Do you think some should have a copyright photo on a coin you own?

seateddime · February 7, 2011 10:17PM

Opinions?

BillJones · February 7, 2011 11:32PM

If you bought the coin in a major auction someone already has a copyright photo of the piece. You need the auction house's permission to use that photo, however you can take one yourself.

fcloud · February 7, 2011 11:35PM

<< If you bought the coin in a major auction someone already has a copyright photo of the piece. You need the auction house's permission to use that photo, however you can take one yourself. >>

Diddo. You can't use theirs, but you can take your own once you have the coin.

magikbilly · February 7, 2011 11:35PM

dsessom · February 7, 2011 11:37PM

By law, a photographer owns copyright to all photographs they produce. It doesn't matter if the photo is of a coin YOU own, they still have copyrights to THEIR work which is the photograph itself. Even if a photographer takes a photo of YOU in a public place (the legal term is "Public Domain"), the photographer still owns copyrights to the photo.
Seems odd, but that's the legal standpoint.

dsessom · February 7, 2011 11:39PM

<< What about when someone photographs your coins without your knowledge while they are looking at them and uses that data to create a database you then have to pay to access and or generates revenue?

Eric >>

This would depend upon whether they were on public display, or a private viewing. Public display falls into "Public Domain" laws, but with a private display, the photographer would need your written permission to photograph your coins for personal gain.

magikbilly · February 7, 2011 11:40PM

magikbilly · February 7, 2011 11:41PM

SaorAlba · February 7, 2011 11:42PM

<< Even if a photographer takes a photo of YOU in a public place (the legal term is "Public Domain"), the photographer still owns copyrights to the photo.
Seems odd, but that's the legal standpoint. >>

Unless that is, the person has copyrighted themselves like that Alaskan ex-governor recently did for herself and her daughter. Now they are afforded some means of keeping their visages out of tabloids.

kurtdog · February 7, 2011 11:45PM

<< Thread Title: Do you think some should have a copyright photo on a coin you own? >>

You ask a general question, you get a general answer. They do if they took the photo.

magikbilly · February 7, 2011 11:47PM

Steve27 · February 7, 2011 11:50PM

<< What about some sort of "scan"? One you did not know was being made perhaps?

Eric >>

Same rules apply.

kurtdog · February 7, 2011 11:51PM

<< So, if you give me your coin to examine over the weekend, I photograph it without your knowledge and then figure a way to make money off it - that's ok with you? >>

It's not a matter of whether it's OK with me. It's a matter of the Copyright Act.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 7, 2011 11:53PM

I'd like to see the coin before I offer up an opinion.

fcloud · February 7, 2011 11:57PM

PCGS owns the copyrights to all the images they take of other peoples coins. They even use them however they like. This 1931-D FS-101 DDO image is used in Coin Facts, and they didn't ask to use it there. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. I don't think they need your permission either; I don't think they need permission on "things" but they do need permission of people when they are not in a large group.

BAJJERFAN · February 8, 2011 12:03AM

<< What about some sort of "scan"? One you did not know was being made perhaps?

Eric >>

In reality, why does it matter? They can only claim rights to their images of the coin and not someone else's. It certainly doesn't prevent you from acquiring your own images.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 8, 2011 12:04AM

on second thought:

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 12:06AM

BAJJERFAN · February 8, 2011 12:07AM

<< PCGS owns the copyrights to all the images they take of other peoples coins. They even use them however they like. This 1931-D FS-101 DDO image is used in Coin Facts, and they didn't ask to use it there. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. I don't think they need your permission either; I think they only need permission on "things" but they do need permission of people when they are not in a large group. >>

But if you pay PCGS [and others who offer photo services here] a fee does that give you unlimited right to display those images any time, anywhere or any place?

blu62vette · February 8, 2011 12:09AM

<< What about when someone photographs your coins without your knowledge while they are looking at them and uses that data to create a database you then have to pay to access and or generates revenue?

Eric >>

Where does this happen without your knowledge? The submisison form you sign normally gives permission.

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 12:12AM

fcloud · February 8, 2011 12:16AM

<< 

<< PCGS owns the copyrights to all the images they take of other peoples coins. They even use them however they like. This 1931-D FS-101 DDO image is used in Coin Facts, and they didn't ask to use it there. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. I don't think they need your permission either; I think they only need permission on "things" but they do need permission of people when they are not in a large group. >>

But if you pay PCGS [and others who offer photo services here] a fee does that give you unlimited right to display those images any time, anywhere or any place? >>

Even though, I paid for the service on my coin shown above, I can't use it however I want. I am sure there are limits to what it can be used for.

Also I meant to say, "I don't think they need permission on things, but they do need permission of people when they are not in a large group."

kurtdog · February 8, 2011 12:19AM

<< I did NOT know it was ok to image/scan or whatever someones property without their knowledge and use that to create a revenue generating device. >>

You're too mushy. Nobody said that. We answered the copyright question, only. You're inferring too much from our answers.

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 12:19AM

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 12:19AM

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 12:24AM

blu62vette · February 8, 2011 12:25AM

<< 

<< 

<< What about when someone photographs your coins without your knowledge while they are looking at them and uses that data to create a database you then have to pay to access and or generates revenue?

Eric >>

Where does this happen without your knowledge? The submisison form you sign normally gives permission. >>

Ahhh. I was speaking generally. You speak of this photo service. OK. Gotta love that name - submission...

Eric >>

Since you are speaking generally, I dont see how this happens. You give your coin or other item to someone. You should know what they are doing with it. If they said they wanted to research and study said item then imaged it and sold those images, yes you have an issue. I took some of your prior comments with inference to grading companies. Grading companies and not taking images without your permission.

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 12:27AM

kurtdog · February 8, 2011 12:43AM

<< Grading companies [are?] not taking images without your permission. >>

And, therein lies the rub. If you can submit the coin under an express reservation, you may have a contract claim. That's not going to happen, though, of course. Why? Because the TPGs have lawyers and they're bright enough to see that coming and make provisions for it in their take-it-or-leave-it terms of submission.

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 12:46AM

Thanks. Sorry for the edits - been here for years and never edited out. First time for everything.
E

mozin · February 8, 2011 2:26AM

What about when I buy a coin that is pictured in Coin Facts? Can I buy a copy of the picture? I can't even find how much PCGS charges to photograph our submissions.

291fifth · February 8, 2011 2:28AM

Contact the photographer and ask to buy the rights to the photo. Photographers don't work for free.

FaberCastell · February 8, 2011 4:44AM

<< 

<< Even if a photographer takes a photo of YOU in a public place (the legal term is "Public Domain"), the photographer still owns copyrights to the photo.
Seems odd, but that's the legal standpoint. >>

Unless that is, the person has copyrighted themselves like that Alaskan ex-governor recently did for herself and her daughter. Now they are afforded some means of keeping their visages out of tabloids. >>

Not necessarily. There are "fair use" exceptions to people who attempt to protect their names and image likenesses and news media is one of those exceptions. Sarah Palin can copyright her name but the media does not need her permission to carry news stories about her.

FaberCastell · February 8, 2011 4:48AM

<< By law, a photographer owns copyright to all photographs they produce. It doesn't matter if the photo is of a coin YOU own, they still have copyrights to THEIR work which is the photograph itself. Even if a photographer takes a photo of YOU in a public place (the legal term is "Public Domain"), the photographer still owns copyrights to the photo.
Seems odd, but that's the legal standpoint. >>

All true with one exception. If a photograph is deemed "generic", then it cannot be copyrighted. If I stand outside the White House and take a picture of it (from the same vantage point that everyone else uses), then an artist or illustrator could use my photograph to create a piece of artwork and it's perfectly legal.

The photograph in question must have some defining characteristic about it that makes it unique. Otherwise, one could take the image, carefully crop it again and then use some image software to slightly alter reflections, shadows, etc. (on the holder, not the coin) and make it impossible for the photographer to prove its his picture.

messydesk · February 8, 2011 6:33AM

<< But if you pay PCGS [and others who offer photo services here] a fee does that give you unlimited right to display those images any time, anywhere or any place? >>

Not implicitly, but if the photographer grants you a license to reproduce the images, then you may do so under the terms of that license, which may specify such things as a maximum image size or that a specific copyright notice remain intact. The photographer still holds the copyright, however. No different than a portrait studio would do for pictures of your family. I believe a blanket use reproduction license is included in PCGS's fee. It is in mine, and I won't speak for others, but paying someone for pictures you aren't allowed to post somewhere sort of defeats the purpose of having it done.

JamesMurray · February 8, 2011 6:38AM

<< 

<< 

<< Even if a photographer takes a photo of YOU in a public place (the legal term is "Public Domain"), the photographer still owns copyrights to the photo.
Seems odd, but that's the legal standpoint. >>

Unless that is, the person has copyrighted themselves like that Alaskan ex-governor recently did for herself and her daughter. Now they are afforded some means of keeping their visages out of tabloids. >>

Not necessarily. There are "fair use" exceptions to people who attempt to protect their names and image likenesses and news media is one of those exceptions. Sarah Palin can copyright her name but the media does not need her permission to carry news stories about her. >>

How can anyone copyright a name ? There will be dozens of Sarah Palins in the world , just not all as gleekit as her.

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 6:56AM

All these answers with laser-scan precision. Who knew when these things would come up. All this makes me feel very Very Secure. Plus, it lets me sleep at night.

MrEureka · February 8, 2011 11:27AM

Imagine submitting a unique coin that you grade 65 to PCGS. Then, a week later, before you've even had a chance to crack it out of the holder and send it to NGC, finding the coin imaged on CoinFacts and tagged with the PCGS assigned grade of 63. Or better yet, it could be labeled "Questionable Toning" or "Cleaned".

Not that I'm saying that PCGS and CoinFacts do things like that. I have no idea. But there are some issues worthy of consideration, at the least.

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 11:33AM

Hi Andy,

Great question! All sorts of possibilities come up...you always have such neat angles...you play Billiards? Probably 3 cushions!

Best wishes,
Eric

MikeInFL · February 8, 2011 12:01PM

"Do you think some should have a copyright photo on a coin you own?"

If they took the photo and your agreement with them didn't negate their ability to do so, absolutely.

Do you think some should have a copyright photo on a coin you own?

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