<< <i>Isn't there and extra ray on all of them? >>
Yup. >>
Just curious....did the genuine 1964-D dollars have an extra ray on them? Some 1935-S dollars did. Did the Mint use that reverse variation in 1964, or the earlier variation?
>>
i think the 1921 had the 4th ray also?
>>
Yes, the 1921 reverse design did have the 4th ray also, but there are so many other minor hub changes between "reverse A" and "reverse B" that I don't think it will ever get confused with the unknown reverse (let's call it "reverse D") used in 1965.
The main question is, did "reverse D" use the three ray format used on "reverse B" or the four ray format used on "reverse C" in 1935. Since we don't know (yet,) the presence of the fourth ray on Carr's 1964-D strikes is totally useless in some hypothetical future scenario where a person is trying to decide if a pocket-pieced and/or artificially antiqued 1964-D dollar is a Carr striking or not.
TD
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
If a person manufactures very realistic looking coinage dies and produces what appears to be imitation legal tender and then sells them publicly at a substantial mark up from "face value", and then goes missing mysteriously for a week.....could this be considered possible legal action by a government entity?....or maybe some might think it's a way to get some further publicity?....
With all due respect Tom, that's getting pretty crazy. Have you seen one of the D. Carr coins in person yet? >>
Nope! But I once saw one of the Gallery Mint Museum copies dickered with to the point that it was in a major TPG slab!
The D/D mint mark was supposed to be one way in which future generations could detect a Carr strike, only then Carr made pieces without the D/D.
The extra ray was touted (see above) as a way of detecting a Carr strike, only it is not known if the genuine 1964-D dollar has the extra ray or not.
I repeat my earlier prediction: eventually some damp fool is going to be taken for a lot of money buying one of these things. The fact that he will be a damp fool will not make his fleecing a "good thing."
TD
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
<< <i>I repeat my earlier prediction: eventually some damp fool is going to be taken for a lot of money buying one of these things. The fact that he will be a damp fool will not make his fleecing a "good thing." >>
You can't protect fools. They will buy the Brooklyn Bridge if you give them a chance. Far more fools lose money by buying overgraded, cleaned, ATed, altered etc coins than by buying counterfeits.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Dan is out of pocket for a couple weeks on vacation (I live down the street from him). Sorry if someone else already posted this; I just skipped to the last page in case no one has yet.
<< <i>Dan is out of pocket for a couple weeks on vacation (I live down the street from him). Sorry if someone else already posted this; I just skipped to the last page in case no one has yet. >>
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
<< <i>Nope! But I once saw one of the Gallery Mint Museum copies dickered with to the point that it was in a major TPG slab!
The D/D mint mark was supposed to be one way in which future generations could detect a Carr strike, only then Carr made pieces without the D/D.
The extra ray was touted (see above) as a way of detecting a Carr strike, only it is not known if the genuine 1964-D dollar has the extra ray or not.
TD >>
I suspected not. Tom, you may want to view the coin in person. People who have written about the coin have mentioned the extra sharp reeding as a dead giveaway.
<< <i> I repeat my earlier prediction: eventually some damp fool is going to be taken for a lot of money buying one of these things. The fact that he will be a damp fool will not make his fleecing a "good thing." >>
Your prediction may come true some day, but as others have pointed out, there are much bigger fish to fry and they are happening right now.
There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
I haven't read through this thread yet (will do so later).
But, I am just back now. I was indesposed and unable to ship coins for about two weeks. And so rather than making people wait for their coins I decided the easiest thing to do was to temporarily close the eCommerce store. All coins ordered before the temporary closing were shipped two weeks ago. The automated store closure message put up was "Under Construction", and I didn't have time to figure out how to change that before I left. Everything is now back to the way it was.
<< <i>I haven't read through this thread yet (will do so later).
But, I am just back now. I was indesposed and unable to ship coins for about two weeks. And so rather than making people wait for their coins I decided the easiest thing to do was to temporarily close the eCommerce store. All coins ordered before the temporary closing were shipped two weeks ago. The automated store closure message put up was "Under Construction", and I didn't have time to figure out how to change that before I left. Everything is now back to the way it was. >>
Glad you are back DC! When can we expect the DMPL???
<< <i>...........I am guilty of jumping on the Caleb feller - and I apologize
yes, everybody has the given right to free speech without fear of retaliation ...in theory
but there are some who no longer are free to post here ; they got booted ;
so........... freedom within limits >>
Freedom of speech means the government cannot restrict your speech. A privately owned meesage board or your employer certainly can. >>
Most people have a difficult time comprehending that concept. Freedom of speech also allows you to stay out of jail, but it cannot prevent you from possibly getting sued for libel or slander.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Isn't there and extra ray on all of them? >>
Yup. >>
Just curious....did the genuine 1964-D dollars have an extra ray on them? Some 1935-S dollars did. Did the Mint use that reverse variation in 1964, or the earlier variation?
i think the 1921 had the 4th ray also?
Yes, the 1921 reverse design did have the 4th ray also, but there are so many other minor hub changes between "reverse A" and "reverse B" that I don't think it will ever get confused with the unknown reverse (let's call it "reverse D") used in 1965.
The main question is, did "reverse D" use the three ray format used on "reverse B" or the four ray format used on "reverse C" in 1935. Since we don't know (yet,) the presence of the fourth ray on Carr's 1964-D strikes is totally useless in some hypothetical future scenario where a person is trying to decide if a pocket-pieced and/or artificially antiqued 1964-D dollar is a Carr striking or not.
TD
With all due respect Tom, that's getting pretty crazy. Have you seen one of the D. Carr coins in person yet?
<< <i>So are you going for the complete set, including all varieties?
yes , have them all ........at least all that Mr. Carr has sold .............only need the DMPL to make the set complete
<< <i>"...hypothetical future scenario..."
With all due respect Tom, that's getting pretty crazy. Have you seen one of the D. Carr coins in person yet? >>
Nope! But I once saw one of the Gallery Mint Museum copies dickered with to the point that it was in a major TPG slab!
The D/D mint mark was supposed to be one way in which future generations could detect a Carr strike, only then Carr made pieces without the D/D.
The extra ray was touted (see above) as a way of detecting a Carr strike, only it is not known if the genuine 1964-D dollar has the extra ray or not.
I repeat my earlier prediction: eventually some damp fool is going to be taken for a lot of money buying one of these things. The fact that he will be a damp fool will not make his fleecing a "good thing."
TD
<< <i>I repeat my earlier prediction: eventually some damp fool is going to be taken for a lot of money buying one of these things. The fact that he will be a damp fool will not make his fleecing a "good thing." >>
You can't protect fools. They will buy the Brooklyn Bridge if you give them a chance. Far more fools lose money by buying overgraded, cleaned, ATed, altered etc coins than by buying counterfeits.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Far more fools lose money by buying overgraded, cleaned, ATed, altered etc coins than by buying counterfeits. >>
<< <i>You can't protect fools. They will buy the Brooklyn Bridge if you give them a chance. >>
Or an 1804 Dollar on eBay for over $300.
<< <i>Dan is out of pocket for a couple weeks on vacation (I live down the street from him). Sorry if someone else already posted this; I just skipped to the last page in case no one has yet. >>
Where is the "Oh, the Drama!" emoticon?
<< <i>"out of pocket"??? >>
Please interpret into English ...
<< <i>Nope! But I once saw one of the Gallery Mint Museum copies dickered with to the point that it was in a major TPG slab!
The D/D mint mark was supposed to be one way in which future generations could detect a Carr strike, only then Carr made pieces without the D/D.
The extra ray was touted (see above) as a way of detecting a Carr strike, only it is not known if the genuine 1964-D dollar has the extra ray or not.
TD >>
I suspected not. Tom, you may want to view the coin in person. People who have written about the coin have mentioned the extra sharp reeding as a dead giveaway.
<< <i> I repeat my earlier prediction: eventually some damp fool is going to be taken for a lot of money buying one of these things. The fact that he will be a damp fool will not make his fleecing a "good thing." >>
Your prediction may come true some day, but as others have pointed out, there are much bigger fish to fry and they are happening right now.
But, I am just back now. I was indesposed and unable to ship coins for about two weeks. And so rather than making people wait for their coins
I decided the easiest thing to do was to temporarily close the eCommerce store. All coins ordered before the temporary closing were shipped two weeks ago. The automated store closure message put up was "Under Construction", and I didn't have time to figure out how to change that before I left.
Everything is now back to the way it was.
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<< <i>I haven't read through this thread yet (will do so later).
But, I am just back now. I was indesposed and unable to ship coins for about two weeks. And so rather than making people wait for their coins
I decided the easiest thing to do was to temporarily close the eCommerce store. All coins ordered before the temporary closing were shipped two weeks ago. The automated store closure message put up was "Under Construction", and I didn't have time to figure out how to change that before I left.
Everything is now back to the way it was. >>
Glad you are back DC!
When can we expect the DMPL???
Except prices have increased, as well they should have!!!!
My die state 5's for your inspection.........
<< <i>
<< <i>...........I am guilty of jumping on the Caleb feller - and I apologize
yes, everybody has the given right to free speech without fear of retaliation ...in theory
but there are some who no longer are free to post here ; they got booted ;
so........... freedom within limits >>
Freedom of speech means the government cannot restrict your speech. A privately owned meesage board or your employer certainly can. >>
Most people have a difficult time comprehending that concept. Freedom of speech also allows you to stay out of jail, but it cannot prevent you from possibly getting sued for libel or slander.