<< <i>I rememeber about 10 years ago, after the Sacagawea/Washington mules had been around for a bit. Some had already sold for around $50,000 . About two weeks before another one was going up for sale at a major public auction, there was a report in Coin World from a coin shop owner. The owner stated that a woman had come in and showed the owner a couple dozen of the error coins. The owner, not 100% certain if they were genuine, offered $500 each. The woman declined and was never heard from again.
Two weeks later, the coin at auction sold for a price considerably less than earlier sales. Prices appeared to have rebounded to prior levels shortly after that auction.
Hmm... >>
I remember that incident. Certain people do play games.
Daniel, is it possible that the so-called "haters" who have allegedly been knocking the 1964-D's off of eBay are just this one fan of your 1964-D's who is trying to buy them up by sabotaging eBay sales?
If that is true, and it certainly remains to be proven, the people who keep throwing the "hater" hand grenades need to reconsider whom they are upset with.
TD >>
A so-called hater has already come on this board to admit getting those eBay auctions cancelled, so, no. And the other, Ryan character, has not shown himself to be any type of fan at all. He seems perfectly neutral. >>
You think so? Sounds to me like this Ryan character is trying to drive the price down so he can buy them up, but I may be wrong. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Just got another eBay message from this "person". Don't know why he said good to hear from you again. I sent him no communication. Maybe he is sending out so many messages he forgets. I thought you guys would like to see his latest: Hey Ed, Good to hear from you again. We were told today that Moonlight Mint, the mint that struck Daniel Carr's Peace Dollars and other fantasy pieces designed by him is not 100% owned by him. We were told he may not own any of it or a very small share. Either way, doesn't matter now as the boss (my Dad) says we are not buying or selling the items. I was told I could buy/sell them on my own, but not with corporate money or use any of the coporate assets to buy/sell the items. With that said you may hear from me again. The general thoughts are the items will peak as collectors think the will continue to rise in price, sellers will bail out and the prices will drop like a rock. I guess my thoughts would be buyer beware as the only thing rarer could be the buyer! Hope to talk to you again soon. Thanks, Ryan Fannon bfannon65@hotmail.com - bfannon65
What a piece of work this guy is!!! >>
What an odd person this guy is. Doesn't sound like he has one good intention either. Seems like he may be trying to drive prices down and scare people into dumping the coins in fear to him? It also makes no sense to me why it would matter who or what owns Moonlight Mint. What does that have to do with anything anyway????
<< <i>I'm sure Ryan thinks he is quite the clever one. >>
A goofball can think he's clever all day long, but that's meaningless. He's clearly libeled Daniel Carr in several instances, which is actionable. >>
I believe if you read my previous posts, I'm right there with ya, bud.
Maybe crafty is a better word:
Defined: •marked by skill in deception; "cunning men often pass for wise"; "deep political machinations"; "a foxy scheme"; "a slick evasive answer"; "sly as a fox"; "tricky Dick"; "a wily old attorney"
His Daddy needs to watch after his boy.
It doesn't make him smart, as he has possibly opened himself up to exposure. That's up to D Carr to pursue.
<< <i>I'm sure Ryan thinks he is quite the clever one. >>
A goofball can think he's clever all day long, but that's meaningless. He's clearly libeled Daniel Carr in several instances, which is actionable. >>
I believe if you read my previous posts, I'm right there with ya, bud.
Maybe crafty is a better word:
Defined: •marked by skill in deception; "cunning men often pass for wise"; "deep political machinations"; "a foxy scheme"; "a slick evasive answer"; "sly as a fox"; "tricky Dick"; "a wily old attorney"
His Daddy needs to watch after his boy.
It doesn't make him smart, as he has possibly opened himself up to exposure. That's up to D Carr to pursue. >>
Indeed, his dad's business itself could be liable for damages, since he used the name and contact info.
Not sure if I should throw this goofball under the eBay bus or not. Maybe wait a little longer and see if he adds more lies to the pile and dig himself in deeper. I hate to respond to him anymore but I know if I ask the right questions he will probably bury himself. I'll think about it.
successful BST deals with Meltdown, Broadstruck, lordmarcovan, MisterTicToc, JINX86, BXBOY143, MBCOINS and others
<< <i>Not sure if I should throw this goofball under the eBay bus or not. Maybe wait a little longer and see if he adds more lies to the pile and dig himself in deeper. I hate to respond to him anymore but I know if I ask the right questions he will probably bury himself. I'll think about it. >>
Yes, please throw him under the "eBay Bus" at your convenience.
I'm not going to do anything unless it escalates or continues on for a while longer.
<< <i>We were told today that Moonlight Mint, the mint that struck Daniel Carr's Peace Dollars and other fantasy pieces designed by him is not 100% owned by him. >>
I take it Daniel is married? >>
Well yes, there is that spousal aspect. But she isn't interested in the "man cave".
Unbelievable... obviously an immature and intellectually deficient individual who thinks he is a master manipulator, attempting something that in his limited imagination will in some way reap benefits. Sad. Cheers, RickO
As sure as the sun rises and sets, you will hear from him again.
The general thoughts are the items will peak as collectors think the will continue to rise in price, sellers will bail out and the prices will drop like a rock.
(Note the keen sense of market timing......)
I guess my thoughts would be buyer beware as the only thing rarer could be the buyer!
So, he's stating that the coins are rare? Wow, I had no idea! This guy's a wizard of a coin analyst.
That's a great reason to dump them in a hurry!!!
Hope to talk to you again soon.
Ed, you are doing us a service.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
This item is turning into a piece of performance art. I'm guessing the best outcome here for Dan and owners of the overstriking is that the outed dealer meets with failure in his attempts and screws up his own reputation in the process. If he ends up in court, you can bet that terms like "essentially a counterfeiting operation" will come up.
the D.Carr Peace Dollar controversy will seemingly never end ........... lets get them all to the top until everyone has has their fill and are plumb sick of the issue
<< <i>I rememeber about 10 years ago, after the Sacagawea/Washington mules had been around for a bit. Some had already sold for around $50,000 . About two weeks before another one was going up for sale at a major public auction, there was a report in Coin World from a coin shop owner. The owner stated that a woman had come in and showed the owner a couple dozen of the error coins. The owner, not 100% certain if they were genuine, offered $500 each. The woman declined and was never heard from again.
Two weeks later, the coin at auction sold for a price considerably less than earlier sales. Prices appeared to have rebounded to prior levels shortly after that auction.
Hmm... >>
I have started a thread to see if we can flush out a name on that old report. Just curious........ >>
Fred Weinberg has responded to the other thread with info. The alleged dealer (who Fred says nobody had ever heard of before or ever heard of after the event) who reported the non-existant hoard was from Michigan, so I doubt if there is any connection to the false eBay reports regarding 1964-D dollars. False alarm. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Daniel--consider him thrown under the eBay bus, but we'll never know what the outcome is due to their policy as stated below::
"Thank you. Your report has been sent We appreciate your effort to help us maintain a safe trading environment. eBay takes all reports seriously. We will investigate your report and take the appropriate action, based on the information that you have submitted and information gathered from other sources.
Please note that we cannot respond to you with the result of our investigation due to privacy rules.If you have other concerns or questions, Contact Us
Thank you for helping make eBay a safe online marketplace."
successful BST deals with Meltdown, Broadstruck, lordmarcovan, MisterTicToc, JINX86, BXBOY143, MBCOINS and others
Well, I guess he heard from eBay. Here is his ridiculous response to me about it:
"Ed, I made NO libelous comments concerting Mr. Carr. If you took my observations in that manner, I am very sorry. I was only telling you want we were hearing concerning the Moonlight Mint. Nothing was aimed at Mr. Carr personally. Ryan
- bfannon65"
successful BST deals with Meltdown, Broadstruck, lordmarcovan, MisterTicToc, JINX86, BXBOY143, MBCOINS and others
...and yet another; this guy just doesn't know when to quit or how to spell for that matter:
"Ed, My 2nd reponse to your previous email, after I took a minute to reflect and also read the other emails between us. I DO NOT find anything in any of the emails that suggests I think Mr. Carr has done or is involved in anything wrong. I was simply stating the facts as both you and others presented them to us. Again, very sorry if I offended you in any way! Ryan"
successful BST deals with Meltdown, Broadstruck, lordmarcovan, MisterTicToc, JINX86, BXBOY143, MBCOINS and others
Earlier today I emailed this person Ryan per the email provided in the emails copied by our member mrcoin3:
Hello Ryan,
I have been reading a thread in the Collector's Universe Forums that has what appears to be your name and your father's business mentioned quite a few times. You may find the following link interesting:
Is this you? If so, do you have a comment to make concerning the statements apparently you have made by email to others? I am interested in what basis you have for the slanderous claims you make against Daniel Carr and the Moonlight Mint. What facts do you have to support your statements? Also, I read them as you are trying to conduct business outside of eBay which is clearly a violation of their rules.
Lastly, and quite frankly.....what are you trying to accomplish through those emails? For what my opinion is worth, you should tread a little bit more lightly my friend.
Michael
----------------------
In response I received this email:
Sir, I am in receipt of your email send to my email address and beginning Hello Ryan. Enclosed in the email is a link to a thread in a forum in Collector's Universe Forums. It goes on to state that Ryan's name and his father's business is mentioned quite a few times. It then asks the question "Is the you?" It further implies that I may be quilty of some slanderous claims made against one Daniel Carr and/or Moonlight Mint. It then asks what my intentions are and mentions conducting business outside of eBay and then seems to make a threat against me! Let me address the issues brought up in your email. First, I have no idea what you are talking about. I am having our computer people look at all the computers in our offices to see it the aforementioned emails did, in fact, come from someone in our offices using our equipment. Yes, I have a son Ryan. He does work for one or more of the family businesses, but he has been out of town on business since Wednesday Feb. 9. If someone here is using either our personal email or our business email IP addresses, we will find out who, when and why. I personally do not know Mr. Carr, but as most people in the coin industry, do know who he is and would in no way do any thing to tarnish his image. I know him to be an extremely skilled designer and craftsman. From your email, nor from the link you sent me can I determine which of Mr. Carr's items are in question. I also do not know who you are, therefore I do not know whether to thank you for alerting us to something that may be happening here or treat the email as a threat? Hopefully it is the first. If you think we should discuss this matter more, please feel free to call me at any time. My cell is xxxxxxxxxxx and will be happy to discuss any questions and/or problems with you or Mr. Carr.
Bill Fannon
----------------
At this very moment, I do not personally know what to think, except that my intent was to try and help and try to get some facts around this situation. I x'd out Mr. Fannon's cell phone for privacy and hope that I am not stirring up the issue, but honestly feel that at the very least, the other side of this thread is being represented. I just do not know exactly what it means though!
<< <i>Earlier today I emailed this person Ryan per the email provided in the emails copied by our member mrcoin3:
Hello Ryan,
I have been reading a thread in the Collector's Universe Forums that has what appears to be your name and your father's business mentioned quite a few times. You may find the following link interesting:
Is this you? If so, do you have a comment to make concerning the statements apparently you have made by email to others? I am interested in what basis you have for the slanderous claims you make against Daniel Carr and the Moonlight Mint. What facts do you have to support your statements? Also, I read them as you are trying to conduct business outside of eBay which is clearly a violation of their rules.
Lastly, and quite frankly.....what are you trying to accomplish through those emails? For what my opinion is worth, you should tread a little bit more lightly my friend.
Michael
----------------------
In response I received this email:
Mr. Michael Skourtes: Sir, I am in receipt of your email send to my email address and beginning Hello Ryan. Enclosed in the email is a link to a thread in a forum in Collector's Universe Forums. It goes on to state that Ryan's name and his father's business is mentioned quite a few times. It then asks the question "Is the you?" It further implies that I may be quilty of some slanderous claims made against one Daniel Carr and/or Moonlight Mint. It then asks what my intentions are and mentions conducting business outside of eBay and then seems to make a threat against me! Let me address the issues brought up in your email. First, I have no idea what you are talking about. I am having our computer people look at all the computers in our offices to see it the aforementioned emails did, in fact, come from someone in our offices using our equipment. Yes, I have a son Ryan. He does work for one or more of the family businesses, but he has been out of town on business since Wednesday Feb. 9. If someone here is using either our personal email or our business email IP addresses, we will find out who, when and why. I personally do not know Mr. Carr, but as most people in the coin industry, do know who he is and would in no way do any thing to tarnish his image. I know him to be an extremely skilled designer and craftsman. From your email, nor from the link you sent me can I determine which of Mr. Carr's items are in question. I also do not know who you are Mr. Skourtes, therefore I do not know whether to thank you for alerting us to something that may be happening here or treat the email as a threat? Hopefully it is the first. If you think we should discuss this matter more, please feel free to call me at any time. My cell is xxxxxxxxxxx and will be happy to discuss any questions and/or problems with you or Mr. Carr.
Bill Fannon
----------------
At this very moment, I do not personally know what to think, except that my intent was to try and help and try to get some facts around this situation. I x'd out Mr. Fannon's cell phone for privacy and hope that I am not stirring up the issue, but honestly feel that at the very least, the other side of this thread is being represented. I just do not know exactly what it means though! >>
I don't know what to think of his email either, but I do know that this is shaping up to be a very entertaining thread. I almost feel like I need to get a lawyer just to read the darn thing. LOL.
<< <i>Well, I guess he heard from eBay. Here is his ridiculous response to me about it:
"Ed, I made NO libelous comments concerting Mr. Carr. If you took my observations in that manner, I am very sorry. I was only telling you want we were hearing concerning the Moonlight Mint. Nothing was aimed at Mr. Carr personally. Ryan
- bfannon65" >>
I was under the impression that eBay reports were anonomous to the listing owner being reported?
How'd he tie you to the report? (provided eBay even responded so quickly)
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Good question 19. I'm not sure how he did it either. Unless he sent that reply to everyone he contacted. Edited to add; In one of his eBay messages he did state the he had an inside person at eBay. Not that I believed it.
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Paul--After re-reading Daddy's lame response to Constantine's inquiry it is apparent, to me anyway, that the old saying..."the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"..... is a very good fit for this situation.
successful BST deals with Meltdown, Broadstruck, lordmarcovan, MisterTicToc, JINX86, BXBOY143, MBCOINS and others
<< <i>Paul--After re-reading Daddy's lame response to Constantine's inquiry it is apparent, to me anyway, that the old saying..."the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"..... is a very good fit for this situation. >>
What if the son has been sending messages, without his father being aware of it? That sounds plausible, and if that is the case, the father's reply seems perfectly reasonable and appropriate.
<< <i>Paul--After re-reading Daddy's lame response to Constantine's inquiry it is apparent, to me anyway, that the old saying..."the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"..... is a very good fit for this situation. >>
What if the son has been sending messages, without his father being aware of it? That sounds plausible, and if that is the case, the father's reply seems perfectly reasonable and appropriate. >>
I suppose you could what if it to death.... What if the father was doing it all on his own under his sons name, while the innocent son is out of town on business??? What if the x-girlfriend of the fathers next door neighbor did it? What if..... What if ...... What if......
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It could be, but what was written doesn't read like that possibility is even considered by the father. I find the lack of consideration of that real and easy possibility odd.
What is your bottom dollar? We have purchased several Type 2 versions also, but will have to check to see what we paid for those. Feel free to contact us via email, bfannon65@hotmail.com, or you can call Bill on his cell at 423-626-1405. Bill (my father) is in and out of the offices but is well aware of what were are doing for the customer. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts of these items. When we were first approached about buying a 10+ pc group, were a little hesitate as did not know what Uncle Sam's view would be. Thanks and look forward to hearing from you, Ryan Fannon@BFRC.
Then this one...... We can do PayPal and "gifting" is no problem with, we can overnight funds, or we can do a direct bank wire. We will leave that up to you. Either form of shipping is fine, USPS is probably a little cheaper, but again whatever is best with you. I agree, sometimes difficult to do business with a new guy, and I'm sure you have probably never heard of us. We owned National Gold Exchange in Tampa before selling it to Mark Yaffe, who ran it in the ground. We currently do business as Bill Fannon Rare Coin in Tennessee and Carolina Gold and Silver in North Carolina. 2010's sales exceeded $100 million, so we are a very stable firm and always welcome new business. If you prefer you can call Bill on his cell at 423-626-1405. Look forward to hearing from you!
" or you can call Bill on his cell at 423-626-1405. Bill (my father) is in and out of the offices but is well aware of what were are doing for the customer "
it would be quite odd for the son , or someone impersonating the son , to use the fathers email address and the fathers personal cell phone # ,
and to draw a conclusion that the father had no idea of what was going on .
<< <i>OK Mr Feld.......time for the "what if".......... >>
What if, instead of speculating unnecessarily, you call the gentleman and discuss the matter with him. Without additional facts, I stand by my previous comment that his reply sounds perfectly reasonable and appropriate.
Mark--Calling him would not bring out any facts. It would only bring out what ever he decides to say. Statements made by by Ryan so far about Moonlight and Daniel are far from factual statements, therefore ........well you get the idea I'm sure. Apple/tree.
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<< <i>Mark--Calling him would not bring out any facts. It would only bring out what ever he decides to say. Statements made by by Ryan so far about Moonlight and Daniel are far from factual statements, therefore ........well you get the idea I'm sure. Apple/tree. >>
If you grill him properly (on the phone, not in the oven), you should be able to determine whether his email was truthful or not. I am not yet convinced that he was lying. If you are, so be it.
<< <i>OK Mr Feld.......time for the "what if".......... >>
What if, instead of speculating unnecessarily, you call the gentleman and discuss the matter with him. Without additional facts, I stand by my previous comment that his reply sounds perfectly reasonable and appropriate. >>
I dunno, the whole thing is odd. I will point out again my email I posted in this thread was received by Bill the dad. I thought it was pretty darn clear what the issue was and did provide the link here with further detail. His response could have been from genuine confusion, or complete denial due to fear of any trouble. Interesting point to make is when Bill says in his response to me "From your email, nor from the link you sent me can I determine which of Mr. Carr's items are in question."
Well......the subject of my email was " D Carr Peace Dollar Thread" and it says Peace Dollar many times on this thread too!
Any rate, it sounds like son and dad need to talk and I bet that will clear up any confusion on his part.
libel n. 1 Law a) a published false statement damaging to a person's reputation. b) the act of publishing this. 2 a) a false and defamatory written statement b) a thing that brings discredit by misrepresentation etc.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Yep, the "F for Fake" film has congruences to these issues, like how Bill Fannon plays dumb on son Ryan's prevarications, which concerns the "fantasy" Peace dollar, all questions of authorship and authenticity.
My peace dollar sold today on eBay for over $400 without any assistance or further interference from the Fannon price manipulation department. The coin is on it's way to a California collector. Oh yeah, I blocked bfannon65 too. Case closed.
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"... all [art] experts operate largely on bluff." >>
I thought that was "Pawn Stars!"
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I rememeber about 10 years ago, after the Sacagawea/Washington mules had been around for a bit.
Some had already sold for around $50,000 . About two weeks before another one was going up
for sale at a major public auction, there was a report in Coin World from a coin shop owner.
The owner stated that a woman had come in and showed the owner a couple dozen of the error coins.
The owner, not 100% certain if they were genuine, offered $500 each. The woman declined and
was never heard from again.
Two weeks later, the coin at auction sold for a price considerably less than earlier sales.
Prices appeared to have rebounded to prior levels shortly after that auction.
Hmm... >>
I remember that incident. Certain people do play games.
Daniel, is it possible that the so-called "haters" who have allegedly been knocking the 1964-D's off of eBay are just this one fan of your 1964-D's who is trying to buy them up by sabotaging eBay sales?
If that is true, and it certainly remains to be proven, the people who keep throwing the "hater" hand grenades need to reconsider whom they are upset with.
TD >>
A so-called hater has already come on this board to admit getting those eBay auctions cancelled, so, no.
And the other, Ryan character, has not shown himself to be any type of fan at all. He seems perfectly neutral. >>
You think so? Sounds to me like this Ryan character is trying to drive the price down so he can buy them up, but I may be wrong.
TD
<< <i>Just got another eBay message from this "person". Don't know why he said good to hear from you again. I sent him no communication. Maybe he is sending out so many messages he forgets. I thought you guys would like to see his latest:
Hey Ed, Good to hear from you again. We were told today that Moonlight Mint, the mint that struck Daniel Carr's Peace Dollars and other fantasy pieces designed by him is not 100% owned by him. We were told he may not own any of it or a very small share. Either way, doesn't matter now as the boss (my Dad) says we are not buying or selling the items. I was told I could buy/sell them on my own, but not with corporate money or use any of the coporate assets to buy/sell the items. With that said you may hear from me again. The general thoughts are the items will peak as collectors think the will continue to rise in price, sellers will bail out and the prices will drop like a rock. I guess my thoughts would be buyer beware as the only thing rarer could be the buyer! Hope to talk to you again soon. Thanks, Ryan Fannon bfannon65@hotmail.com - bfannon65
What a piece of work this guy is!!! >>
What an odd person this guy is. Doesn't sound like he has one good intention either. Seems like he may be trying to drive prices down and scare people into dumping the coins in fear to him? It also makes no sense to me why it would matter who or what owns Moonlight Mint. What does that have to do with anything anyway????
This doesn't bode well for his future in the industry.
<< <i>I'm sure Ryan thinks he is quite the clever one. >>
A goofball can think he's clever all day long, but that's meaningless.
He's clearly libeled Daniel Carr in several instances, which is actionable.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm sure Ryan thinks he is quite the clever one. >>
A goofball can think he's clever all day long, but that's meaningless.
He's clearly libeled Daniel Carr in several instances, which is actionable. >>
Maybe crafty is a better word:
Defined: •marked by skill in deception; "cunning men often pass for wise"; "deep political machinations"; "a foxy scheme"; "a slick evasive answer"; "sly as a fox"; "tricky Dick"; "a wily old attorney"
His Daddy needs to watch after his boy.
It doesn't make him smart, as he has possibly opened himself up to exposure. That's up to D Carr to pursue.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm sure Ryan thinks he is quite the clever one. >>
A goofball can think he's clever all day long, but that's meaningless.
He's clearly libeled Daniel Carr in several instances, which is actionable. >>
Maybe crafty is a better word:
Defined: •marked by skill in deception; "cunning men often pass for wise"; "deep political machinations"; "a foxy scheme"; "a slick evasive answer"; "sly as a fox"; "tricky Dick"; "a wily old attorney"
His Daddy needs to watch after his boy.
It doesn't make him smart, as he has possibly opened himself up to exposure. That's up to D Carr to pursue. >>
Indeed, his dad's business itself could be liable for damages, since he used the name and contact info.
Maybe wait a little longer and see if he adds more lies to the pile and dig himself in deeper.
I hate to respond to him anymore but I know if I ask the right questions he will probably bury himself.
I'll think about it.
<< <i>Not sure if I should throw this goofball under the eBay bus or not.
Maybe wait a little longer and see if he adds more lies to the pile and dig himself in deeper.
I hate to respond to him anymore but I know if I ask the right questions he will probably bury himself.
I'll think about it. >>
Yes, please throw him under the "eBay Bus" at your convenience.
I'm not going to do anything unless it escalates or continues on for a while longer.
<< <i>
<< <i>We were told today that Moonlight Mint, the mint that struck Daniel Carr's Peace Dollars and other fantasy pieces designed by him is not 100% owned by him. >>
I take it Daniel is married?
Well yes, there is that spousal aspect. But she isn't interested in the "man cave".
--Severian the Lame
As sure as the sun rises and sets, you will hear from him again.
The general thoughts are the items will peak as collectors think the will continue to rise in price, sellers will bail out and the prices will drop like a rock.
(Note the keen sense of market timing......)
I guess my thoughts would be buyer beware as the only thing rarer could be the buyer!
So, he's stating that the coins are rare? Wow, I had no idea! This guy's a wizard of a coin analyst.
That's a great reason to dump them in a hurry!!!
Hope to talk to you again soon.
Ed, you are doing us a service.
I knew it would happen.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>
<< <i>I rememeber about 10 years ago, after the Sacagawea/Washington mules had been around for a bit.
Some had already sold for around $50,000 . About two weeks before another one was going up
for sale at a major public auction, there was a report in Coin World from a coin shop owner.
The owner stated that a woman had come in and showed the owner a couple dozen of the error coins.
The owner, not 100% certain if they were genuine, offered $500 each. The woman declined and
was never heard from again.
Two weeks later, the coin at auction sold for a price considerably less than earlier sales.
Prices appeared to have rebounded to prior levels shortly after that auction.
Hmm... >>
I have started a thread to see if we can flush out a name on that old report. Just curious........ >>
Fred Weinberg has responded to the other thread with info. The alleged dealer (who Fred says nobody had ever heard of before or ever heard of after the event) who reported the non-existant hoard was from Michigan, so I doubt if there is any connection to the false eBay reports regarding 1964-D dollars. False alarm.
TD
"Thank you. Your report has been sent
We appreciate your effort to help us maintain a safe trading environment.
eBay takes all reports seriously. We will investigate your report and take the appropriate action, based on the information that you have submitted and information gathered from other sources.
Please note that we cannot respond to you with the result of our investigation due to privacy rules.If you have other concerns or questions, Contact Us
Thank you for helping make eBay a safe online marketplace."
"Ed, I made NO libelous comments concerting Mr. Carr. If you took my observations in that manner, I am very sorry. I was only telling you want we were hearing concerning the Moonlight Mint. Nothing was aimed at Mr. Carr personally.
Ryan
- bfannon65"
"Ed, My 2nd reponse to your previous email, after I took a minute to reflect and also read the other emails between us. I DO NOT find anything in any of the emails that suggests I think Mr. Carr has done or is involved in anything wrong. I was simply stating the facts as both you and others presented them to us. Again, very sorry if I offended you in any way!
Ryan"
Hello Ryan,
I have been reading a thread in the Collector's Universe Forums that has what appears to be your name and your father's business mentioned quite a few times. You may find the following link interesting:
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=806191
Is this you? If so, do you have a comment to make concerning the statements apparently you have made by email to others? I am interested in what basis you have for the slanderous claims you make against Daniel Carr and the Moonlight Mint. What facts do you have to support your statements? Also, I read them as you are trying to conduct business outside of eBay which is clearly a violation of their rules.
Lastly, and quite frankly.....what are you trying to accomplish through those emails? For what my opinion is worth, you should tread a little bit more lightly my friend.
Michael
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In response I received this email:
Sir, I am in receipt of your email send to my email address and beginning Hello Ryan. Enclosed in the email is a link to a thread in a forum in Collector's Universe Forums. It goes on to state that Ryan's name and his father's business is mentioned quite a few times. It then asks the question "Is the you?" It further implies that I may be quilty of some slanderous claims made against one Daniel Carr and/or Moonlight Mint. It then asks what my intentions are and mentions conducting business outside of eBay and then seems to make a threat against me!
Let me address the issues brought up in your email. First, I have no idea what you are talking about. I am having our computer people look at all the computers in our offices to see it the aforementioned emails did, in fact, come from someone in our offices using our equipment. Yes, I have a son Ryan. He does work for one or more of the family businesses, but he has been out of town on business since Wednesday Feb. 9. If someone here is using either our personal email or our business email IP addresses, we will find out who, when and why. I personally do not know Mr. Carr, but as most people in the coin industry, do know who he is and would in no way do any thing to tarnish his image. I know him to be an extremely skilled designer and craftsman. From your email, nor from the link you sent me can I determine which of Mr. Carr's items are in question.
I also do not know who you are, therefore I do not know whether to thank you for alerting us to something that may be happening here or treat the email as a threat? Hopefully it is the first. If you think we should discuss this matter more, please feel free to call me at any time. My cell is xxxxxxxxxxx and will be happy to discuss any questions and/or problems with you or Mr. Carr.
Bill Fannon
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At this very moment, I do not personally know what to think, except that my intent was to try and help and try to get some facts around this situation. I x'd out Mr. Fannon's cell phone for privacy and hope that I am not stirring up the issue, but honestly feel that at the very least, the other side of this thread is being represented. I just do not know exactly what it means though!
Coinsaboutforum.com Join today!
Next thing we'll be hearing is....someone must have hijacked our eBay account. LOL
Prolly give him a good talkin' to once he returns home.
<< <i>Earlier today I emailed this person Ryan per the email provided in the emails copied by our member mrcoin3:
Hello Ryan,
I have been reading a thread in the Collector's Universe Forums that has what appears to be your name and your father's business mentioned quite a few times. You may find the following link interesting:
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=806191
Is this you? If so, do you have a comment to make concerning the statements apparently you have made by email to others? I am interested in what basis you have for the slanderous claims you make against Daniel Carr and the Moonlight Mint. What facts do you have to support your statements? Also, I read them as you are trying to conduct business outside of eBay which is clearly a violation of their rules.
Lastly, and quite frankly.....what are you trying to accomplish through those emails? For what my opinion is worth, you should tread a little bit more lightly my friend.
Michael
----------------------
In response I received this email:
Mr. Michael Skourtes:
Sir, I am in receipt of your email send to my email address and beginning Hello Ryan. Enclosed in the email is a link to a thread in a forum in Collector's Universe Forums. It goes on to state that Ryan's name and his father's business is mentioned quite a few times. It then asks the question "Is the you?" It further implies that I may be quilty of some slanderous claims made against one Daniel Carr and/or Moonlight Mint. It then asks what my intentions are and mentions conducting business outside of eBay and then seems to make a threat against me!
Let me address the issues brought up in your email. First, I have no idea what you are talking about. I am having our computer people look at all the computers in our offices to see it the aforementioned emails did, in fact, come from someone in our offices using our equipment. Yes, I have a son Ryan. He does work for one or more of the family businesses, but he has been out of town on business since Wednesday Feb. 9. If someone here is using either our personal email or our business email IP addresses, we will find out who, when and why. I personally do not know Mr. Carr, but as most people in the coin industry, do know who he is and would in no way do any thing to tarnish his image. I know him to be an extremely skilled designer and craftsman. From your email, nor from the link you sent me can I determine which of Mr. Carr's items are in question.
I also do not know who you are Mr. Skourtes, therefore I do not know whether to thank you for alerting us to something that may be happening here or treat the email as a threat? Hopefully it is the first. If you think we should discuss this matter more, please feel free to call me at any time. My cell is xxxxxxxxxxx and will be happy to discuss any questions and/or problems with you or Mr. Carr.
Bill Fannon
----------------
At this very moment, I do not personally know what to think, except that my intent was to try and help and try to get some facts around this situation. I x'd out Mr. Fannon's cell phone for privacy and hope that I am not stirring up the issue, but honestly feel that at the very least, the other side of this thread is being represented. I just do not know exactly what it means though! >>
I don't know what to think of his email either, but I do know that this is shaping up to be a very entertaining thread. I almost feel like I need to get a lawyer just to read the darn thing. LOL.
daddy is trying hard to cover the tracks of his beloved son - who was after all ,out of town
.but from the posted emails here from the son , and the info he divulged ; there is very , very little doubt who was writing them
<< <i>Well, I guess he heard from eBay. Here is his ridiculous response to me about it:
"Ed, I made NO libelous comments concerting Mr. Carr. If you took my observations in that manner, I am very sorry. I was only telling you want we were hearing concerning the Moonlight Mint. Nothing was aimed at Mr. Carr personally.
Ryan
- bfannon65" >>
I was under the impression that eBay reports were anonomous to the listing owner being reported?
How'd he tie you to the report? (provided eBay even responded so quickly)
The name is LEE!
Edited to add; In one of his eBay messages he did state the he had an inside person at eBay. Not that I believed it.
Am I to believe that some unknown person , posing as the boy , used his computer while he was out of town ?
And broke into his eBay account , bid on and won several Fantasy Dollars, hacked into his Paypal account ,
paid for and then received the coins at the fathers place of business ? All the while , sending messages to the sellers ,
that contained very odd comments about the coins and the buyers business history ?
.........that is a very large pill to swallow
Anyway, who can't log into eBay on a road trip?
<< <i>Paul--After re-reading Daddy's lame response to Constantine's inquiry it is apparent, to me anyway, that the old saying..."the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"..... is a very good fit for this situation. >>
What if the son has been sending messages, without his father being aware of it? That sounds plausible, and if that is the case, the father's reply seems perfectly reasonable and appropriate.
<< <i>
<< <i>Paul--After re-reading Daddy's lame response to Constantine's inquiry it is apparent, to me anyway, that the old saying..."the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"..... is a very good fit for this situation. >>
What if the son has been sending messages, without his father being aware of it? That sounds plausible, and if that is the case, the father's reply seems perfectly reasonable and appropriate. >>
I suppose you could what if it to death....
What if the father was doing it all on his own under his sons name, while the innocent son is out of town on business???
What if the x-girlfriend of the fathers next door neighbor did it?
What if.....
What if ......
What if......
Then this one...... We can do PayPal and "gifting" is no problem with, we can overnight funds, or we can do a direct bank wire. We will leave that up to you. Either form of shipping is fine, USPS is probably a little cheaper, but again whatever is best with you. I agree, sometimes difficult to do business with a new guy, and I'm sure you have probably never heard of us. We owned National Gold Exchange in Tampa before selling it to Mark Yaffe, who ran it in the ground. We currently do business as Bill Fannon Rare Coin in Tennessee and Carolina Gold and Silver in North Carolina. 2010's sales exceeded $100 million, so we are a very stable firm and always welcome new business. If you prefer you can call Bill on his cell at 423-626-1405. Look forward to hearing from you!
" or you can call Bill on his cell at 423-626-1405. Bill (my father) is in and out of the offices but is well aware of what were are doing for the customer "
it would be quite odd for the son , or someone impersonating the son , to use the fathers email address and the fathers personal cell phone # ,
and to draw a conclusion that the father had no idea of what was going on .
<< <i>OK Mr Feld.......time for the "what if"..........
What if, instead of speculating unnecessarily, you call the gentleman and discuss the matter with him. Without additional facts, I stand by my previous comment that his reply sounds perfectly reasonable and appropriate.
Apple/tree.
<< <i>Mark--Calling him would not bring out any facts. It would only bring out what ever he decides to say. Statements made by by Ryan so far about Moonlight and Daniel are far from factual statements, therefore ........well you get the idea I'm sure.
Apple/tree. >>
If you grill him properly (on the phone, not in the oven), you should be able to determine whether his email was truthful or not. I am not yet convinced that he was lying. If you are, so be it.
<< <i>
<< <i>OK Mr Feld.......time for the "what if"..........
What if, instead of speculating unnecessarily, you call the gentleman and discuss the matter with him. Without additional facts, I stand by my previous comment that his reply sounds perfectly reasonable and appropriate. >>
I dunno, the whole thing is odd. I will point out again my email I posted in this thread was received by Bill the dad. I thought it was pretty darn clear what the issue was and did provide the link here with further detail. His response could have been from genuine confusion, or complete denial due to fear of any trouble. Interesting point to make is when Bill says in his response to me "From your email, nor from the link you sent me can I determine which of Mr. Carr's items are in question."
Well......the subject of my email was " D Carr Peace Dollar Thread" and it says Peace Dollar many times on this thread too!
Any rate, it sounds like son and dad need to talk and I bet that will clear up any confusion on his part.
libel n. 1 Law a) a published false statement damaging to a person's reputation. b) the act of publishing this. 2 a) a false and defamatory written statement b) a thing that brings discredit by misrepresentation etc.
I knew it would happen.
Here's Robt. Anton Wilson's take on some of that subject.
<< <i>My viewing today on cable of Orson Welles' "F For Fake" provided a humorous connection to these issues.
Here's Robt. Anton Wilson's take on some of that subject. >>
"... all [art] experts operate largely on bluff."
the Fannon price manipulation department. The coin is on it's way to a California collector.
Oh yeah, I blocked bfannon65 too.
Case closed.
<< <i>
<< <i>My viewing today on cable of Orson Welles' "F For Fake" provided a humorous connection to these issues.
Here's Robt. Anton Wilson's take on some of that subject. >>
"... all [art] experts operate largely on bluff." >>
I thought that was "Pawn Stars!"