D Carr peace dollar--interesting statement from an eBay.....
mrcoin3
Posts: 384
....buyer that tries to get sellers to close their auctions and sell to him. Now he is not buying and is sending out this information.....
"The company that minted the pieces has at least 12 shareholders. We are told Mr. Carr is NOT a shareholder, but commissioned the company to mint several of his products. We are not concerned that the price may rise or may fall, we feel the price is the least of the problems that could occur with this issue. You do know that there are several lawsuits concerning the Peace Dollar issues. We have decided not to BUY or SELL the issues at this time. I am beginning to believe my father was right when he advised us not to buy any since he felt they were on fancy, overpriced silver rounds. Hope you do well with yours!
How about it Daniel, is this guy full of it, or......?
"The company that minted the pieces has at least 12 shareholders. We are told Mr. Carr is NOT a shareholder, but commissioned the company to mint several of his products. We are not concerned that the price may rise or may fall, we feel the price is the least of the problems that could occur with this issue. You do know that there are several lawsuits concerning the Peace Dollar issues. We have decided not to BUY or SELL the issues at this time. I am beginning to believe my father was right when he advised us not to buy any since he felt they were on fancy, overpriced silver rounds. Hope you do well with yours!
How about it Daniel, is this guy full of it, or......?
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Comments
<< <i>WTH? >>
Exactly. A whole pack of lies. Outright slander (prosecutable).
Maybe the disgruntled "buyer", unable to kill the eBay auctions, has decided to try and disrupt the entire market.
If any person violates section 2101 (a) or (b) of this title or a rule under section 2101 (c) of this title, any interested person may commence a civil action for injunctive relief restraining such violation, and for damages, in any United States District Court for a district in which the defendant resides or has an agent. In any such action, the court may award the costs of the suit, including reasonable attorneys’ fees.
There may be someone out there starting a private enforcement action.
..........I'm thinking that's whats going on here too
<< <i>Don't know about the lawsuits, but Section 2102 of the Hobby Protection Act provides for "private enforcement":
...
There may be someone out there starting a private enforcement action. >>
They could only do that if they had "standing" in the case, which means that they would have to have bought one from me.
They would also have to show that they attempted to resolve the issue amicably before going the lawsuit route.
Anyone not happy with a coin they bought from me can send it back to me for a full refund.
<< <i>
<< <i>WTH? >>
Exactly. A whole pack of lies. Outright slander (prosecutable).
Maybe the disgruntled "buyer", unable to kill the eBay auctions, has decided to try and disrupt the entire market. >>
Some people take things way too seriously. It's one thing to disagree or dislike and another thing entirely to try to do what is going on here. The guy seriously needs a life. I say the OP should out the ebay handle of the "buyer" for the rest of us to see.
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
<< <i>They could have standing having purchased one of your 64-Ds from anyone. >>
That is debatable. Their first recourse would be with the person they bought it from.
But suppose someone did pay a large sum to a 3rd party for one of the coins.
Then one of these three things must be true:
1) They knew about the original 1964 Peace dollars but not about the recreations.
In this case, I could show that the buyer had intent to purchase an item that they believed was illegal to own.
2) They knew about the modern recreations.
In this case, I could show that the buyer knew exactly what they were getting.
3) They didn't know anything about the original 1964 dollars or the recreations.
In this case, why would the buyer pay a lot of money for something they knew nothing about,
especially when they could buy a 1922-1935 vintage Peace Silver dollar for $25 ?
<< <i>....buyer that tries to get sellers to close their auctions and sell to him. Now he is not buying and is sending out this information.....
"We have decided not to BUY or SELL the issues at this time. >>
The story provided is confusing.
He states he is not buying nor selling(he owns?)
and you state he is trying to get sellers to close auctions and sell to him.
Is he trying to backdoor get people to sell to him for melt?
<< <i>....buyer that tries to get sellers to close their auctions and sell to him. Now he is not buying and is sending out this information.....
"The company that minted the pieces has at least 12 shareholders. We are told Mr. Carr is NOT a shareholder, but commissioned the company to mint several of his products. We are not concerned that the price may rise or may fall, we feel the price is the least of the problems that could occur with this issue. You do know that there are several lawsuits concerning the Peace Dollar issues. We have decided not to BUY or SELL the issues at this time. I am beginning to believe my father was right when he advised us not to buy any since he felt they were on fancy, overpriced silver rounds. Hope you do well with yours!
How about it Daniel, is this guy full of it, or......? >>
Y'all know how I feel about these pieces, but that b.s. is disgusting. I have expressed my opinions openly here and in the pages of COINage and Coin World, and feel no need to go sneaking around to fleaBay or the Secret Service.
Please feel free to out the poster of that email.
MOO
TD
<< <i>....buyer that tries to get sellers to close their auctions and sell to him. Now he is not buying and is sending out this information.....
"The company that minted the pieces has at least 12 shareholders. We are told Mr. Carr is NOT a shareholder, but commissioned the company to mint several of his products. We are not concerned that the price may rise or may fall, we feel the price is the least of the problems that could occur with this issue. You do know that there are several lawsuits concerning the Peace Dollar issues. We have decided not to BUY or SELL the issues at this time. I am beginning to believe my father was right when he advised us not to buy any since he felt they were on fancy, overpriced silver rounds. Hope you do well with yours!
How about it Daniel, is this guy full of it, or......? >>
Please out him. Is there a reason you would hide his identity? If you are going to make it public, why not go all the way? I thought the guy was full of it when you posted that comment on how the auctions were being pulled. Sounds like you smelled something funny after you saw that's not true.
"Our contact person at eBay tells us they will pull all listings that have a bid placed. They usually do this with somewhere from 2-8 hours left, but have done some after the listing ended. A dealer friend of ours who purchased some of our original purchase tells us he has had all 9 of his listing pulled. 2 where pulled yesterday after he had contacted eBay to assurance that they were properly listed. As to pricing, we have in stock 17 Matte Proofs, so I begin to wonder about mintage figures also. We are currently listing a Buy/Sell spread of $375/$425. Would like to remain in the $375 range. If you want to wait to see what happens with yours, no problem as our offer will stand unless we notify you before the end of the auction. I hope yours clears with no problem! Some owners like to seem them pulled because they think it raises the value of those the have while others, us included, think this makes the piece look more spurious and decreases the value. Keep us posted and thanks,
Ryan @ BFRC
bfannon65@hotmail.com"
Next eBay message:
"We are in the process of withdrawing offers on these items. At a mid-major coin show this week and bought about 20-30 coins in all Die types and paid less than $250 on average. General consensus with other dealers at the show were 1) Piece is NOT a coin and therefore will never be traded as a coin 2) Most dealers we talked to who were either buying or selling the pieces think the mintage figures are very understated 3) Most dealers are asking the major trading systems not to accept the pieces for either buy/sell markets and 4) No one wants to be involved with one is sold as a real 1964-D Dollar. Thanks and best of luck with you piece or pieces.
Ryan @ BFRC
bfannon65@hotmail.com"
Next eBay message:
"Agree completely that Daniel's rep is flawless. Did not mean to imply the he was involved in any thing wrong. There is some concern however the the company that actually minted the coins and allegations of some strange things happening there. Either way, time will tell and we are keeping an open mind. What we did notice today was that several dealers who had the pieces for sale yesterday, did not have them today. Also noticed some dealers did not offer either buy price a nd/or buy/sell spreads. To my best knowledge, we left the show with about 30 or so pieces and heard very little comment on the pieces today. They did come up at dinner last night with a group of dealers and several dealers seemed to agree that they were not collectible coins and therefore they saw no reason to inventory them. We bought a total of 28 pieces on the first release at a slight discount from issue price. My father(who only owns the business) was opposed to buying them at all, calling them nothing more than privately minted silver rounds! As before, time will tell, but we have withdrawn any and all buy prices and have decided not to offer any for sale until the smoke clears.
Ryan @ BFRC
bfannon65@hotmail.com"
Final eBay message was the one I started this thread with.
Anybody know this guy ?? eBay handle is bfannon65
A. a fan of the pieces;
B. trying to buy more of them; and
C. a liar.
Doesn't sound like one of the detractors.
MOO
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>....buyer that tries to get sellers to close their auctions and sell to him. Now he is not buying and is sending out this information.....
"We have decided not to BUY or SELL the issues at this time. >>
The story provided is confusing.
He states he is not buying nor selling(he owns?)
and you state he is trying to get sellers to close auctions and sell to him.
Is he trying to backdoor get people to sell to him for melt? >>
His first message, which I unfortunately deleted when I declined his offer, was for me to close the auction and sell the coin to him for $375.00 thru paypal. I wish I hadn't deleted it now.
I hear crickets chirping...anyone there...hello!!!
Bill Fannon Rare Coins
Address: PO Box 140
City: Tazewell
State: TN
Zip Code: 37879
Phone: 423-626-1405
be carefulwording the question as to not to offer to sell it to him for $375, though.
AL
<< <i>ask him if he has finally decided not to offer $375 anymore.
be carefulwording the question as to not to offer to sell it to him for $375, though. >>
In his second message posted above he states that he is withdrawing all offers on them. I took that to mean his offer to me as well.
<< <i>I'm not sure what to make of this clown, which is why I brought it here. Anybody know a B. Fannon Rare Coins? >>
You DO know how to use Google right?
Bill Fannon Rare Coins, Tazewell TN.
Bill Fannon Rare Coins
Why don;t you give him a jingle and speak directly to him?
Heck, maybe even Dan will want to talk with him.
The name is LEE!
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What is your bottom dollar? We have purchased several Type 2 versions also, but will have to check to see what we paid for those. Feel free to contact us via email, bfannon65@hotmail.com, or you can call Bill on his cell at 423-626-1405. Bill (my father) is in and out of the offices but is well aware of what were are doing for the customer. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts of these items. When we were first approached about buying a 10+ pc group, were a little hesitate as did not know what Uncle Sam's view would be. Thanks and look forward to hearing from you, Ryan Fannon@BFRC.
Then this one......
We can do PayPal and "gifting" is no problem with, we can overnight funds, or we can do a direct bank wire. We will leave that up to you. Either form of shipping is fine, USPS is probably a little cheaper, but again whatever is best with you. I agree, sometimes difficult to do business with a new guy, and I'm sure you have probably never heard of us. We owned National Gold Exchange in Tampa before selling it to Mark Yaffe, who ran it in the ground. We currently do business as Bill Fannon Rare Coin in Tennessee and Carolina Gold and Silver in North Carolina. 2010's sales exceeded $100 million, so we are a very stable firm and always welcome new business. If you prefer you can call Bill on his cell at 423-626-1405. Look forward to hearing from you!
So, thats all I can add to this thread....but maybe 'daddy' Bill is not happy with Ryan at the moment. But, I guess he's using the 'Uncle Sam' thing as an excuse to not buy any more. Though, I think it's purely BOGUS that he's saying there are lawsuits.
are you still going to have a set of 5 to go in the new holders some have already ordered ?
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm not sure what to make of this clown, which is why I brought it here. Anybody know a B. Fannon Rare Coins? >>
You DO know how to use Google right?
Bill Fannon Rare Coins, Tazewell TN.
Bill Fannon Rare Coins
Why don;t you give him a jingle and speak directly to him?
Heck, maybe even Dan will want to talk with him. >>
Yes I know how to use google, but google wouldn't tell me if anyone here knew him; which was my question.
As for calling him, I have nothing to say to him that would be nice, so I choose not to call.
If Dan wants copies of the messages or screen shots of them I'd be happy to comply.
<< <i>2010's sales exceeded $100 million >>
And they're haggling on ebay?
<< <i>Haters be hate'n. It's all they've got in this hobby. >>
Yeah, but this be one of your'n..........
Some had already sold for around $50,000 . About two weeks before another one was going up
for sale at a major public auction, there was a report in Coin World from a coin shop owner.
The owner stated that a woman had come in and showed the owner a couple dozen of the error coins.
The owner, not 100% certain if they were genuine, offered $500 each. The woman declined and
was never heard from again.
Two weeks later, the coin at auction sold for a price considerably less than earlier sales.
Prices appeared to have rebounded to prior levels shortly after that auction.
Hmm...
I do sometimes have other people make blanks for me.
But in the case of these "1964-D" over-strikes, for every singe coin I did the entire process myself,
buying raw Peace Dollars, processing them, scultpting and engraving the dies, performing the over-striking,
and packaging and shipping the coins.
<< <i>This whole thing is quite strange. >>
Yeah, I agree.
I've bought three '64 Ds total.
Dan's blog on the 64-Ds is well documented.
This latest twist of claims, - lawsuits filed? (by whom, where, when?) , buy - sell values established @ $375 - 425, (by whom, where, when?) and "we are buying, no, we are not buying", by after the fact emails is BS.
<< <i>I rememeber about 10 years ago, after the Sacagawea/Washington mules had been around for a bit.
Some had already sold for around $50,000 . About two weeks before another one was going up
for sale at a major public auction, there was a report in Coin World from a coin shop owner.
The owner stated that a woman had come in and showed the owner a couple dozen of the error coins.
The owner, not 100% certain if they were genuine, offered $500 each. The woman declined and
was never heard from again.
Two weeks later, the coin at auction sold for a price considerably less than earlier sales.
Prices appeared to have rebounded to prior levels shortly after that auction.
Hmm... >>
I remember that incident. Certain people do play games.
Daniel, is it possible that the so-called "haters" who have allegedly been knocking the 1964-D's off of eBay are just this one fan of your 1964-D's who is trying to buy them up by sabotaging eBay sales?
If that is true, and it certainly remains to be proven, the people who keep throwing the "hater" hand grenades need to reconsider whom they are upset with.
TD
<< <i>I rememeber about 10 years ago, after the Sacagawea/Washington mules had been around for a bit.
Some had already sold for around $50,000 . About two weeks before another one was going up
for sale at a major public auction, there was a report in Coin World from a coin shop owner.
The owner stated that a woman had come in and showed the owner a couple dozen of the error coins.
The owner, not 100% certain if they were genuine, offered $500 each. The woman declined and
was never heard from again.
Two weeks later, the coin at auction sold for a price considerably less than earlier sales.
Prices appeared to have rebounded to prior levels shortly after that auction.
Hmm... >>
I have started a thread to see if we can flush out a name on that old report. Just curious........
<< <i>
<< <i>I rememeber about 10 years ago, after the Sacagawea/Washington mules had been around for a bit.
Some had already sold for around $50,000 . About two weeks before another one was going up
for sale at a major public auction, there was a report in Coin World from a coin shop owner.
The owner stated that a woman had come in and showed the owner a couple dozen of the error coins.
The owner, not 100% certain if they were genuine, offered $500 each. The woman declined and
was never heard from again.
Two weeks later, the coin at auction sold for a price considerably less than earlier sales.
Prices appeared to have rebounded to prior levels shortly after that auction.
Hmm... >>
I remember that incident. Certain people do play games.
Daniel, is it possible that the so-called "haters" who have allegedly been knocking the 1964-D's off of eBay are just this one fan of your 1964-D's who is trying to buy them up by sabotaging eBay sales?
If that is true, and it certainly remains to be proven, the people who keep throwing the "hater" hand grenades need to reconsider whom they are upset with.
TD >>
Possible, but I do not know.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I rememeber about 10 years ago, after the Sacagawea/Washington mules had been around for a bit.
Some had already sold for around $50,000 . About two weeks before another one was going up
for sale at a major public auction, there was a report in Coin World from a coin shop owner.
The owner stated that a woman had come in and showed the owner a couple dozen of the error coins.
The owner, not 100% certain if they were genuine, offered $500 each. The woman declined and
was never heard from again.
Two weeks later, the coin at auction sold for a price considerably less than earlier sales.
Prices appeared to have rebounded to prior levels shortly after that auction.
Hmm... >>
I'm no lawman, but doesn't this sound a little like interfering in commerce, racketeering or the like? All of which fall under Federal jurisdiction?
Businesses that intentionally sabotage competitors get in trouble.
<< <i>
<< <i>I rememeber about 10 years ago, after the Sacagawea/Washington mules had been around for a bit.
Some had already sold for around $50,000 . About two weeks before another one was going up
for sale at a major public auction, there was a report in Coin World from a coin shop owner.
The owner stated that a woman had come in and showed the owner a couple dozen of the error coins.
The owner, not 100% certain if they were genuine, offered $500 each. The woman declined and
was never heard from again.
Two weeks later, the coin at auction sold for a price considerably less than earlier sales.
Prices appeared to have rebounded to prior levels shortly after that auction.
Hmm... >>
I remember that incident. Certain people do play games.
Daniel, is it possible that the so-called "haters" who have allegedly been knocking the 1964-D's off of eBay are just this one fan of your 1964-D's who is trying to buy them up by sabotaging eBay sales?
If that is true, and it certainly remains to be proven, the people who keep throwing the "hater" hand grenades need to reconsider whom they are upset with.
TD >>
A so-called hater has already come on this board to admit getting those eBay auctions cancelled, so, no.
And the other, Ryan character, has not shown himself to be any type of fan at all. He seems perfectly neutral.
In this case, why would the buyer pay a lot of money for something they knew nothing about,
especially when they could buy a 1922-1935 vintage Peace Silver dollar for $25 ?>>
Who gets to decide that? Unlike 1 and 2 this sounds not like a solution but a question?
Eric
Hey Ed, Good to hear from you again. We were told today that Moonlight Mint, the mint that struck Daniel Carr's Peace Dollars and other fantasy pieces designed by him is not 100% owned by him. We were told he may not own any of it or a very small share. Either way, doesn't matter now as the boss (my Dad) says we are not buying or selling the items. I was told I could buy/sell them on my own, but not with corporate money or use any of the coporate assets to buy/sell the items. With that said you may hear from me again. The general thoughts are the items will peak as collectors think the will continue to rise in price, sellers will bail out and the prices will drop like a rock. I guess my thoughts would be buyer beware as the only thing rarer could be the buyer! Hope to talk to you again soon. Thanks, Ryan Fannon bfannon65@hotmail.com - bfannon65
What a piece of work this guy is!!!
<< <i>We were told today that Moonlight Mint, the mint that struck Daniel Carr's Peace Dollars and other fantasy pieces designed by him is not 100% owned by him. >>
I take it Daniel is married?