessary and lawmakers were looking for ways to increase state revenues while restoring needed services. >>
He must be a RINO---Republican In Name Only.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Senate President Bill Harris, a Republican, says the tax exemption was unnecessary and lawmakers were looking for ways to increase state revenues while restoring needed services. >>
He must be a RINO---Republican In Name Only. >>
No, just another person. Party does not matter when talking about how much any government entity thinks it should receive--both sides of the aisle think it should all go to them. Party only matters when determining how that money gets spent.
Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
I have a list of the emails of the 10 sponsors of this and for the members of the Ways and Means Committee.
I will PM it to anyone who PMs me.
I don't want to post them here to avoid spam bots from picking them up (although, they probably already have.... but better to be conservative on this)
The relevant Maryland Statute §11–214.1. ...(a) In this section: ......(1) “precious metal bullion or coins” means: ............(i) any precious metal that has gone through a refining process and is in a state or condition such that its value depends on its precious metal content and not on its form; or ............(ii) except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, monetized bullion, coins, or other forms of money that: ..................1. are manufactured from precious metals; and ..................2. are or have in the past been used as a medium of exchange under the laws of the State, the United States, or a foreign nation; and ......(2) “precious metal bullion or coins” does not include jewelry or a work of art made of precious metal bullion or coins. ...(b) The sales and use tax does not apply to a sale of precious metal bullion or coins if the sale price is greater than $1,000.
Not surprisingly, this is a Democratic sponsored bill.
The Democratic legislators also sponsored and passed the original exemption. So...try being more objective when you blame people.
The problem is legislators in Maryland and many other states are trying to find ways to fill budget gaps, and looking at options that had once been "off the table." All of them - Republican or Democrat or Independent - have tough decisions to make. Nearly all will get a lot of flack no matter what they do.
<< <i>Not surprisingly, this is a Democratic sponsored bill.
The Democratic legislators also sponsored and passed the original exemption. So...try being more objective when you blame people.
The problem is legislators in Maryland and many other states are trying to find ways to fill budget gaps, and looking at options that had once been "off the table." All of them - Republican or Democrat or Independent - have tough decisions to make. Nearly all will get a lot of flack no matter what they do. >>
I guess it would be unreasonable to just cut spending.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Cutting spending is on the block, too, in every state that has a deficit. But it’s not a superficial or simple task – the legislatures that put aside dogma and concentrate on pragmatic decisions, will come out ahead....But, that is very hard to do and requires reasonableness, trust and placing the fundamental Constitutional idea of "We the people..." first - ahead of superficial demagogues, pundits and fear mongers.
No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Not surprisingly, this is a Democratic sponsored bill.
The Democratic legislators also sponsored and passed the original exemption. So...try being more objective when you blame people.
The problem is legislators in Maryland and many other states are trying to find ways to fill budget gaps, and looking at options that had once been "off the table." All of them - Republican or Democrat or Independent - have tough decisions to make. Nearly all will get a lot of flack no matter what they do. >>
Not that I don't believe you, I haven't written yet, and I'd like to include that fact when I write in.
<< <i>No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
1 word:
waste.
I think gov'ts are suckered left and right by the populace (e.g. tax fraud) and corps (milking the gov't contracts)
I think the gov't needs some incentive to root out waste. I think now is the time and this crisis is the incentive.
I'd feel a lot better about paying up a bit more if I didn't think there was wasted money out there to be found.
<< <i>No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
PS: you might find my take on the thing an intriguing view.
In short, I submit three reasons to oppose HB 206 and the repeal: 1. Bullion, in $1,000 and more quantities, are investments, and shouldn't have a sales tax. 2. Investments are already taxed via the income tax, and levying a sales tax would amount to double taxation. 3. This would backfire if repealed, as the sales would find lower cost venues in other states, further hurting the ecomony of Maryland.
<< <i>No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
The piper? as in the public sector unions???? Feel free to send the U.S. Govt a check Sir Longacre. I for one, have had enough of higher taxes.....CUT SPENDING NOW!!!
<< <i>No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
The piper? as in the public sector unions???? Feel free to send the U.S. Govt a check Sir Longacre. I for one, have had enough of higher taxes.....CUT SPENDING NOW!!! >>
thank you so much for contacting me. This bill has already been heard in Ways and Means and now it is in sub-committee. If it comes back to committee for a vote, I will be voting against this bill. I have heard from many folks concerning this bill and I feel that it would be detrimental to the economy of Baltimore and Maryland as a whole.
<< <i>No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
Texas collects about $40 billion in sales taxes a year, and loses $62 billion through exemptions, some of them pointless like "tax free clothing weekends" intending to help parents buy a $9 pair of jeans for their kids at Walmart, but also applies to an $80 shirt from Neiman Marcus for an adult.
I once saw a homeless man counting out his 8 cents sales tax on 99 cent McDonalds value hamburger. He was taxed because he was eating at a restaurant. About an hour later, I was at Whole Foods, and saw a guy's MAID getting a shopping cart full of crab legs, expensive steaks, and pay not ONE CENT in sales tax, because Texas law exempts food bought at a grocery store and cooked at home.
I don't think converting paper money to gold or silver bullion coins should be a taxed event...but I have had customers at my retail store who make over $1 million a year complain about paying $4.03 sales tax on a collector coin, because "I collect coins for enjoyment, and if I have to pay sales tax, I can't enjoy them."
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>All you MD dealers are going to be good this march and charge MD sales tax, right?
Hate to have delegate spies in there noting cash transactions are going down without the tax collection..... >>
This MD dealer charges sales tax on all sales under $1000.
PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows. I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
I wouldn't worry too much about that. Baltimore has been a coin show town because it's good for a coin show town, and the tax structure is way down on the reasons why. I'm sure Whitman is not so petty that a small change in the tax law that instead of just the many collectors spending less than $1,000/dealer needing to pay tax to the many collectors spending less than $1,000/dealer plus the few sometimes spending over $1,000/dealer would cause them to abandon ship. >>
Aegis-
You are usually the epitome of reason. Is anyone else struggling like I am to parse this? >>
A 7% tax on US Coin on a $1,500 transaction is $105, which can make or break a deal. I'd never buy a coin at a show if I had to pay sales tax. I don't travel to shows much anyway, but I wouldn't even consider going to one if I had to pay sales tax. And I doubt there would be much of a collecting audience for those Platinum Nights auctions if one had to pay an extra 7% on a three-figure coin.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why do democrats hate numismatics!?! >>
Why are you making such a partisan comment? Coin and bullion exemptions have been passed and repealed in states controlled by both parties.
Pennsylvania Gov. Edward Rendell, a Democrat, last year signed an extension of coin and bullion exemption after ICTA and dealers explained
that such taxes result in a net loss for states. >>
An extension? I hadn't realized there was a sunset on PA coin sales tax emption. If that is the case, good for ICTA for explaining the benefits to Gov. Rendell. But you hit the nail on the head. Republicans, by instict, understand the problem with implementing a sales tax on coins. Democrats, like Gov. Rendell, need it explained to them why the States shouldn't reach our their hand a take a little something for themselves.
<< <i>Any idea if it passed? >>
NO action reported yet at the Md. State Legislature website. Apparently the administrator of the site doesn't update action on a real time basis.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i> Republicans, by instict, understand the problem with implementing a sales tax on coins. Democrats, like Gov. Rendell, need it explained to them why the States shouldn't reach our their hand a take a little something for themselves. >>
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) 7/11/2005
Rare-coin buyers lost their exemption to the state sales tax when the new two-year, $51 billion budget went into effect July First. An exemption for the sale of gold bullion also was repealed.
Senate President Bill Harris, a Republican, says the tax exemption was unnecessary and lawmakers were looking for ways to increase state revenues while restoring needed services.
I realize that there are no national shows in Oklahoma. This may actually be one of the reasons. I can think of a few better ones, though.
<< <i>Senate President Bill Harris, a Republican, says the tax exemption was unnecessary and lawmakers were looking for ways to increase state revenues while restoring needed services. >>
He must be a RINO---Republican In Name Only.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>An exemption for the sale of gold bullion also was repealed. >>
What's next? Sales tax on stocks and bonds?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
<< <i>Senate President Bill Harris, a Republican, says the tax exemption was unnecessary and lawmakers were looking for ways to increase state revenues while restoring needed services. >>
He must be a RINO---Republican In Name Only. >>
No, just another person. Party does not matter when talking about how much any government entity thinks it should receive--both sides of the aisle think it should all go to them. Party only matters when determining how that money gets spent.
I will PM it to anyone who PMs me.
I don't want to post them here to avoid spam bots from picking them up (although, they probably already have.... but better to be conservative on this)
§11–214.1.
...(a) In this section:
......(1) “precious metal bullion or coins” means:
............(i) any precious metal that has gone through a refining process and is in a state or condition such that its value depends on its precious metal content and not on its form; or
............(ii) except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, monetized bullion, coins, or other forms of money that:
..................1. are manufactured from precious metals; and
..................2. are or have in the past been used as a medium of exchange under the laws of the State, the United States, or a foreign nation; and
......(2) “precious metal bullion or coins” does not include jewelry or a work of art made of precious metal bullion or coins.
...(b) The sales and use tax does not apply to a sale of precious metal bullion or coins if the sale price is greater than $1,000.
FYI, the MD House of Delegates has Dems outnumbering Reps by more than 2 to 1.
So, without getting too political here, I think it's going to take people speaking out to put an end to this.
The Democratic legislators also sponsored and passed the original exemption. So...try being more objective when you blame people.
The problem is legislators in Maryland and many other states are trying to find ways to fill budget gaps, and looking at options that had once been "off the table." All of them - Republican or Democrat or Independent - have tough decisions to make. Nearly all will get a lot of flack no matter what they do.
<< <i>Not surprisingly, this is a Democratic sponsored bill.
The Democratic legislators also sponsored and passed the original exemption. So...try being more objective when you blame people.
The problem is legislators in Maryland and many other states are trying to find ways to fill budget gaps, and looking at options that had once been "off the table." All of them - Republican or Democrat or Independent - have tough decisions to make. Nearly all will get a lot of flack no matter what they do. >>
I guess it would be unreasonable to just cut spending.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Not surprisingly, this is a Democratic sponsored bill.
The Democratic legislators also sponsored and passed the original exemption. So...try being more objective when you blame people.
The problem is legislators in Maryland and many other states are trying to find ways to fill budget gaps, and looking at options that had once been "off the table." All of them - Republican or Democrat or Independent - have tough decisions to make. Nearly all will get a lot of flack no matter what they do. >>
Not that I don't believe you, I haven't written yet, and I'd like to include that fact when I write in.
do you have a URL for that?
<< <i>No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
1 word:
waste.
I think gov'ts are suckered left and right by the populace (e.g. tax fraud) and corps (milking the gov't contracts)
I think the gov't needs some incentive to root out waste. I think now is the time and this crisis is the incentive.
I'd feel a lot better about paying up a bit more if I didn't think there was wasted money out there to be found.
<< <i>Not surprisingly, this is a Democratic sponsored bill.
The Democratic legislators also sponsored and passed the original exemption. >>
I was too quick to criticize without the facts. I'm actually a registered complainer.(independant)
<< <i>No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
PS: you might find my take on the thing an intriguing view.
I'll post it when done.
included the repeal of 11-214.1
13 BY repealing
14 Article - Tax - General
15 Section 11-104(d), 11-202, 11-210, 11-212, 11-213, 11-214.1, 11-217,and 11-222
16 Annotated Code of Maryland
17 (1988 Volume and 1995 Supplement)
1. Bullion, in $1,000 and more quantities, are investments, and shouldn't have a sales tax.
2. Investments are already taxed via the income tax, and levying a sales tax would amount to double taxation.
3. This would backfire if repealed, as the sales would find lower cost venues in other states, further hurting the ecomony of Maryland.
<< <i>She's from a Navy town... of course she's a Republican and of course she replied!
This is her work address in the State Capital:
Delegate Kathy Afzali
Maryland District 4A
Suite 319 - Lowe's Building
6 Bladen Street
Annapolis, MD 21401
410-841-3288
She is actually from the part of MD west of DC and Baltimore.
While the State does tend towards Dems, that part of MD tends towards Reps.
<< <i>No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
The piper? as in the public sector unions????
Feel free to send the U.S. Govt a check Sir Longacre.
I for one, have had enough of higher taxes.....CUT SPENDING NOW!!!
Hate to have delegate spies in there noting cash transactions are going down without the tax collection.....
<< <i>
<< <i>No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
The piper? as in the public sector unions????
Feel free to send the U.S. Govt a check Sir Longacre.
I for one, have had enough of higher taxes.....CUT SPENDING NOW!!! >>
The big piper....
The National Loonacy Debt.
<< <i>I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
I am confident I have already paid the piper handsomely. You are welcome to volunteer more of your own, if that is your wish.
Just curious... how much more are you willing to volunteer?
<< <i>All you MD dealers are going to be good this march and charge MD sales tax, right? >>
Doesn't it depend on whether the customer pays with cash or by check?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
thank you so much for contacting me. This bill has already been heard in Ways and Means and now it is in sub-committee. If it comes back to committee for a vote, I will be voting against this bill. I have heard from many folks concerning this bill and I feel that it would be detrimental to the economy of Baltimore and Maryland as a whole.
<< <i>No one dislikes paying taxes more than Longacre, but given the fiscal crisis that we are in, when will things ever get better if we continue to refuse to pay a little bit more and do our share? I think in general we are long overdue to pay the piper. >>
Texas collects about $40 billion in sales taxes a year, and loses $62 billion through exemptions, some of them pointless like
"tax free clothing weekends" intending to help parents buy a $9 pair of jeans for their kids at Walmart, but also applies to
an $80 shirt from Neiman Marcus for an adult.
I once saw a homeless man counting out his 8 cents sales tax on 99 cent McDonalds value hamburger.
He was taxed because he was eating at a restaurant. About an hour later, I was at Whole Foods, and saw a guy's MAID
getting a shopping cart full of crab legs, expensive steaks, and pay not ONE CENT in sales tax, because Texas law exempts
food bought at a grocery store and cooked at home.
I don't think converting paper money to gold or silver bullion coins should be a taxed event...but I have had customers
at my retail store who make over $1 million a year complain about paying $4.03 sales tax on a collector coin, because
"I collect coins for enjoyment, and if I have to pay sales tax, I can't enjoy them."
<< <i>All you MD dealers are going to be good this march and charge MD sales tax, right?
Hate to have delegate spies in there noting cash transactions are going down without the tax collection..... >>
This MD dealer charges sales tax on all sales under $1000.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
<< <i>
<< <i>All you MD dealers are going to be good this march and charge MD sales tax, right?
Hate to have delegate spies in there noting cash transactions are going down without the tax collection..... >>
This MD dealer charges sales tax on all sales under $1000. >>
Although I am not a MD dealer, when I am at a show in MD, I pay sales tax on all retail sales under $1,000.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.