Would you or Wouldn't You?

19Lyds · February 11, 2011 4:58AM

Time to tally up to the AT/NT table.

If you discovered a method of toning a collectible coin so that it was virtually undetectable and fully gradable each and everytime with full and complete color progression that was deep and thick, and had all the appearances of being NT, would you do it?

In other words, only you would ever know regardless of what technique was employed to detect such things since no chemicals were added to the coin.

(A question similar to this was posed to the Prosecuting Attorney by Jack Lemmon as Stanley Ford in "How to Murder your Wife")

BTW, there is no way of determining who voted which way in a PCGS poll so feel free to vote your mind.

A little late in the game but I think I need to add something which I was really trying to ask since a lot of resonse have been directed at AT and AT'ed coins.

Added to the original question for a bit more clarity. (If thats possible)

airplanenut · February 11, 2011 5:01AM

I'd know if I kept the coin, and I wouldn't feel right passing it off under false pretenses, so no.

pakasmom · February 11, 2011 5:23AM

The acquisition of money isn't a driving force in my life. So I voted "no."

PTVETTER · February 11, 2011 5:27AM

I voted no because I know I would mess it up no matter how fool proof the method was!

19Lyds · February 11, 2011 5:28AM

I voted just to see some results but I ain't tellin how I voted.

QuarterCollector · February 11, 2011 5:29AM

No way. It is deceitful and will lead to future problems when the Supper Coin Sniffer is invented.

Tom

YogiBerraFan · February 11, 2011 5:31AM

No, I'm not into the rainbow fad

MikeInFL · February 11, 2011 5:33AM

No, my integrity as a collector and a human being is not for sale.

MsMorrisine · February 11, 2011 5:38AM

<< (A question similar to this was posed to the Prosecuting Attorney by Jack Lemmon as Stanley Ford in "How to Murder your Wife") >>

if you could push a button and no one would know....

the button gets pushed.

Their marital issues seem trivial compared to today's standards.(he's guilty!)

It's an interesting question for me since I have actually had that question cross my mind.

I'd want to see just out of curiosity and then I'd mark the coin. Even once marked, if the method is that good, I predict some would dispute the AT mark!

relicsncoins · February 11, 2011 5:42AM

I voted no, but then I thought yes. I would tone up about 10 of them, mail them all to PCGS and NGC along with the method used so that they could study them and try to determine if they were truly undetectable so that future coins by unscrupulous people wouldn't end up in slabs.

19Lyds · February 11, 2011 5:43AM

<< No way. It is deceitful and will lead to future problems when the Supper Coin Sniffer is invented.

Tom >>

Hmmm. Will the super coin sniffer detect a half dollar that was put into a purposely bought Waite-Raymond and then put on a high bookshelf for 10 years by a fella that lives near Yellowstone National Park or any number of other high sulphur areas?

I mean, there are ways to tone without the addition of chemicals. (Arizona window sills come to mind.)

Broadstruck · February 11, 2011 6:06AM

No as I've never even dipped a coin in almost 36 years in this hobby.

We are all just temporary custodians and need to preserve unmolested coins for future generations of collectors.

fiveNdime · February 11, 2011 9:26AM

<< No, I'm not into the rainbow fad

>>

TexasNationals · February 11, 2011 9:33AM

Everyone posting I voted no, how about some that voted yes posts? I voted no by the way, only because I am actually not a fan of toning. I don't AT and I don't dip as I am too lazy to spend the time doing it.

BAJJERFAN · February 11, 2011 9:39AM

I'd give it strong consideration. If I ever did, it would be strictly a personal use thing with no intention of doing it for sale. Outside of the 84-s, 89-cc, 92-s and 93-s Morgans, I can't think of a coin in the series that couldn't/shouldn't be done on a mint state specimen. There are plenty of ms Morgans that look pretty chumpy/drecky as is that could benefit from a little help.

kurtdog · February 11, 2011 9:47AM

<< I'd know if I kept the coin, and I wouldn't feel right passing it off under false pretenses, so no. >>

There's an alternative. You can tell the truth before you pass it off.

Raybo · February 11, 2011 9:58AM

I have two coins that I would like to look "natural" but just for my collection, how should I vote?

19Lyds · February 11, 2011 9:59AM

<< Everyone posting I voted no, how about some that voted yes posts? I voted no by the way, only because I am actually not a fan of toning. I don't AT and I don't dip as I am too lazy to spend the time doing it. >>

If folks want to talk about how they voted it's totally up to them but the poll is supposed to anonymous.

pitboss · February 11, 2011 10:02AM

No, I don't like toned coins.

Monstarcoins · February 11, 2011 10:03AM

I would not.....I have however experimented just for fun on some Uncirculated Ikes for fun, figured that was the best coin to experiment with since they are large and pretty much worthless!

DuCrozat · February 11, 2011 10:16AM

No. Deceitful.

That being said, these days why would a knowledgeable buyer even look to purchase coins with "MONSTER TONING!" with "RAINBOW COLORS!" when it is pretty simple to make your own. Ebay is full of home-made toned coins.

Coming out of an album after years of sitting is not as egregious, but why ruin a pretty luster intentionally, especially on silver?

Disclose it if you do AT; it is the only way to be honest.

Nap · February 11, 2011 10:44AM

I would clean a coin, but I would not artificially tone it.

I'm not quite sure why, seems cleaning is something that has been in practice forever, it's purpose is to restore coins to an original-looking state. Artificial coloring seems like much more insidious, although in both cases you end up with an unnatural product.

Either way, though I cleaned Morgan dollars as a kid, I have since learned better and am now much more protective of old original discs of metal.

Coinosaurus · February 11, 2011 10:46AM

If the end results were physically and chemically the exact same as an NT coin, what's the problem?

I'm not talking about "getting one past the services."

I'm talking about making an atomic copy of a no-question NT coin that's like been in one collection for a bazillion years.

If I could do that, I probably would. But I would not represent it as "original" if I sold it.

Coinlearner · February 11, 2011 12:01PM

....It's just wrong. 90% of the AT I can spot at a glance and it just ugly. Would not even consider it for coins that have already been "altered",in an attempt to "fix" it.

lkeigwin · February 11, 2011 12:12PM

No way. This is a hobby for me, not a livelihood in which I make a living by screwing others.
Lance.

drddm · February 11, 2011 12:16PM

Definitely NOT!!!!

Why would I "ruin" the things I collect and find beautiful at the same time..........to screw others in the process, no thank you!!

yellowkid · February 11, 2011 12:24PM

No. In the antique world I have done some restoration of different sorts, and some of it has turned out quite good. I have never really enjoyed the pieces I have worked on as much as untouched examples, a coin wouldn't be any different, in fact it would not have much appeal at all if the color was faked. I have always informed buyers about repairs, restoration, etcetera on antique pieces I am selling.

Catbert · February 11, 2011 12:31PM

I answered no, but if this were possible, I'd wonder how many others are doing it and I would then seriously consider getting out of the hobby. I like to believe that the toned coins I possess are original and unique in their own way. If it many of my future purchases were to more and more be AT'd, then it would ruin my affection for collecting these pieces of art (both coin design and toning patterns).

avenue7 · February 11, 2011 12:32PM

No, because it would ruin the hobby

Bochiman · February 11, 2011 1:33PM

Nope.
I have to live with myself and so I wouldn't.

Just like I am the type that will tell my manager before I go interview for a different position.
Some folks will interview, then tell the manager after the fact. Sometimes, that is prudent. I can't/won't do that though, I am upfront.

OKbustchaser · February 11, 2011 2:36PM

As long as I can guarantee attactive toning (which actually has nothing to do with AT vs NT) then absolutely. The difference is, I really don't care whether a coin is AT or NT as long as it is attractive. By the same token, though, I don't pay the 10X premiums for color that many people do.

AnkurJ · February 11, 2011 2:36PM

<< No way. This is a hobby for me, not a livelihood in which I make a living by screwing others.
Lance. >>

Well said, and I couldn't agree more! This hobby means much more to me than profiting a few bucks.

mrcoin3 · February 11, 2011 2:47PM

<<Just like I am the type that will tell my manager before I go interview for a different position.>>

Not that's funny. Don't know how it pertains to the OP's question, but funny indeed.

PerryHall · February 11, 2011 10:02PM

Why would anyone AT a coin except to use it to cheat someone?

BAJJERFAN · February 11, 2011 11:30PM

<< No way. It is deceitful and will lead to future problems when the Supper Coin Sniffer is invented.

Tom >>

It's only deceitful if you intend it to be. The fact that one tones a coin on purpose in and of itself is NOT deceitful. The OP did not ask if one would try to pawn it off as NT. It is somewhat academic, since it is probably not very likely that anyone will be able to produce a monster rainbow toner without adding something to the coin.

ricko · February 12, 2011 12:29AM

I have performed experiments (because I tired very early of all the pseudo-experts giving opinions of tarnish without an iota of evidence - and that comment does not apply to those experts such as TomB and a few others) in which I have caused tarnish of varying degrees. In fact, I achieved a skill level that I believe (based on coin show experiments in which I displayed coins that were deemed NT and in fact was offered cash for) that would undoubtedly pass scrutiny from experts (since they did). No coins were sold, traded or even retained with the accelerated tarnish. Using natural materials with some added technology, tarnish may be produced that will not be detected, will be visually appealing and accepted as original. As most here know, I have never sold a coin... of any kind. So rest easy. As most also know, I do not like tarnish on my coins. However, my prediliction is to be knowledgeable rather than falsely authoritative. Ergo, the experiments.
Cheers, RickO

Would you or Wouldn't You?

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