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EBAY COIN SELLERS: Question on Communications star rating.
Studio60
Posts: 148
Do you believe it is fair for a buyer to leave less than five stars for "communications" if that same buyer leaves positive feedback yet the seller- you, do not?
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Russ, NCNE
<< <i>What does feedback have to do with communication? >>
It is one of the four criterias used in the feedback star ratings.
It is specific. No communication from seller to buyer including not leaving any feedback could be considered less than five star performance within that single category.
<< <i>
It is one of the four criterias used in the feedback star ratings.
It is specific. No communication from seller to buyer including not leaving any feedback could be considered less than five star performance within that single category. >>
That's not quite how I read your question. I read it to say should a buyer leave less than a 5 just because feedback wasn't left, neglecting to mention whether or not there was other communication. If there's other communication, I maintain that feedback being left for the buyer is irrelevant. At the same time, feedback for buyers is stupid, because they can only get a positive.
<< <i>What does feedback have to do with communication? >>
It's part of the DSR's , i see the op's point and it's one area sellers could help themselfs a bit.A shipping notice and for me a 5 star communication is also getting feedback upon payment.As a buyer my part of the transaction is done.Too many sellers withold feedback until they see what feedback they get and i don't think it's the best way.
I always leave immediate feedback on payment and ship next day , ive never had a problem and have been a powerseller for coming on a year now.
Russ, NCNE
Number one is did the images of the item match what I received.
Number two is did the descriptions of the item match what I got.
Number three did the seller state his return policy.
Number four did the seller let me know when the item shipped.
Number five did the seller include a invoice of the sale in the package.
Guess what you have to do to get a five star rating from me.
<< <i>A shipping notice and for me a 5 star communication is also getting feedback upon payment.As a buyer my part of the transaction is done.Too many sellers withold feedback until they see what feedback they get and i don't think it's the best way. >>
While there's no point in holding feedback now since a seller can't leave anything not positive, I disagree with your second point, and here is exhibit A
A while back (I think before DSRs) I was leaving feedback in batches not to withhold it, but because it was time-consuming to do a few here and there, rather than just sit down an get a lot done. At least now I have software to automate it all, which should make buyers happy, not to mention save me a ton of time.
All this said, while I see the angle you're coming from, I still think emails are the real communication. I'd much rather have an email telling me that the item was shipped than a feedback saying I paid. I'm aware of the latter, but interested in the former.
<< <i>Ah, I get what you're asking. Yes, it's fair. Feedback is part of communication, and if a seller plays the withhold feedback game then they shouldn't complain when they get less than a 5.
Russ, NCNE >>
No offense, Russ ... but I completely disagree...
FB is optional and is NOT a required part of the transaction... it is the comment voluntarily offered AFTER the transaction is complete...
It has been an endless debate on this forum as to when, in fact, FB should be left by the seller... I have always felt that it should be left AFTER the transaction is complete... a buyers part in the transaction is not over IMHO until the item is received and the seller notified of said receipt... I feel this way as a seller and as a buyer... and I do not consider this extortion... If a buyer simply emails me to let me know they got the item and are pleased... done and I leave FB... if the person tells me they are unhappy... then I do what I can to rectify the situation... if they return the item, I then send a refund... THEN the transaction is over... if a buyer were to try to jerk me around in any way, after all the dust settles, I will leave no FB as I would not be able to leave honest FB...
Anyway... I left ebay as a seller over 2 years ago due to these asinine changes they made... at the time I had 5 stars and 100% and the infamous Powerseller status... I just returned to selling two weeks ago... so far it is going OK... 12 detailed FBs and still at 100% with 5 stars... we will see how this ends up... I have already encounted a few bidiots... hopefully not too many more...
Also, as another poster already said... FB for buyers is totally meaningless and carries little to no weight... it is not honest and now amounts to little more than fluff with a touch of butt kissing...
Now, as a seller I do not look at the FB left for those who bid on my items... I look at the FB they have left for others...
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>It's pretty simple. Buyers appreciate feedback. I appreciate my buyers, so I leave it for them.
Russ, NCNE >>
I think that sums it up best , and it does work.I get the kindest things said in feedback and repeat customers.
<< <i>It's pretty simple. Buyers appreciate feedback. I appreciate my buyers, so I leave it for them.
Russ, NCNE >>
Don't disagree with you there (though I appreciate my buyers more than yours
<< <i>Number three did the seller state his return policy. >>
If not, wouldn't it have been your responsibility to clarify with the seller before bidding? If no return policy is stated, unless you find out otherwise, it is akin to there being no return policy, and if the seller subsequently doesn't accept a return, that's well within his rights.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's pretty simple. Buyers appreciate feedback. I appreciate my buyers, so I leave it for them.
Russ, NCNE >>
Don't disagree with you there (though I appreciate my buyers more than yours
<< <i>Number three did the seller state his return policy. >>
If not, wouldn't it have been your responsibility to clarify with the seller before bidding? If no return policy is stated, unless you find out otherwise, it is akin to there being no return policy, and if the seller subsequently doesn't accept a return, that's well within his rights. >>
To understand one has to look on it from a buyers point , why should a buyer have to wait for feedback after payment was made ? When feedback is given such as "immediate payment,thank you.Item ships tomorrow" the buyer knows the seller has the payment and is on top of the matter.It relaxes a buyer and the feeling is that all's right with the transaction.
When there's no feedback a buyer is left wondering when the item might actually ship or if anyones even at the other end to notice the purchase.Sure , clicking the shipping button alerts the buyer but it's not as complete a communication as feedback for payment is.
Sellers will hold to the theory a transaction is not complete until they get feedback to let them know the item arrived , thats nonsense and a cop out for the real reasons which are often petty.
A buyers part in the transaction is to pay , that done they should recieve feedback.Its the job of the buyer to tell the seller when the transaction is finished by leaving feedback.Not the other way around.In my own opinion of course.
<< <i>Ah, I get what you're asking. Yes, it's fair. Feedback is part of communication, and if a seller plays the withhold feedback game then they shouldn't complain when they get less than a 5.
Russ, NCNE >>
I'm with Russ re this issue!
My big things for a 5-star rating on communications would be
1. Order acknowledgement and payment receipt (automatically generated by eBay, I think)
2. Shipping notification
3. Invoice in the package, with a "thank you for your purchase" somewhere along the line.
Feedback doesn't come into play for the communications rating for me. I'm fine with the seller not leaving feedback until he/she knows I received the item.
<< <i>That's a good point, LindeDad about an invoice. I can't believe the number of sellers who throw a slab in a bubble mailer and ship it, no invoice, no "thank you" note, or anything else. My big things for a 5-star rating on communications would be 1. Order acknowledgement and payment receipt (automatically generated by eBay, I think) 2. Shipping notification 3. Invoice in the package, with a "thank you for your purchase" somewhere along the line. >>
LMAO!!
I cannot believe how many people on this thread get their feelings hurt and ding a seller because he/she didn't say "thank you" on the package somewhere. I mean sure it is good customer service but I could give a crap if I get a thank you and certainly do not ding a seller either. I am trying to picture the people that have way too much time on their hands searching for a thank you somewhere on the package and just cant stop laughing.
"The seller just doesn't appreciate me, oh boy I will sure show him. Kiss those stars good-bye!!"
I have a few already made up. "Thanks, Item(s) shipped this date."
End of story, until the lunkhead emails me 3 days later wondering where his item is.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>It's pretty simple. Buyers appreciate feedback. I appreciate my buyers, so I leave it for them.
Russ, NCNE >>
I think that sums it up best , and it does work.I get the kindest things said in feedback and repeat customers. >>
I agree with you and Russ 100%. Been doing it that way for over 10 years.
<< <i>To understand one has to look on it from a buyers point , why should a buyer have to wait for feedback after payment was made ? When feedback is given such as "immediate payment,thank you.Item ships tomorrow" the buyer knows the seller has the payment and is on top of the matter.It relaxes a buyer and the feeling is that all's right with the transaction.
When there's no feedback a buyer is left wondering when the item might actually ship or if anyones even at the other end to notice the purchase.Sure , clicking the shipping button alerts the buyer but it's not as complete a communication as feedback for payment is. >>
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I leave feedback right after I print invoices and keep buyers in the loop with invoice and shipping emails, so I'm not arguing for myself, but rather trying to get more into a buyer's head. I suppose my main question still is why feedback is considered the holy grail here, at least in the event that another email is sent specifically saying "your item will ship on [date]." All that said, with the automated feedback currently available, there's no saying that feedback is any more or less indicative of a seller having any human input in the process.
<< <i>Sellers will hold to the theory a transaction is not complete until they get feedback to let them know the item arrived , thats nonsense and a cop out for the real reasons which are often petty.
A buyers part in the transaction is to pay , that done they should recieve feedback.Its the job of the buyer to tell the seller when the transaction is finished by leaving feedback.Not the other way around.In my own opinion of course. >>
I point you back to the thread I previously linked. In the event that the buyer is satisfied with the transaction, yes, it arguably ended when the item was paid for. But in the event that the buyer isn't satisfied (which you won't know at the time payment is received), then the buyer is not done with the transaction until the problem is resolved. A seller can't resolve a problem if the buyer isn't willing to work with the seller, and if a buyer decides to be wholly unreasonable, they can't then say that the seller should figure it out, since their part of the transaction was completed with payment. Similarly, a seller is done with the transaction upon delivery, unless the buyer isn't satisfied.
<< <i>I give 5 stars unless there was some kind of issue. I'd really like an email giving me the tracking #, failing that to at least mark the package shipped on ebay, but even if I don't hear anything at all after arranging payment I'll still give 5 stars unless there was some kind of issue. >>
Solid point.
I consider though no communications whatsoever to be less than five star performance on the part of the seller.
Does this buyer deserve positive feedback just because he paid right away?
<< <i>I got an email last night from a buyer who wanted a partial refund because he wasn't happy with the coin he received. I replied, telling him that he could return the coin for a full refund + shipping both ways. He just contacted me and threatened to leave negative feedback if I didn't give him the partial refund he wanted.
Does this buyer deserve positive feedback just because he paid right away? >>
IMHO ... NO!
<< <i>Do you believe it is fair for a buyer to leave less than five stars for "communications" if that same buyer leaves positive feedback yet the seller- you, do not? >>
Contrary to popular belief or opinon, there are a lot of good eBay sellers and they depend on buyers' feedback so they can improve their selling skills.
If you feel a seller was lacking in communication, give them a low rating for it.
<< <i>IMHO ... NO! >>
I don't think so, either. It appears, however, there are several people here who think (based on their posts in this thread, anyway) that he does.
<< <i>
<< <i>IMHO ... NO! >>
I don't think so, either. It appears, however, there are several people here who think (based on their posts in this thread, anyway) that he does. >>
You can choose to react to all of your customers based on the .01 percent who try to pull this crap, or you can choose to react to your customers based on the 99.99 percent who don't. I choose the latter.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>You can choose to react to all of your customers based on the .01 percent who try to pull this crap, or you can choose to react to your customers based on the 99.99 percent who don't. >>
I didn't say I choose to react to all my customers based on the .01 percent- I only asked if those who say "the buyer's job is over once he pays" if the guy I'm dealing with deserves positive feedback.
<< <i>I choose the latter. >>
For the record, I do too.
<< <i>
<< <i>You can choose to react to all of your customers based on the .01 percent who try to pull this crap, or you can choose to react to your customers based on the 99.99 percent who don't. >>
I didn't say I choose to react to all my customers based on the .01 percent- I only asked if those who say "the buyer's job is over once he pays" if the guy I'm dealing with deserves positive feedback.
<< <i>I choose the latter. >>
For the record, I do too.
If i sent the exact item as described then as ive discovered i don't have the problems as described , for me the buyers job is over when he pays as i say , its my job to satisfy that customer , if i fail then i'm doing something wrong.Again , thats just my opinion.
<< <i>If i sent the exact item as described then as ive discovered i don't have the problems as described , >>
I sold a coin from a BU roll as "BU". The buyer didn't like it.
<< <i>for me the buyers job is over when he pays as i say , its my job to satisfy that customer , >>
If you say so. *My* job is to provide the buyer with what I say I will. Some people (refer to Russ' .01 percent) can't be satisfied.
<< <i>if i fail then i'm doing something wrong. >>
Nothing wrong with that approach, if that's how you want to do it. I don't.
<< <i>Again , thats just my opinion. >>
And that's mine.
<< <i>
<< <i>If i sent the exact item as described then as ive discovered i don't have the problems as described , >>
I sold a coin from a BU roll as "BU". The buyer didn't like it.
<< <i>for me the buyers job is over when he pays as i say , its my job to satisfy that customer , >>
If you say so. *My* job is to provide the buyer with what I say I will. Some people (refer to Russ' .01 percent) can't be satisfied.
<< <i>if i fail then i'm doing something wrong. >>
Nothing wrong with that approach, if that's how you want to do it. I don't.
<< <i>Again , thats just my opinion. >>
And that's mine.
Thats fair enough , everyones entitled to an opinion. If you don't mind my saying i do see lots of potential for problems selling coins as BU from a roll , a buyer would expect something that is not likely to happen.Most of these BU coins on the bay do have marks and whatever , i'm not saying or suggesting thats the problem , just that selling items along those lines i'd expect a rocky road.
This is really not hard. When the buyer pays, leave feedback. Ship through PayPal so the buyer gets notice and a tracking number. Put a sticky note on the cardboard protector that says "thanks!". Stick an invoice in the envelope so the buyer remembers what he paid to whom. Package with bubble wrap and ship immediately.
Guaranteed 5 stars...if you were honest in your description and photos.
Lance.
I bought the item with good intentions and now can't pay for it because the seller will not communicate with me.
Ron
<< <i>Most of these BU coins on the bay do have marks and whatever... >>
Yes, most BU coins do have marks. Not surprising, when there's a link in the seller's auction describing grading that says this is what "BU" means:
"BU = MS60: A strictly uncirculated coin with no trace of wear, but with blemishes more obvious than for MS63. Has full mint luster, but surface may be dull, spotted or heavily toned."
Question- doesn't the buyer have a responsibility to read and understand the listing before bidding?
<< <i>
<< <i>Most of these BU coins on the bay do have marks and whatever... >>
Yes, most BU coins do have marks. Not surprising, when there's a link in the seller's auction describing grading that says this is what "BU" means:
"BU = MS60: A strictly uncirculated coin with no trace of wear, but with blemishes more obvious than for MS63. Has full mint luster, but surface may be dull, spotted or heavily toned."
Question- doesn't the buyer have a responsibility to read and understand the listing before bidding? >>
When selling any coin id photograph the item the buyer will recieve , buyers are unlikely to click links to read the details.Who reads the fine print ?
<< <i>When selling any coin id photograph the item the buyer will recieve , >>
Every coin I sell has a picture of the item for sale.
<< <i> buyers are unlikely to click links to read the details.Who reads the fine print ? >>
On eBay? I do. What about you?
<< <i>
<< <i>When selling any coin id photograph the item the buyer will recieve , >>
Every coin I sell has a picture of the item for sale.
<< <i> buyers are unlikely to click links to read the details.Who reads the fine print ? >>
On eBay? I do. What about you? >>
Is the photo of the actual coin the buyer will get or is it a stock photo of the coin and pretty much pot luck what comes out the roll ? If it's a photo of the actual coin the buyer gets i don't see the buyers beef as the pics should be clear.If its a stock photo showing a beautiful coin and i get a duffed up one i wouldn't be overly pleased either.I happen to know this does in fact happen.
As for what i read , if i cant trust the title and pictures and description i'm already in too deep , i don't click links to read about quality control or definitions of what is what and i doubt many buyers of coins from a roll do either.Generally the title says BU 2011 whatever and theres a pretty pic..its a few bucks so why not ..right ? So when something less than beautiful turns up the tide turns.
<< <i>Is the photo of the actual coin the buyer will get or is it a stock photo of the coin and pretty much pot luck what comes out the roll ? >>
Already answered. "Every coin I sell has a picture of the item for sale."
<< <i>As for what i read , if i cant trust the title and pictures and description i'm already in too deep , >>
How do you know you can trust the title and pictures and description if you don't read any more than that? Every week, there's a thread started by somebody who's got a problem on eBay because they didn't do any more than that.
<< <i>i don't click links to read about quality control or definitions of what is what and i doubt many buyers of coins from a roll do either. >>
Well, they'd be better off if they did.
<< <i>Generally the title says BU 2011 whatever and theres a pretty pic..its a few bucks so why not ..right ? >>
Look at the pretty pics and click the bid button? An excellent recipe for a flawless transaction, I'm sure.
<< <i>So when something less than beautiful turns up the tide turns. >>
But you don't want to bother clicking links or reading about quality control or definitions of what is what? Wouldn't it be easier to do that in the first place and avoid the problem?
<< <i>Bottem line is a BU coin was listed , are you saying i should discount what the seller says and look for the fine print ? >>
I'm saying if a BU coin is listed and the seller provides information describing what he means by "BU", you're kind of a fool if you don't bother to read it.
<< <i>Sounds kinda shady doesnt it ? >>
What? Ignoring the seller's provided description of his grading and then complaining about it later? Yeah- that's kind of shady.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bottem line is a BU coin was listed , are you saying i should discount what the seller says and look for the fine print ? >>
I'm saying if a BU coin is listed and the seller provides information describing what he means by "BU", you're kind of a fool if you don't bother to read it.
<< <i>Sounds kinda shady doesnt it ? >>
What? Ignoring the seller's provided description of his grading and then complaining about it later? Yeah- that's kind of shady. >>
Well , lets see if ive got this right , the coin is listed as a BU coin , i don't get a BU coin because i didnt click on some link that would have revealed the true nature of the auction when in fact that could easily be front and foremost ? Is that about right ?
<< <i>Well , lets see if ive got this right , the coin is listed as a BU coin , i don't get a BU coin because i didnt click on some link that would have revealed the true nature of the auction when in fact that could easily be front and foremost ? Is that about right ? >>
No, it's not right. Not to be rude, but you need to reread what I've already written.
Short version: BU coin listed. BU coin pictured. BU defined. BU coin pictured actually delivered to buyer. Buyer threatens negative feedback to get a partial refund.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well , lets see if ive got this right , the coin is listed as a BU coin , i don't get a BU coin because i didnt click on some link that would have revealed the true nature of the auction when in fact that could easily be front and foremost ? Is that about right ? >>
No, it's not right. Not to be rude, but you need to reread what I've already written.
Short version: BU coin listed. BU coin pictured. BU defined. BU coin pictured actually delivered to buyer. Buyer threatens negative feedback to get a partial refund. >>
Ive read what was written , notably when i ask about the photo.So to clear that up do you photograph each and every coin for each auction ? A link would clear the whole thing up one way or another. My point is that sellers advertise something the buyer doesnt get.A bit like McDonalds , burgers look good in the pic but its not what you get.
I ask again about the photo only as each time i have the answer wasn't crystal clear , thanks
<< <i>So to clear that up do you photograph each and every coin for each auction ? >>
Yes. I've said so at least twice.
<< <i>A link would clear the whole thing up one way or another. >>
The photo is no longer online. Anyway, without having the coin in hand, what good would a link to a photo do for proving that it's the actual coin that was sent?
<< <i>My point is that sellers advertise something the buyer doesnt get.A bit like McDonalds , burgers look good in the pic but its not what you get. >>
I am not talking about a seller not sending what was advertised.
Is it really that hard for you sellers to figure out?
Well , i'd go ahead and report the dude for feedback extortion to be honest , if the auction's straight up and as described.Good luck
Do you think this is appropriate feedback for a buyer who threatens to leave negative feedback if the seller doesn't give him a partial refund?
<< <i>Wow...I'm surprised by the controversy.
This is really not hard. When the buyer pays, leave feedback. Ship through PayPal so the buyer gets notice and a tracking number. Put a sticky note on the cardboard protector that says "thanks!". Stick an invoice in the envelope so the buyer remembers what he paid to whom. Package with bubble wrap and ship immediately.
Guaranteed 5 stars...if you were honest in your description and photos.
Lance. >>
You forgot no extra charge for shipping!