Options
Is a shortage of sterling silver causing more coins to be melted?
291fifth
Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
Back during the 1979-80 (and beyond) bullion run huge quantities of sterling silver items were melted. It appears that much less sterling silver is being bought by dealers today.
Since much or most of this sterling silver was smelted to cover contracts it is gone from the market.
Silver contracts still have to be met. Are US 90% silver coins now being melted in order to cover contract requirements?
Since much or most of this sterling silver was smelted to cover contracts it is gone from the market.
Silver contracts still have to be met. Are US 90% silver coins now being melted in order to cover contract requirements?
All glory is fleeting.
0
Comments
It's not typically heat they use to smelt. It's Nitric acid that disolves it into a liquid in the first process in order to refine it into a more pure silver. Although it is possible to melt it via heat and pour into a bar, but that doesn't do anything for refining the silver. Now you would only have a bar 92.5% pure. It's only practical if you're consolidating the silver to ship across County in order to be refined.
It is truely a shame all the beautiful Sterling pieces that were lost forever. I have been actively buying Sterling from the public for the last year. It's very hard to come by now. There are still a significant number of people that won't sell their heir's cherished pieces no matter the silver price. The better pieces can bring signiciantly more than spot. For instance, a few mths ago an American Colionial punch Bowl sold at Auction for 5.9 Million. It's a collectible field all it's own.
Most of the coins I see are bagged up for sale as silver. The sterling and other vintage silver is smashed, flattened and sent off to the smelter
I can't imagine my daughter ever turning it in for cash. She saw my grandma when she was 2 years old.
I've had two different friends approach me this week to help them sell bulk Washingtons culled from circulation and held by their families until now. At $5+ each, low-grade quarters are doing quite well.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>It's not typically heat they use to smelt. It's Nitric acid that disolves it into a liquid in the first process in order to refine it into a more pure silver. Although it is possible to melt it via heat and pour into a bar, but that doesn't do anything for refining the silver. Now you would only have a bar 92.5% pure. It's only practical if you're consolidating the silver to ship across County in order to be refined. >>
I thought they just melt it and the copper which is lighter floats to the top, then they just skim it off. You know, like the fat when you cool down chicken stock.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's not typically heat they use to smelt. It's Nitric acid that disolves it into a liquid in the first process in order to refine it into a more pure silver. Although it is possible to melt it via heat and pour into a bar, but that doesn't do anything for refining the silver. Now you would only have a bar 92.5% pure. It's only practical if you're consolidating the silver to ship across County in order to be refined. >>
I thought they just melt it and the copper which is lighter floats to the top, then they just skim it off. You know, like the fat when you cool down chicken stock. >>
Most alloys will not separate by mere liquifying. Different processes are used to refine
different alloys over the centuries.
Most alloys are not actually refined due to the high cost normally involved but are sim-
ply used as is or as an ingredient in another alloy. Silver, though, is primarily demanded
in the form of 999 now days and copper alloys of silver have to be refined. Very low qual-
ity alloys like war nickles are often used in products that don't require 999.
When there's more demand fior 999 than alloys those alloys with the lowest premiums
will tend to be the first refined. Since sterling is uncommon due to the '79/ '80 melt this
leaves US coin. Much of the foreign silver coin has already been destroyed and there was
far less of this to start with. The lion's share of the world silver supply is US coin.
<< <i>Most alloys are not actually refined due to the high cost normally involved but are sim-
ply used as is or as an ingredient in another alloy. Silver, though, is primarily demanded
in the form of 999 now days and copper alloys of silver have to be refined. Very low qual-
ity alloys like war nickles are often used in products that don't require 999.
When there's more demand fior 999 than alloys those alloys with the lowest premiums
will tend to be the first refined. Since sterling is uncommon due to the '79/ '80 melt this
leaves US coin. Much of the foreign silver coin has already been destroyed and there was
far less of this to start with. The lion's share of the world silver supply is US coin. >>
I think I'll stick to chicken stock, Cladking. Really, thanks, that's very informative.
<< <i>Much of the foreign silver coin has already been destroyed and there was
far less of this to start with. The lion's share of the world silver supply is US coin. >>
I can say that the US junk silver tends to be preferable to myself because it is of a much better quality compared with similar sterling junk coins (admittedly the age difference pre-1965 as opposed to pre-1920 doesn't help). I have gathered approximately the same weight in US coin as UK coin and the US stuff is in a better state of preservation, only a few are holed. The British stuff is bent, holed, scratched, dipped, ex-mount, worn almost to blank discs etc. (and this has come from a wide range of sellers). The only UK sterling junk generally available in decent undamaged grades is lots and lots of tiny threepences (smaller than a dime), the larger stuff you really have got the scrap. If you want better stuff you have to pay above the scrap value.
<< <i>
I can say that the US junk silver tends to be preferable to myself because it is of a much better quality compared with similar sterling junk coins (admittedly the age difference pre-1965 as opposed to pre-1920 doesn't help). I have gathered approximately the same weight in US coin as UK coin and the US stuff is in a better state of preservation, only a few are holed. The British stuff is bent, holed, scratched, dipped, ex-mount, worn almost to blank discs etc. (and this has come from a wide range of sellers). The only UK sterling junk generally available in decent undamaged grades is lots and lots of tiny threepences (smaller than a dime), the larger stuff you really have got the scrap. If you want better stuff you have to pay above the scrap value. >>
US silver coin mintage in the last half of the 20th century dwarfed mintages of other
silver. In most countries the central bank held significant percentages of the silver
coin or they were physically withdrawn and destroyed during a change over. Of course
the population had significant numbers of coins and retained them but high perentages
were usually destroyed by the government.
In this country with the huge mintages the FED made no attempt at all to remove silver
until mid-1968 when most were already gone. Indeed, they were still so intent on for-
cing silver to circulate that they were still minting them until Feb of '66 and releasing
them in the autumn of '66. They were able to capture only about 10% of the coins
that had been made and the people had the rest. About 10% of this remainder was
destroyed in '79/ '80. Time and the current melt have probably whittled it down anot-
her 10 or 15%.
I believe that many countries have seen even higher attrition on silver than the US
but this is largely based on speculation and anecdotal evidence. Certainly many issues
like the Spanish 100P have been melted in their "entirety" by the issuer.
One certainly doesn't see a lot of many modern world silver coins and reports from the
country of issue are that they aren't to be found there either. Base metal moderns arte
being destroyed more typically and more universally but the silver is often decimated
as well.
I'mnot especially familiar with British silver coin melts but I believe they got a lot of the
pre-'20 sterling coins and relatively few of the later 500 fine coins. The public likely has
sold a lot of these to melters though in '79/ '80.
<< <i>Does anyone know if there is a good "that makes sense" explanation why .925 silver sterling sold for scrap doesn't bring as much as .900 silver coins do? >>
I asked the same question Tuesday, as I brought in 135 ounces of sterling into the coin store and was offered $18 an ounce. I was told that most 90% coin is resold, while all 925 goes to the refinery and is smelted. Smelters charge about 15% in refining fees. The funny part was, the store had some 925 Boy Scout rounds and wanted spot...
might be better off shipping it to a refiner. I suspect this even applies to things
like war nickels and 40%.
<< <i>If youhave a bunch of sterling or anything that's heavily discounted then you
might be better off shipping it to a refiner. I suspect this even applies to things
like war nickels and 40%. >>
Agree but it doesn't hurt to first try to sell it on the BST. Also, there is usually a monthly BST thread on the Precious Metals forum here.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire