How did I just get outbid by split bids at Heritage?

Bayard1908 · January 7, 2011 1:07PM

I placed several bids in the Heritage online session taking place this weekend. Just now I was outbid on some lots via split bids. Unless these were mail or fax bids, I don't know how this could possibly happen.

For example, I was the high bidder on an item at $550 with a bid increment of $50. Somehow the bid is now $575.

This has happened to me previously. Do you think Heritage is giving another bidder preferential treatment or is it just coincidence that some mail or fax bidder made a fortuitous split that couldn't have been made via internet bidding?

AnkurJ · January 7, 2011 1:15PM

You can split bid on heritage live or live online bidding.

MrEureka · January 7, 2011 1:15PM

One way this can happen:

Bid sheets allow for split bids. These can be submitted by fax or by hand at the auction venue.

coindeuce · January 7, 2011 1:27PM

Contrary to what you may want to believe, there are some very skillful and cunning agents/collectors that know and understand the strategy of live or fax/mail split bids.

Bayard1908 · January 7, 2011 1:50PM

<< Contrary to what you may want to believe, there are some very skillful and cunning agents/collectors that know and understand the strategy of live or fax/mail split bids.

>>

The deadline for fax/mail bids was last Tuesday. Are you saying that bids for the online session could be presented in person after the Tuesday deadline?

Bayard1908 · January 7, 2011 1:53PM

<< You can split bid on heritage live or live online bidding. >>

If you want to bid one half increment higher than the current bid, you can't do that until the auction goes live.

PonyExpress8 · January 7, 2011 2:21PM

Many folks will place there max bid well above the current bid at an odd number to create a bid/cutoff point.

IE the bidding early starts out at $260 and a bidder thinks the final bid may be $450 or $500. To insure they get the best shot at the item they place a bid of $512 or such. The online pre-auction bidding allows you to place any amount over the minimum increment increase. I suspect that is what you are seeing and if they were the first to put up that bid then their bid takes priority until there max bid has been exceeded. Thus if you were to place your bid of $500 in my example it would show you losing out with a higher bid of that same $512.

fc · January 7, 2011 2:26PM

<< Many folks will place there max bid well above the current bid at an odd number to create a bid/cutoff point.

IE the bidding early starts out at $260 and a bidder thinks the final bid may be $450 or $500. To insure they get the best shot at the item they place a bid of $512 or such. The online pre-auction bidding allows you to place any amount over the minimum increment increase. I suspect that is what you are seeing and if they were the first to put up that bid then their bid takes priority until there max bid has been exceeded. Thus if you were to place your bid of $500 in my example it would show you losing out with a higher bid of that same $512. >>

but in your example he would have never been shown as the high bidder which
he states he was for a short while.

correct me if i am wrong, but the online sessions do not have live bidding in person
because there is no actual auction at some location. this is an online auction only.

the only idea i can come up with is that someone is manually entering fax/mail bids after the deadline...

Bayard1908 · January 7, 2011 2:39PM

<< Many folks will place there max bid well above the current bid at an odd number to create a bid/cutoff point.

IE the bidding early starts out at $260 and a bidder thinks the final bid may be $450 or $500. To insure they get the best shot at the item they place a bid of $512 or such. The online pre-auction bidding allows you to place any amount over the minimum increment increase. I suspect that is what you are seeing and if they were the first to put up that bid then their bid takes priority until there max bid has been exceeded. Thus if you were to place your bid of $500 in my example it would show you losing out with a higher bid of that same $512. >>

I understand how the system works. What you describe is not what happened.

The bid was at $550, my bid. If I had wanted to raise my bid, I would have had to bid at least $600. Yet, somehow the bid is now $575.

Raybo · January 7, 2011 2:40PM

I was the FIRST max bidder on a coin and I still got screwed by Heritage, go figure!

It's been a few years but i'm still pee'ed.

rlarick · January 7, 2011 3:08PM

Can someone explain to me why online bidding does not work the same way as floor bidding does on these online auctions only?

It seems to me that it would be a win win win situation if the auction ended 1 or 2 minutes after the last bid is received. the bidder who really wants it, has a chance to bid one more time, the seller is realizes potentially more and the auction house gets theirs.

It makes no sense to me, to not get that last chance, a last call, the same way the floor does.

Elcontador · January 7, 2011 4:49PM

The auctioneer at his / her discretion can accept a split / cut bid at the live auction. The individual who makes such bid is prohibited from making an additional bids after this. I don't bid in the internet only auctions, so I don't know how they work.

Bayard1908 · January 7, 2011 5:08PM

<< The auctioneer at his / her discretion can accept a split / cut bid at the live auction. The individual who makes such bid is prohibited from making an additional bids after this. I don't bid in the internet only auctions, so I don't know how they work. >>

That's the old policy for live auctions. At Heritage a splitter can now bid again at the full increment.

Elcontador · January 8, 2011 9:39AM

When was this changed? If so, I didn't hear about it.

Bayard1908 · January 8, 2011 9:53AM

<< When was this changed? If so, I didn't hear about it. >>

I've heard auctioneers talk about this for a year or more.

Incidentally, I watched the auction today and noticed at least one of the coins in question was knocked down to a mail/fax bidder.

coinguy1 · January 8, 2011 12:15PM

<< Can someone explain to me why online bidding does not work the same way as floor bidding does on these online auctions only?

It seems to me that it would be a win win win situation if the auction ended 1 or 2 minutes after the last bid is received. the bidder who really wants it, has a chance to bid one more time, the seller is realizes potentially more and the auction house gets theirs.

It makes no sense to me, to not get that last chance, a last call, the same way the floor does. >>

That could lead to the auctions going on and on and on. And eventually negatively impact bidders, and in turn, consignors, as a result.

Halfhunter06 · January 8, 2011 12:50PM

I just won an item on Heritage Live when i split the bid! lol

Bayard1908 · January 8, 2011 2:03PM

<< I just won an item on Heritage Live when i split the bid! lol >>

Once the auction goes live, split bids are fair game.

How did I just get outbid by split bids at Heritage?

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