Junk Silver Coins

gene1978 · February 13, 2011 6:51AM

I am gettign ready to go thru a collection of junk silver coins. I was going to offer 18x face is this a low ball offer or a good one. Seems most dealers in our area are paying 16x to 20x. What is the going rate? I am going to fill books out and then sell the rest. Wouls like to leave a little room to make a profit.

GrumpyEd · February 13, 2011 6:58AM

Depends on the mix of coins.

Dollars are going for more than other coins.

kurtdog · February 13, 2011 7:08AM

Good point, Ed. Gene, if they're just 90% halves, 18x is a heck of a fair price, IMHO...

nickel · February 13, 2011 7:20AM

When you mention ""going rate"" , it sounds like there is a web site or a newspaper or
a TV financial show that shows a going rate in the morning ,which is to be used for that
days transaction . With fluctuating prices daily , the rate probably depends more on what
a buyer offers and what a seller accepts . A B&M will offer more than a mall kiosk or a pawn
shop . There is a notorius buyer in ct that apparently tends to offer much less than others .
That happens to be his 'going rate' Is it wrong? Well , if both parties agree.....

MsMorrisine · February 13, 2011 7:20AM

<< Depends on the mix of coins.

Dollars are going for more than other coins. >>

Morgans and Peace have more silver than 2 Half Dollars, 4 Quarters, 10 Dimes.

DNADave · February 13, 2011 7:23AM

I just bought at 16X....about $1700 worth and feel pretty good about it.

scotty1419 · February 13, 2011 7:32AM

I see 18 as a fair going rate for private parties to make an interaction. A 16x face sounds like a really good buy price these days.

I've been selling some at 22x locally. It all depends.

kurtdog · February 13, 2011 7:47AM

<< Morgans and Peace have more silver than 2 Half Dollars [...] >>

I actually looked it up and did the math on just the two 90% halves. At 29.91, the current melt, the dollars have a buck-four-bits more silver in them!

PS: And I thought you were just being, well, pedantic.

EDIT: Added "90%," just to make the math perfectly clear.

gene1978 · February 13, 2011 8:03AM

<< When you mention ""going rate"" , it sounds like there is a web site or a newspaper or
a TV financial show that shows a going rate in the morning ,which is to be used for that
days transaction . With fluctuating prices daily , the rate probably depends more on what
a buyer offers and what a seller accepts . A B&M will offer more than a mall kiosk or a pawn
shop . There is a notorius buyer in ct that apparently tends to offer much less than others .
That happens to be his 'going rate' Is it wrong? Well , if both parties agree..... >>

I have checked with our 5 area B&M Coin dealers they are paying 18x to 20x 90% coins. They are buying silver dollars at $20 each. I did not check out these pawn shops or we are buying gold and silver shops just the coins dealers.

mkman123 · February 13, 2011 9:04AM

18 to 20x is a good price. If there are any rare coins in the lot, be sure to hook the seller up later on

SamByrd · February 13, 2011 9:34AM

list it on the BST 18 to 20 times is about right at the present time. List a few groups to see what the current market it when you go to sell. Silver sells very well on the BST.

scottgardener · February 13, 2011 10:25AM

Let me go to Kitco.com and hit the "refresh" button again. Silver keeps changing.

OnTheHunt · February 13, 2011 10:42AM

A rule of thumb is to buy at .63 x spot x face for common 90%.

Steve

penny4yourthoughts · February 13, 2011 10:51AM

hiijacker · February 13, 2011 11:39AM

You can easily sell online to mjpm, ajpm, tulving or other internet dealers for over 20x. Most major cities also have smelters who will pay above 20x. i dont understand why 16x or 18x is a fair price.

shottaker · February 13, 2011 11:44AM

<< You can easily sell online to mjpm, ajpm, tulving or other internet dealers for over 20x. Most major cities also have smelters who will pay above 20x. i dont understand why 16x or 18x is a fair price. >>

Ship it out (postage) and WAIT for a check............
Most refiners in major cities dont pay the public 20x. period. they buy by weight and unless you have all BU 90% you are getting scrooged ala kitco.

Whats a fair profit margin for a b & m shop? 10%, 20%? 18x is fair if you want money today (profit about 10% + taking a risk of the market dumping). DISCUSS>>>>>>>>

OnTheHunt · February 13, 2011 12:06PM

<< Is the .63 figure for B&M dealers as a guideline? >>

They should pay north of .65, depending on quantity.
Steve

shottaker · February 13, 2011 12:13PM

And for the record the 20x guys if they stay in business more than a couple months and arent using "daddys" money to stay afloat pay high for bulk but always neglect to pay more for that 28 peace dollar in your stuff. No one makes a living on a half point unless you do millions a month and few places do over a half mill a month. Most small b & m shops average 3k-10k a day (most on the lower end). Half point on 90% = roughly 2.5 percent profit. 75 bucks a day they better hope the rent is free and they can do better at mcdonalds or kfc........

Or am i missing something. Does Obama subsidize coin dealers or something? Wheres my check?

AUandAG · February 13, 2011 12:13PM

I'm not a dealer and do not have a shop or internet web page. So, I can't speak for them.
However, on Thursday I bought 90% common at 16x and silver JM & Englehard 10oz and
100oz at $28/oz. Seller had been to the local B&M (don't know what they offered but must
have been no greater). I felt good and so did he.

bob

CaptHenway · February 13, 2011 1:03PM

Within the industry, an average bag of junk silver (i.e., not all dateless S.L. quarters or AG Barbers etc.) is assumed to contain 715 troy ounces of pure silver
.
On Friday, using the close of $29.91, the average bag melted at about $21,385.

On Saturday, on our dealer-to-dealer network, a dealer I have known for years was offering to sell 1-3 bags of 90% at $20,975 per and he pays the shipping.

In other words, he was willing to take almost $500 a bag UNDER melt, net, to lock in his sale price.

If it was so easy to sell bags to a refiner and net spot, people would do it. Refining fees are not cheap, and you have to wait until it is done to lock in the spot you are selling at. We've had days in the past few months when silver $1, $2 or even $3 within a single day. That makes refining a gamble.

TD

hiijacker · February 13, 2011 1:59PM

the dealer who was offering $400 under was still selling for 21x face. The other posters were saying 16x or 18x is a fair price.

kurtdog · February 13, 2011 9:17PM

At a $30 spot paying 19x gives the dealer a 10% gross margin on sales. As there are virtually zero operating expenses associated with the dealer's reselling of the product, that translates to a 10% profit to the dealer. Use that as a benchmark when you're selling to a dealer.

HoledandCreative · February 14, 2011 12:38AM

Yesterday, a dealer at a show in Nebraska was paying 20.6x for 90%, 8.25x for 40%, and $22 for Silver Dollars.

CaptHenway · February 14, 2011 12:49AM

<< At a $30 spot paying 19x gives the dealer a 10% gross margin on sales. As there are virtually zero operating expenses associated with the dealer's reselling of the product, that translates to a 10% profit to the dealer. Use that as a benchmark when you're selling to a dealer. >>

Virtually zero operating expenses?

Silver has to be counted and bagged. Though dealers recycle bags that come in, you have to buy a few hundred every now and then.

Coin counters are not cheap to buy. Every now and then they break down, requiring a $200 or so service call.

Somebody knowledgable has to stand there and run the machine to feed it and watch for the clad coins, Canadian and other foreign coins, washers and etc. that people bring in in bags, bottles, peanut butter jars, cigar boxes and the ever popular Crown Royal bag.

If shipped, there are shipping charges.

TD

Bah1513 · February 14, 2011 1:10AM

Had to look that one up....thanks for the lesson

pe·dan·tic /pəˈdæntɪk/ Show Spelled
[puh-dan-tik] Show IPA

–adjective
1. ostentatious in one's learning.
2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, especially in teaching.

relicsncoins · February 14, 2011 1:19AM

What about something like this 90% calculator.

I use it to get me in the ballpark.

90% Silver Coin Calculator.

DrBuster · February 14, 2011 1:20AM

If joe 6 pack (me) looks to buy at 20x face I would assume that a very fair buy price would be 18x face.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 14, 2011 3:07AM

18 - 20 clad dimes for one silver dime

Makes me wonder what is junk.

kurtdog · February 14, 2011 5:06AM

<< 

<< At a $30 spot paying 19x gives the dealer a 10% gross margin on sales. As there are virtually zero operating expenses associated with the dealer's reselling of the product, that translates to a 10% profit to the dealer. Use that as a benchmark when you're selling to a dealer. >>

Virtually zero operating expenses?

Silver has to be counted and bagged. Though dealers recycle bags that come in, you have to buy a few hundred every now and then.

Coin counters are not cheap to buy. Every now and then they break down, requiring a $200 or so service call.

Somebody knowledgable has to stand there and run the machine to feed it and watch for the clad coins, Canadian and other foreign coins, washers and etc. that people bring in in bags, bottles, peanut butter jars, cigar boxes and the ever popular Crown Royal bag.

If shipped, there are shipping charges.

TD >>

Yeah, yeah, yeah, tell me about it. The point is these transact at way under margin for the fast turnover. The dealers have expenses on these transactions, but they're very, very nominal. These transactions are what are referred to as "off book" transactions because the dealers are quite literally throwing out their Income Statements on these transactions. That's why the dealers can cut their margins so close. That's what explains that.

Let's split the difference, give them a 5% pure profit at the figures I quoted. Better? Sheesh!

shottaker · February 15, 2011 3:03PM

<< 

<< 

<< At a $30 spot paying 19x gives the dealer a 10% gross margin on sales. As there are virtually zero operating expenses associated with the dealer's reselling of the product, that translates to a 10% profit to the dealer. Use that as a benchmark when you're selling to a dealer. >>

Virtually zero operating expenses?

Silver has to be counted and bagged. Though dealers recycle bags that come in, you have to buy a few hundred every now and then.

Coin counters are not cheap to buy. Every now and then they break down, requiring a $200 or so service call.

Somebody knowledgable has to stand there and run the machine to feed it and watch for the clad coins, Canadian and other foreign coins, washers and etc. that people bring in in bags, bottles, peanut butter jars, cigar boxes and the ever popular Crown Royal bag.

If shipped, there are shipping charges.

TD >>

Yeah, yeah, yeah, tell me about it. The point is these transact at way under margin for the fast turnover. The dealers have expenses on these transactions, but they're very, very nominal. These transactions are what are referred to as "off book" transactions because the dealers are quite literally throwing out their Income Statements on these transactions. That's why the dealers can cut their margins so close. That's what explains that.

Let's split the difference, give them a 5% pure profit at the figures I quoted. Better? Sheesh! >>

ORLY? WRONG..........

Pure profit? 90%+ of our us 90 gets shipped as we buy it way faster than anyone comes in to buy it. If I could spin it for cash all day that would be nice but I dunno anyone that fed exes cash for wholesale deals or is willing to sit in the parking lot all day. 100 oz bars same deal and our margins about 70 bucks on 3k. gold anything same.... The retail just isnt to be found on a scale to complete with what we are buying in Michigan. Its all on the books here son......
Also it would be a truly rare person that has cash buyers waiting to pay all the money for everything that day on a moments notice. Dont care where they are. Off the books lol? Ever had the irs enema audit?

Unless you do it yourself dont ever EVER assume you know how it works.
What do you do for a living? And dont say it has nothing to do with it because it usually has everything to do with it.

kurtdog · February 16, 2011 1:28AM

<< ORLY? WRONG..........

Pure profit? 90%+ of our us 90 gets shipped as we buy it way faster than anyone comes in to buy it. If I could spin it for cash all day that would be nice but I dunno anyone that fed exes cash for wholesale deals or is willing to sit in the parking lot all day. 100 oz bars same deal and our margins about 70 bucks on 3k. gold anything same.... The retail just isnt to be found on a scale to complete with what we are buying in Michigan. Its all on the books here son......

Also it would be a truly rare person that has cash buyers waiting to pay all the money for everything that day on a moments notice. Dont care where they are. Off the books lol? Ever had the irs enema audit?

Unless you do it yourself dont ever EVER assume you know how it works.
What do you do for a living? And dont say it has nothing to do with it because it usually has everything to do with it. >>

Shottaker, I wasn't talking about unreported transactions! Sheesh, you misunderstood! Had I been, let me assure you, IMHO, you'd have had every reason to feel offended and outraged!

Read the bold parts above. That's not what I'm talking about. By "off book," I'm talking, simply, about transactions that don't go in the normal course, typically because of their, well, atypical turnover times.

Let me try and explain that this way. If you're a retail coin dealer, your coins have a normal "shelf life" associated with them. In that course, the normal course, what you're going to pay for those coins, wholesale, if you know anything about accounting principles (and, I'm not suggesting you don't, but, rather, assuming you do!), is going to be a function of your gross margin on sales. The coin dealers who are paying just under spot for their incoming junk silver aren't figuring those transactions off that third line on their income statements, however, due to the fact that they realize there's virtually no shelf life associated with those coins.

Now, there's still operating expense associated with those "off book" transactions, and, that fact had already been thrown into my face, elsewhere, and, I had already "compromised" on it. But, that's the reason these coins can transact at well-under these coin dealers' typical margins. Again, it's the atypical turnover times associated with those transactions. That's what explains it.

I really have to go. This is what I meant, though. A better piece of it, anyway...

MadMax67 · February 16, 2011 1:36AM

» There are 15.469 troy ounces of silver in 20 silver Morgan/Peace dollar(s).

» Each Morgan/Peace dollar contains 0.7735 troy ounces of silver and is valued at $23.59 when silver is at $30.50 / ounce.

» A roll of Morgan/Peace dollars has 20 coins and is valued at $471.80 when silver is at $30.50 / ounce.

this is todays 2/16/2011 silver spot price.
if you are wanting to sell any Morgan and/or Peace dollar rolls give me a PM.

CaptHenway · February 16, 2011 1:48AM

<< 

<< ORLY? WRONG..........

Pure profit? 90%+ of our us 90 gets shipped as we buy it way faster than anyone comes in to buy it. If I could spin it for cash all day that would be nice but I dunno anyone that fed exes cash for wholesale deals or is willing to sit in the parking lot all day. 100 oz bars same deal and our margins about 70 bucks on 3k. gold anything same.... The retail just isnt to be found on a scale to complete with what we are buying in Michigan. Its all on the books here son......

Also it would be a truly rare person that has cash buyers waiting to pay all the money for everything that day on a moments notice. Dont care where they are. Off the books lol? Ever had the irs enema audit?

Unless you do it yourself dont ever EVER assume you know how it works.
What do you do for a living? And dont say it has nothing to do with it because it usually has everything to do with it. >>

Shottaker, I wasn't talking about unreported transactions!

<< 

Sure the bleep sounded like it!!!
TD

ormandh · February 16, 2011 1:53AM

It depends on whether you want to make a profit or whether you are buying to supplement your collection. If you pay top price and make nothing on the deal then you are not being fair to yourself. If you are planning on ripping the person to make lots of money then maybe you should look at your own integrity. Just make sure that you leave yourself some room for profit if that is your intention. It also depends on whether they are selling you 5 coins or 100's of coins. Just be willing to walk away if it does not benefit you, within reason, of course. People should not expect to get retail for their coins. If they do, then let them find a place to sell them for what they can get for them. Just be fair with your intentions. -Dan

coastaljerseyguy · February 16, 2011 9:22AM

My local B&M explained it this way when I asked why I was getting close to the .77 of spot (around $23), but only $20 for Morgans. Unless he had $3K face, he couldn't go directly to the smelter. He needed $1K face to even go to a middle guy who took a cut. Someone said the small B&M do 3-10K a day, mine didn't. $5K face would be $100,000 cash layout. Thats big on a daily basis. Waiting on getting $3K took several days and exposed him to market fluctuation. Silver went from high $28 to high $25 in just a week after we did the deal. Shipping to the smelter cost money, silver is heavy and you need insurance. And he paid me cash

It was a good deal all around.

kurtdog · February 16, 2011 10:58PM

<< Sure the bleep sounded like it!!!
TD >>

You know from your vast experience as a coin dealer that you can retail a coin out of your shop at $2250, in the normal course of business. You know that your gross margin on sales is, let's give it, 35%. What's the most you're going to pay for that coin?

I could pick any retailer off the street who could add two and two together and they could answer that. They'd also have known exactly what I meant.

Suffice it to say, I assumed too much. Sorry about that.

Junk Silver Coins

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