I do not understand how you can not give coins away when still married, and be penalized. What happens after that step would seem to be an independent variable.
If I were to give an old drill away while still married that had been in the garage for a couple of years, does that constitute fraud? I think not.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>I do not understand how you can not give coins away when still married, and be penalized. What happens after that step would seem to be an independent variable.
If I were to give an old drill away while still married that had been in the garage for a couple of years, does that constitute fraud? I think not. >>
If it is marital property of significant value and your intent is to hide it/deprive your spouse of her share, it could be deemed fraud.
If you want to compare a $20 drill to a $20 coin, that would be a fair/apples to apples comparison. If, on the other hand, you want to compare a $20 drill to a three, four or five figure coin, it isn't.
Divorces can be very nasty, depending on how one or both spouses choose to conduct themselves. Lawyers can help things along, or they can make things worse.
Another type of legal proceeding that is just miserable is a partition lawsuit where the parties to the lawsuit fight over real property that they jointly own.
I have been involved in multiple partition lawsuits. In every case I tell my clients that unless the coowners of the property act rationally and choose to end their coownership of the property [via a sale to a third party or via one side buying out the other side] outside of the court system, they will end up spending a lot of money on lawyer fees, court fees, expert fees, referee fees and will not be happy with the result of the court case in the end. I tell them what they can expect and what the three outcomes of the case can be [partition in kind (i.e. 100 acres of farmland get split into two 50 acre parcels and each side gets 50 acres); one side buys out the other; or the proeprty is sold to a third party buyer]. I tell them to try to settle now and avoid the lawsuit. They tell me they want their day in court. I say ok, but they will not like it. They go through the process and in the end they hate it, hate that it cost so much money and on occassion blame the outcome on me.
I try to avoid getting involved in partition lawsuits if possible because no client is ever happy with the result, even though I give them full and fair disclosure and warning in advance.
<< <i>Ready for reality? Ok, it depends on the greed of the ex and her lawyer. They can really screw you. For example, they will claim the coins are worth say 100,000 dollars. You say no, 50K. Both hire experts and duke it out in court. Lawyers love this. Judge believes them, values it at 100K (they always side with the female), divides loot in half for "fairness". How in the world do you pay her 50,000 if the coin are only worth 50K to begin with? And BTW, you now have to pay her attorney and her expert because you lied to the court. You can prevent all that by selling everything before trial. Avoid the experts, etc. Make sure you do it through an auction house...Heritage, etc. So they cannot claim you dumped everything to devalue it...that's the second trap. I had to do all that with 3 properties - went to cash and sat in an escrow account at the court house. But it solved all the property issues and left them without a case to argue. Took 2 years of my life to force the sales. Or you can hand them everything. Choice is yours. >>
Well said. I believe SG sold his saints to avoid a similar battle over the values. --Jerry
<< <i>If I had it to do over... Keep the coins ! >>
I couldn't agree more....if they courts decide she gets half then give her half the coins and keep the rest for yourself. I sold off everything and my Ex ended up not paying any joint debt as I paid it off prior to the courts getting involved....dumb move on my part. >>
Let's see...how to split coins so as to fairly give her half....
She gets this 1994 circulated half dollar I keep this 1822 circulated half dollar
She gets this 2006 cent I get this 1909-svdb cent
That's good! She wouldn't want any old dirty coins anyway, give her the new ones that you treasure so much. Everyone knows new is best!
Yeah.....that face value valuation sounds great to me! >>
If you decide to be upfront get an estimate on the coins on how much you would get. BTW, furniture and other crap like that is marital property too so if your collection isn't too pricey you could part ways with most of the household stuff like dishes and furniture and keep your coins. God forbid, if this ever happens to me, I'm planning on walking away from all stuff in this house besides one La z boy, one of the flat screens, one car, my coins and the clothes in my closet. She can have everything else in this house.
If she plans on keeping possession of the house and you have equity in the house then the equity should count as property and would really benefit you in keeping your coins.
Over the years i have spent many a day in the courtroom with my father, he was a judge in the 1950's and then had a private practice for over 50 years. Being ethical and honest while nice and seems great on the outside will not serve you that well.
Your best hope is that you and the future ex wife can divide your property yourselves and then draw up the divorce or hire a laywer to do it for you. I would go together to the office appointment BUT once there the lawyer will only represent one or the other and not both.
Lawyers can size you up pretty fast, figure out how much money is at stake and then tailor thier representation based off of that. If you got no money or assets you will get a quick and cheap divorce. The more money and assets you have the longer the divorce gets drawn out.
Coinguy1 would make a better judge than divorce lawyer.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
[q Everytime I've seen a court battle over assets, it's the lawyers who make out, and not the clients. >>
Isn't this true for any situation where lawyers are involved?
A distant relative of my father's died and he had no one in his will, nor no children and his parents had passed. So a lawyer firm took over the case in which he had 3 million in assets. The lawyers got 1 million and the other 2 million was divided up amongst all the other living distant relatives.
If any of you brothers who are advocating cheating your spouse are the same brothers who castigate ebayers for cheating you then you need to do some agonizin' reappraisin'.
<< <i>If any of you brothers who are advocating cheating your spouse are the same brothers who castigate ebayers for cheating you then you need to do some agonizin' reappraisin'. >>
With divorce impending there is no room for playing nice. Let me just say this. If you play nice in a divorce you'll be the one broke and homeless. A man has one strike against him for being a man as it is. I would hope that things can be divided in good will but it rarely happens that way. Go in the settlement in good will but once the other person decides to make demands byond 50/50 the nice is over because they won't be nice
Based on your replies, I can see why some of you guys are divorced. Also, unless I missed it, I haven't seen any of the lady forum members post to this thread yet. I wonder why.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As I've said from the outset, my case WILL make the papers. Today I filed a 42 page complaint against the opposing attorney due to his actions/inactions to the State Supreme Court have juristitiction over his actions. . Time will tell. The ONLY winners are the ATTORNEYS!!! They size you up while they are obtaining your private info and get you. No malice intended against Sanction II. They will put off the hearing/trial as long as possible. Just the preparation will be 7-10 hours, plus another 5-10 hours of court time, etc. My attorney charged $350/hr. Settlel out of court if possible. If not, ALL assetts obtained during the marraige ARE marital assetts and are divisible by a factor of 2, if not more to HER advantage. That's why I advocated the dissoloution of marital assetts before the legal seperation date. My ex claimed EVERYTHING was disposed of prior to the dissoloution of the marriage. Of course, I have a LONG paper trail and witnesses, including her present boyfriend in dissagreement of her accusations. Conquer and divide. I'll be in the papers, will you? Hope not! Good luck!!! Ray ((((
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
IMHO, act honorably in all proceedings. When the divorce is behind you, you will be able to look yourself in the mirror and see an honorable man. I was divorced over 15 years ago and I will go to my grave knowing I did the honorable thing, to the best of my ability. Please don't confuse this with being too easy or with giving up everything...just be honorable. In the future, you'll be glad you did. PS - Life will get better, life is good. Good luck to you, hang in there.
Put a reasonable value on the coins.....cut it in half.....offer the coins or a buyout.
$100,000 collection. She pays you 50k to get the coins, or you pay her 50k to keep them. If she wants to get attorneys involved with appraisers...she pays those bills.
Either she trusts you or she doesn't--------but if she doesn't....she pays for verification. And the appraisal work is done in front of you.
<< <i>Put a reasonable value on the coins.....cut it in half.....offer the coins or a buyout.
. . . . .
$100,000 collection. She pays you 50k to get the coins, or you pay her 50k to keep them. If she wants to get attorneys involved with appraisers...she pays those bills.
Either she trusts you or she doesn't--------but if she doesn't....she pays for verification. And the appraisal work is done in front of you. >>
And, don't let the lawyers tell you how the coins will be reviewed. I know of a situation where someone's collection was to be appraised by 2 appraisers - - one for the husband and one for the wife. The husband got his appraisal done, then his attorney called and said, "OK, give your coins to the other attorney and he will get them appraised." I was asked by the collector what to do. I told him under no circumstances was he going to do that. Security is an issue, and how would he know he is getting the same coins returned after the appraisal? I told him to tell the lawyer to have his appraiser call him and set up an appointment at the bank to review the coins. That appraisal took place. Two weeks later the collector's attorney calls and says "we're going to need another appraisal". "Why?" "Because the lawyer left the appraisal and a bunch of other papers in the back seat of his car, the car was broken into and the papers were all missing." The collector told his attorney, "Call the other attorney, and tell him that if the appraisal had been done HIS way, there wouldn't be a coin collection to split up!"
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>As I've said from the outset, my case WILL make the papers. Today I filed a 42 page complaint against the opposing attorney due to his actions/inactions to the State Supreme Court have juristitiction over his actions. . Time will tell. The ONLY winners are the ATTORNEYS!!! They size you up while they are obtaining your private info and get you. No malice intended against Sanction II. They will put off the hearing/trial as long as possible. Just the preparation will be 7-10 hours, plus another 5-10 hours of court time, etc. My attorney charged $350/hr. Settlel out of court if possible. If not, ALL assetts obtained during the marraige ARE marital assetts and are divisible by a factor of 2, if not more to HER advantage. That's why I advocated the dissoloution of marital assetts before the legal seperation date. My ex claimed EVERYTHING was disposed of prior to the dissoloution of the marriage. Of course, I have a LONG paper trail and witnesses, including her present boyfriend in dissagreement of her accusations. Conquer and divide. I'll be in the papers, will you? Hope not! Good luck!!! Ray (((( >>
My dad did divorces, personal injury and a lot of criminal law. On the criminal law stuff if a guy had a DWI and the fee was 5k that case was never completed until the fee was paid in full whether it took 2weeks or 10 months to pay the fee. It always seemed that the week after the fee was paid the case was disposed of.
Divorce suxs no matter how you look at it. I do not see much reason to play fair if the other side does not play fair. That said if i end up divorced in the future from the wife i have been married to for 20 years now i would have no problem giving her half, because i/we would not have accumulated all i/we have without her hArd work and help. So if the day comes that we go seperate ways i would not lose a minutes sleep over her getting half. It is enough for both of us to live on.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Only you know the particular facts about the relationship and reasons for the divorce. Only you know the likely attitudes of any poor decision made now. No doubt your wife knows the approximate value of your collection.
You best discuss the options available to you before you do something that will haunt you. Selling your coins beforehand will result in X dollars but in the following court proceedings you might be accused of getting three times that amount? Defending your actions with the statement "Yes, I secretly sold the collection for X dollars, but your honor, not for as much money as she claims", won't go over well.
Having read this thread, my approach would be to sell the coins and start over later (if I am inclined and have the cash). My first concern would be that the children were well taken care of. The other stuff would fall into place. No matter how adversarial the divorce could be, there are certain things that cannot be taken away from me. (She cannot claim the Steelers and the Grateful Dead in the divorce, can she? )
You know the movie "War of the Roses" comes to mind here!!!! Just literally cut everything in half therefore assets will be fairly divided. Just a little humor of course.
Charter member of CA, Coinaholics Anonymous-6/7/2003 Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007 Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
People complain about lawyers constantly. At times the complaints are well deserved.
Other times the complaint are completely without any merit at all.
In my practice I try to help clients resolve real estate disputes that they find themselves tied up in. They have no knowledge of the subject matter (real property, the legal system applicable to same and the court system) and have no ability to resolve the dispute on their own. I use my knowledge and experience to analyze the situation the client is in. I explain to the client what the dispute is about, what their current position is, what the current postion of the opposing side is, and what potential outcomes [good or bad for them] they can expect if the dispute is resolved through litigation. I explain the steps in the litigation process. I explain to them what the legal fees and what the other costs of litigation are. I ask the client the following "if you had a magic wand and could waive same and get any result that you want from this dispute, what would it be?" They tell me what they want. I tell them if what they want is possible, likely, or impossible. I try to formulate a stategy to get the client from where the client is to where the client wants to be.
After doing all of the above, I ask the client for instructions on what I am to do and what the client's objective is. I tell the client how much I think the attorneys fees and costs will be, but I always tell them that I have no control over what the other side does and that the other side may turn the case into a litigation war. My clients sometimes insist on initiating a litigation war and they say [initially at least] that they do not care how much it costs.
Some clients are very good. They listen. They make informed decisions. They give me instructions. They realize that there is no certainty in litigation. They live with the outcome. They pay their attorneys fees and do not complain. They value my services and advice. I value them.
Some clients are pains in the arse. They refuse to acknowledge that they and their actions put them into the dispute that they find themselves in. They want to blame everyone else for their troubles. They want immediate solutions to their problems. They expect their attorneys to drop everything else and comply with their every whim. They at times insist that their attorney lie, cheat, act illegally and do anything to win. They can be and are corrupt and concerned only about what they can get from others. If the court case turns out bad for them, they blame the judge, the court system, the other side and their lawyer. They complain about the bills sent to them by their attorney (claiming it is too high, even though they demanded that the attorney spend 25 hours doing X, Y and Z tasks simply to make things difficult for the other side). If they refuse to pay their bills, they threaten to sue for malpractice of the attorney tries to collect.
Most of my clients are pretty good. I have had some that are horrible. I try to avoid getting involved with the bad ones and over the years have been able to spot bad ones in advance of being retained.
Lawyers in general mirror society, both good and bad. There would not be so many lawyers and there would not be so many lawsuits (including the idiotic ones you read about in the paper) if the general population did not demand the services of lawyers. Many times the first thought of someone who feels that they have been wronged is to "SUE". The worst and best you see in lawyers are merely a reflection of the worst and best you see in the general population. Simple as that.
Regarding divorce and coin collections, no collection is worth the headache that you can experience if the divorce turns nasty. So think long and hard about simply selling it and splitting the money. Afterward, you can go buy some more coins. If the divorce is amicable, work out a deal with your spouse that allows you to keep the coins that you want.
I like the comment about being able to look at yourself in the mirror and liking what you see. If you act in a manner that allows you to do this, you will be ok. If you act in a manner where you do not like what you see when you look in a mirror, then I suggest you act in a different manner.
<< <i>You may want to save that response in a Word file so that you can cut and paste the next time the board starts in bashing lawyers.
Well said, Kevin. >>
But bashing Lawyers is so much fun!! (See Sigline)
Actually, bashing lawyers is as much fun as bashing Coin Dealers. You know, the guys with the mustard stains on their shirts and ties. The guys that wait for the widows with the cigar boxes! The guys that offer $22 on a $20 gold piece!
You know, them guys. The ones we all hate. The ones without faces.
The ones that have faces are different though since they are the Real Ones that make a difference. Such as the many lawyers we have on these forums and the many GOOD coin dealers we have as well.
I personally think that most of the bashing is done in either complete fun or out of spite over something that didn't go right for the basher.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
In fact, many lawyers need to be bashed, for good reason.
Just not all lawyers, all the time.
Same thing with coin dealers, and maybe even used car salesmen. Not all of them need to be bashed. >>
This is very profound attitude and thought concept that truly could be said about every profession. Bad doctors, bad postal workers, bad waiters, etc. It doesn't really matter what profession as let's face it there are just plain bad people altogether but on the flipside there are also alot of godd people.
Charter member of CA, Coinaholics Anonymous-6/7/2003 Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007 Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
...In the beginning all you need is two hearts and a diamond...
...By the end you wish you had a @&*%^ club and a spade! >>
POST OF THE YEAR!
<< <i>Honesty is the best policy.
Always >>
...this is a summary of mine:
she never understood why i would buy 'money'. not even from an investment prospective.
she was 'stealing' the state quarter rolls (over 75, which included all the NJ/PA) to buy drugs. (not to mention the CC transaction and debit withdrawls. she even used MY CC, not OURS, to pay her traffic ticket - which i filed a successful fraud charge against )
the cops had kicked me out of the house. i went back with them and removed the remaining collection, if front of everyone.
i then traded the remaining (estimated) value of them to pay rent. all disclosed in the filings, as well as an estimated value of the rolls (2-3 x face) that she 'spent'. her lawyer was totally bent out of shape over every assest valuation. (had already fired my lawyer) i prevailed.
i also used the proceeds of the sale of the house to pay off ALL our debts, THEN i gave her her 50%. the judge sided with me again.
her and her lawyer went on a huge fishing expedtion, which resulted in most things ending in my favor.
i did not get a penny for the car she took a crow-bar to (i still have it though)
lawyers just take your money, in THEIR best intrests.
best advice(as others stated) is to split the assests amicably or you will each lose ~1/2 the $$$$ to lawyers. i was assigned anger management classes. i completed them... along with her lawyer(totally unrelated situation). day 1 was classic!
5yrs later...
she spent 6+ mos in jail, doesnt have a place to live, has NO custody of our son, anything! i have the collection back, after repaying the value of the collection.
If you are dealing with a non-lawyer person who has seen the inside of a court-room and wants to go back there, they are insane and you need to run. I grew up in a very small town and now live in a fairly small town (30,000). I have been on both sides of corrupt judges, corrupt attorneys, etc. I have seen lying, theft, blackmail and bribery just among the attorneys. I have friends that are attorneys and they will not touch divorces at all...(maybe because they know the people I'm referencing above).
Comments
<< <i>What coins?
yeah, what coins, lmao ( hint hint )
If I were to give an old drill away while still married that had been in the garage for a couple of years, does that constitute fraud? I think not.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>I do not understand how you can not give coins away when still married, and be penalized. What happens after that step would seem to be an independent variable.
If I were to give an old drill away while still married that had been in the garage for a couple of years, does that constitute fraud? I think not. >>
If it is marital property of significant value and your intent is to hide it/deprive your spouse of her share, it could be deemed fraud.
If you want to compare a $20 drill to a $20 coin, that would be a fair/apples to apples comparison. If, on the other hand, you want to compare a $20 drill to a three, four or five figure coin, it isn't.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Another type of legal proceeding that is just miserable is a partition lawsuit where the parties to the lawsuit fight over real property that they jointly own.
I have been involved in multiple partition lawsuits. In every case I tell my clients that unless the coowners of the property act rationally and choose to end their coownership of the property [via a sale to a third party or via one side buying out the other side] outside of the court system, they will end up spending a lot of money on lawyer fees, court fees, expert fees, referee fees and will not be happy with the result of the court case in the end. I tell them what they can expect and what the three outcomes of the case can be [partition in kind (i.e. 100 acres of farmland get split into two 50 acre parcels and each side gets 50 acres); one side buys out the other; or the proeprty is sold to a third party buyer]. I tell them to try to settle now and avoid the lawsuit. They tell me they want their day in court. I say ok, but they will not like it. They go through the process and in the end they hate it, hate that it cost so much money and on occassion blame the outcome on me.
I try to avoid getting involved in partition lawsuits if possible because no client is ever happy with the result, even though I give them full and fair disclosure and warning in advance.
<< <i>Ready for reality? Ok, it depends on the greed of the ex and her lawyer. They can really screw you. For example, they will claim the coins are worth say 100,000 dollars. You say no, 50K. Both hire experts and duke it out in court. Lawyers love this. Judge believes them, values it at 100K (they always side with the female), divides loot in half for "fairness". How in the world do you pay her 50,000 if the coin are only worth 50K to begin with? And BTW, you now have to pay her attorney and her expert because you lied to the court. You can prevent all that by selling everything before trial. Avoid the experts, etc. Make sure you do it through an auction house...Heritage, etc. So they cannot claim you dumped everything to devalue it...that's the second trap. I had to do all that with 3 properties - went to cash and sat in an escrow account at the court house. But it solved all the property issues and left them without a case to argue. Took 2 years of my life to force the sales. Or you can hand them everything. Choice is yours. >>
Well said. I believe SG sold his saints to avoid a similar battle over the values. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If I had it to do over... Keep the coins ! >>
I couldn't agree more....if they courts decide she gets half then give her half the coins and keep the rest for yourself. I sold off everything and my Ex ended up not paying any joint debt as I paid it off prior to the courts getting involved....dumb move on my part. >>
Let's see...how to split coins so as to fairly give her half....
She gets this 1994 circulated half dollar
I keep this 1822 circulated half dollar
She gets this 2006 cent
I get this 1909-svdb cent
That's good! She wouldn't want any old dirty coins anyway, give her the new ones that you treasure so much. Everyone knows new is best!
Yeah.....that face value valuation sounds great to me! >>
This thread has some scary comments.
I don't want to lose my 16-d.
I'm calling off the engagement.
My website
just explain its a buyers market in a down economy.
If she plans on keeping possession of the house and you have equity in the house then the equity should count as property and would really benefit you in keeping your coins.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
<< <i>This thread has some scary comments.
I don't want to lose my 16-d.
I'm calling off the engagement. >>
prenup my friend. Anything you guys bring in the marriage leaves with you
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
<< <i>
<< <i>This thread has some scary comments.
I don't want to lose my 16-d.
I'm calling off the engagement. >>
prenup my friend. Anything you guys bring in the marriage leaves with you >>
in many cases, that is the law, even without a prenup.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This thread has some scary comments.
I don't want to lose my 16-d.
I'm calling off the engagement. >>
prenup my friend. Anything you guys bring in the marriage leaves with you >>
in many cases, that is the law, even without a prenup. >>
yeah but its not really a marriage if your always thinking about protecting your stuff first ..is it?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Your best hope is that you and the future ex wife can divide your property yourselves and then draw up the divorce or hire a laywer to do it for you. I would go together to the office appointment BUT once there the lawyer will only represent one or the other and not both.
Lawyers can size you up pretty fast, figure out how much money is at stake and then tailor thier representation based off of that. If you got no money or assets you will get a quick and cheap divorce. The more money and assets you have the longer the divorce gets drawn out.
Coinguy1 would make a better judge than divorce lawyer.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
There is a cartoon in my local coin shop. A guy is sitting at a table scrubbing a coin and he says something like
"If she wants half of my coins, the least I can do is shine them up for her"
Isn't this true for any situation where lawyers are involved?
A distant relative of my father's died and he had no one in his will, nor no children and his parents had passed. So a lawyer firm took over the case in which he had 3 million in assets. The lawyers got 1 million and the other 2 million was divided up amongst all the other living distant relatives.
If any of you brothers who are advocating cheating your spouse are the same brothers who castigate ebayers for cheating you then you need to do some agonizin' reappraisin'.
<< <i>If any of you brothers who are advocating cheating your spouse are the same brothers who castigate ebayers for cheating you then you need to do some agonizin' reappraisin'. >>
With divorce impending there is no room for playing nice. Let me just say this. If you play nice in a divorce you'll be the one broke and homeless. A man has one strike against him for being a man as it is. I would hope that things can be divided in good will but it rarely happens that way. Go in the settlement in good will but once the other person decides to make demands byond 50/50 the nice is over because they won't be nice
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
Remember your marriage vows and don't break it!
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Box of 20
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>As I've said from the outset, my case WILL make the papers. >>
Great. That means this whole thread is going into evidence and we're all getting deposed.
$100,000 collection. She pays you 50k to get the coins, or you pay her 50k to keep them. If she wants to get attorneys involved with appraisers...she pays those bills.
Either she trusts you or she doesn't--------but if she doesn't....she pays for verification. And the appraisal work is done in front of you.
edit: reasonable(CASH) value
<< <i>Put a reasonable value on the coins.....cut it in half.....offer the coins or a buyout.
. . . . .
$100,000 collection. She pays you 50k to get the coins, or you pay her 50k to keep them. If she wants to get attorneys involved with appraisers...she pays those bills.
Either she trusts you or she doesn't--------but if she doesn't....she pays for verification. And the appraisal work is done in front of you. >>
And, don't let the lawyers tell you how the coins will be reviewed. I know of a situation where someone's collection was to be appraised by 2 appraisers - - one for the husband and one for the wife. The husband got his appraisal done, then his attorney called and said, "OK, give your coins to the other attorney and he will get them appraised." I was asked by the collector what to do. I told him under no circumstances was he going to do that. Security is an issue, and how would he know he is getting the same coins returned after the appraisal? I told him to tell the lawyer to have his appraiser call him and set up an appointment at the bank to review the coins. That appraisal took place. Two weeks later the collector's attorney calls and says "we're going to need another appraisal". "Why?" "Because the lawyer left the appraisal and a bunch of other papers in the back seat of his car, the car was broken into and the papers were all missing." The collector told his attorney, "Call the other attorney, and tell him that if the appraisal had been done HIS way, there wouldn't be a coin collection to split up!"
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>As I've said from the outset, my case WILL make the papers. Today I filed a 42 page complaint against the opposing attorney due to his actions/inactions to the State Supreme Court have juristitiction over his actions. . Time will tell. The ONLY winners are the ATTORNEYS!!! They size you up while they are obtaining your private info and get you. No malice intended against Sanction II. They will put off the hearing/trial as long as possible. Just the preparation will be 7-10 hours, plus another 5-10 hours of court time, etc. My attorney charged $350/hr. Settlel out of court if possible. If not, ALL assetts obtained during the marraige ARE marital assetts and are divisible by a factor of 2, if not more to HER advantage. That's why I advocated the dissoloution of marital assetts before the legal seperation date. My ex claimed EVERYTHING was disposed of prior to the dissoloution of the marriage. Of course, I have a LONG paper trail and witnesses, including her present boyfriend in dissagreement of her accusations. Conquer and divide. I'll be in the papers, will you? Hope not! Good luck!!! Ray
My dad did divorces, personal injury and a lot of criminal law. On the criminal law stuff if a guy had a DWI and the fee was 5k that case was never completed until the fee was paid in full whether it took 2weeks or 10 months to pay the fee. It always seemed that the week after the fee was paid the case was disposed of.
Divorce suxs no matter how you look at it. I do not see much reason to play fair if the other side does not play fair. That said if i end up divorced in the future from the wife i have been married to for 20 years now i would have no problem giving her half, because i/we would not have accumulated all i/we have without her hArd work and help. So if the day comes that we go seperate ways i would not lose a minutes sleep over her getting half. It is enough for both of us to live on.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Good luck to you John. You appear more in control than you give yourself credit for.
Miles
You best discuss the options available to you before you do something that will haunt you. Selling your coins beforehand will result in X dollars but in the following court proceedings you might be accused of getting three times that amount? Defending your actions with the statement "Yes, I secretly sold the collection for X dollars, but your honor, not for as much money as she claims", won't go over well.
sorry to hear-hope everything works out equitible.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
Other times the complaint are completely without any merit at all.
In my practice I try to help clients resolve real estate disputes that they find themselves tied up in. They have no knowledge of the subject matter (real property, the legal system applicable to same and the court system) and have no ability to resolve the dispute on their own. I use my knowledge and experience to analyze the situation the client is in. I explain to the client what the dispute is about, what their current position is, what the current postion of the opposing side is, and what potential outcomes [good or bad for them] they can expect if the dispute is resolved through litigation. I explain the steps in the litigation process. I explain to them what the legal fees and what the other costs of litigation are. I ask the client the following "if you had a magic wand and could waive same and get any result that you want from this dispute, what would it be?" They tell me what they want. I tell them if what they want is possible, likely, or impossible. I try to formulate a stategy to get the client from where the client is to where the client wants to be.
After doing all of the above, I ask the client for instructions on what I am to do and what the client's objective is. I tell the client how much I think the attorneys fees and costs will be, but I always tell them that I have no control over what the other side does and that the other side may turn the case into a litigation war. My clients sometimes insist on initiating a litigation war and they say [initially at least] that they do not care how much it costs.
Some clients are very good. They listen. They make informed decisions. They give me instructions. They realize that there is no certainty in litigation. They live with the outcome. They pay their attorneys fees and do not complain. They value my services and advice. I value them.
Some clients are pains in the arse. They refuse to acknowledge that they and their actions put them into the dispute that they find themselves in. They want to blame everyone else for their troubles. They want immediate solutions to their problems. They expect their attorneys to drop everything else and comply with their every whim. They at times insist that their attorney lie, cheat, act illegally and do anything to win. They can be and are corrupt and concerned only about what they can get from others. If the court case turns out bad for them, they blame the judge, the court system, the other side and their lawyer. They complain about the bills sent to them by their attorney (claiming it is too high, even though they demanded that the attorney spend 25 hours doing X, Y and Z tasks simply to make things difficult for the other side). If they refuse to pay their bills, they threaten to sue for malpractice of the attorney tries to collect.
Most of my clients are pretty good. I have had some that are horrible. I try to avoid getting involved with the bad ones and over the years have been able to spot bad ones in advance of being retained.
Lawyers in general mirror society, both good and bad. There would not be so many lawyers and there would not be so many lawsuits (including the idiotic ones you read about in the paper) if the general population did not demand the services of lawyers. Many times the first thought of someone who feels that they have been wronged is to "SUE". The worst and best you see in lawyers are merely a reflection of the worst and best you see in the general population. Simple as that.
Regarding divorce and coin collections, no collection is worth the headache that you can experience if the divorce turns nasty. So think long and hard about simply selling it and splitting the money. Afterward, you can go buy some more coins. If the divorce is amicable, work out a deal with your spouse that allows you to keep the coins that you want.
I like the comment about being able to look at yourself in the mirror and liking what you see. If you act in a manner that allows you to do this, you will be ok. If you act in a manner where you do not like what you see when you look in a mirror, then I suggest you act in a different manner.
Well said, Kevin.
<< <i>You may want to save that response in a Word file so that you can cut and paste the next time the board starts in bashing lawyers.
Well said, Kevin. >>
But bashing Lawyers is so much fun!! (See Sigline)
Actually, bashing lawyers is as much fun as bashing Coin Dealers. You know, the guys with the mustard stains on their shirts and ties. The guys that wait for the widows with the cigar boxes! The guys that offer $22 on a $20 gold piece!
You know, them guys. The ones we all hate. The ones without faces.
The ones that have faces are different though since they are the Real Ones that make a difference. Such as the many lawyers we have on these forums and the many GOOD coin dealers we have as well.
I personally think that most of the bashing is done in either complete fun or out of spite over something that didn't go right for the basher.
The name is LEE!
In fact, many lawyers need to be bashed, for good reason.
Just not all lawyers, all the time.
Same thing with coin dealers, and maybe even used car salesmen. Not all of them need to be bashed.
<< <i>I do not mind the bashing of lawyers.
In fact, many lawyers need to be bashed, for good reason.
Just not all lawyers, all the time.
Same thing with coin dealers, and maybe even used car salesmen. Not all of them need to be bashed. >>
This is very profound attitude and thought concept that truly could be said about every profession. Bad doctors, bad postal workers, bad waiters, etc. It doesn't really matter what profession as let's face it there are just plain bad people altogether but on the flipside there are also alot of godd people.
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
<< <i>Marriage is just like a deck of cards...
...In the beginning all you need is two hearts and a diamond...
...By the end you wish you had a @&*%^ club and a spade! >>
POST OF THE YEAR!
<< <i>Honesty is the best policy.
Always >>
...this is a summary of mine:
she never understood why i would buy 'money'. not even from an investment prospective.
she was 'stealing' the state quarter rolls (over 75, which included all the NJ/PA) to buy drugs. (not to mention the CC transaction and debit withdrawls. she even used MY CC, not OURS, to pay her traffic ticket - which i filed a successful fraud charge against
the cops had kicked me out of the house. i went back with them and removed the remaining collection, if front of everyone.
i then traded the remaining (estimated) value of them to pay rent.
all disclosed in the filings, as well as an estimated value of the rolls (2-3 x face) that she 'spent'.
her lawyer was totally bent out of shape over every assest valuation. (had already fired my lawyer)
i prevailed.
i also used the proceeds of the sale of the house to pay off ALL our debts, THEN i gave her her 50%.
the judge sided with me again.
her and her lawyer went on a huge fishing expedtion, which resulted in most things ending in my favor.
i did not get a penny for the car she took a crow-bar to (i still have it though)
lawyers just take your money, in THEIR best intrests.
best advice(as others stated) is to split the assests amicably or you will each lose ~1/2 the $$$$ to lawyers.
i was assigned anger management classes.
i completed them... along with her lawyer(totally unrelated situation). day 1 was classic!
5yrs later...
she spent 6+ mos in jail, doesnt have a place to live, has NO custody of our son, anything!
i have the collection back, after repaying the value of the collection.
drugs are bad, mmmmkay