"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
My policy of asking for a cancellation before issuing a refund will not change.
Anybody who criticized me in this thread, no hard feelings; however, I hope you encounter this buyer on eBay. >>
Your policy is bass ackwards. As soon as you got the coin back, you should have issued a refund. The transaction is not canceled until the buyer gets his refund. I'd sooner block you than the buyer.
Buyer has received a full refund including his shipping cost.
eBay has credited me for the final value fee (done via a phone call).
I have blocked the buyer.
My policy of asking for a cancellation before issuing a refund will not change.
Anybody who criticized me in this thread, no hard feelings; however, I hope you encounter this buyer on eBay. >>
I've seen some fairly screwy philosophies regarding eBay but this one just flosted to the top of the screwy heap.
I have a question: If you are so distrustful of eBay, why do you even sell there? I mean, thats what this is really about right? You don't think eBay will refund your Final Value fees right?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
What a waste of time. Your policy is wrong. You verify the returned goods; refund goes out. Default auction cancellation/ fee return within 7 days (worst case).
Simple, end of story.
I just cannot understand having to continue arguing your right to be wrong. And you are. Wrong, I mean. Just wrong.
<< <i>I don't care if you block the guy or not. I made what I think is a very reasonable request, to cancel the transaction so I could get my final value fee back, and the buyer decided he needs to go to war. If that's the kind of person you want to do business with, he's all yours. >>
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but you've got to be kidding. You tried to extort a cancellation from the buyer by withholding money that's rightfully his. Between the two of you, you're the one who most people wouldn't want to do business with. >>
Interesting thread, i hope all sellers do not think this way. Even if you lost the value fee, it is a small price to pay to do business.
I had an ebayer who wanted a 3.5 percent discount for paying with a money order. His reasoning was if he paid with paypal, i would lose that amount. Since he was going to pay with a money order he should be entitled to that 3.5 percent. I would of thought he would have offered to split the fee with me. Not to name names but it was someone on this thread
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
I have not read this thread, but I can say that I bought something from Bayard1908 and "returned" it before it was even shipped for a reasonable concern I believe we both understood, with no trouble and I don't believe I was blocked by him either from his courteous emails.
<< <i>Interesting thread, i hope all sellers do not think this way. Even if you lost the value fee, it is a small price to pay to do business.
I had an ebayer who wanted a 3.5 percent discount for paying with a money order. His reasoning was if he paid with paypal, i would lose that amount. Since he was going to pay with a money order he should be entitled to that 3.5 percent. I would of thought he would have offered to split the fee with me. Not to name names but it was someone on this thread >>
Paypal fees are only 2.9% (and less for high volume sellers). My money order customers act like I'm doing them a favor by not requiring paypal.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
<< <i>Have you received the return? If so, you should have already issued a refund. You're wrong, the buyer is right.
Russ, NCNE >>
+2
I think it would be interesting to tally how many times the OP is actually at "fault" in the block buyer/seller threads.
Not that there aren't any valid reasons to block someone, it's just that I think some come to conclusions too quickly without giving enough thought to the situation and/or asking the right questions.
Joe. >>
I don't care if you block the guy or not. I made what I think is a very reasonable request, to cancel the transaction so I could get my final value fee back, and the buyer decided he needs to go to war. If that's the kind of person you want to do business with, he's all yours. >>
I think what you are seeing is that most don't believe you made a "reasonable request" and once you calm down, you may realize that. People that have replied to your thread, stating that you are going about things in a poor manner, have 10s of thousands of combined ebay sales with 10s of thousands satisfied customers. I would understand that to mean that they have had returns and have handled them in positive ways and are trying to let you know that YOUR way of doing it is not positive for all parties.
You are looking at this very negatively and in a charged way:
"Apparently he inspected it with a microscope" That's negative right there as you are assuming something. Do you have, or do you not have, a return policy and what is the policy? Is it for any reason? Do you have great pictures?
"I put in a transaction cancellation request so I could get MY final value fee refunded" Great...so it's all about you. What about your buyer? Are you a 1-sided seller who wants the money and could care less about the buyer?
"I didn't think this was a big deal because after 7 days of no response, the transaction will cancel by default" Guess what.....many buyers may think it IS a big deal if you haven't refunded their money after getting the product back! You are holding him hostage! Totally uncool.
"I ask him to please cancel the transaction and THEN he will receive an immediate refund" Where is THAT in ebay's rules/guidelines? Was that in your auction "rules"? What gives you the right to set that tone after the fact?
"There's one variable you neglected to mention. eBay has my $30 final value fee and the cooperation of the buyer is required for me to obtain it. " There's one variable you neglected to mention.....YOU HAVE THE BUYER'S FULL AMOUNT OF MONEY and you haven't refunded it. Ebay is NOT the buyer. It is THEIR policy, not his. Stop jacking him around.
You asked folks "What should I do next" and people are telling you to give the guy back a full refund and stop jerking him around. You are taking a simple solution and creating a problem out of it that you will then complain more about. You worry about a negative feedback now, but I doubt you would have had to worry about that if you hadn't decided to jerk him around.
Again, when you relax and rethink what folks have posted, you will likely come to the same conclusions but right now you are too amped up and want to prove you are right to even listen to anyone else that doesn't agree with you.
Reading your continued responses to people, my opinion is that you shouldn't be selling on ebay as you turn the simplest thing into a huge issue for the buyer and want to blame someone else. You can disagree with that, but from how you are handling this, and replying to others, you are not a seller I would want to buy from or trust to do the right thing as you are already showing, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, that you are not doing the right thing
1) The pictures aren't great. You should not state "he must have used a microscope". Totally unfair. Totally uncool. 2) You list a "3 day return" policy. Refund given as "money back". You state no other conditions.
You really should not have jerked the buyer around like you did. Change your written policies if you don't see the light to change your policies yourself.
I believe I see why the set was returned. Their appears to be some color problems with the Lincoln obverse and reverse--possible spotting due to some fugly toning or even carbon spot issues. I cannot tell for sure as at first glance it appears to be just minor toning. This should have been expected as a return liability. But enough said on the issue. Hopefully, no long term ill effects have occurred to either buyer/seller. Best of luck to you both. Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>I think what you are seeing is that most don't believe you made a "reasonable request" and once you calm down, you may realize that. People that have replied to your thread, stating that you are going about things in a poor manner, have 10s of thousands of combined ebay sales with 10s of thousands satisfied customers. I would understand that to mean that they have had returns and have handled them in positive ways and are trying to let you know that YOUR way of doing it is not positive for all parties.
You are looking at this very negatively and in a charged way:
"Apparently he inspected it with a microscope" That's negative right there as you are assuming something. Do you have, or do you not have, a return policy and what is the policy? Is it for any reason? Do you have great pictures?
"I put in a transaction cancellation request so I could get MY final value fee refunded" Great...so it's all about you. What about your buyer? Are you a 1-sided seller who wants the money and could care less about the buyer?
"I didn't think this was a big deal because after 7 days of no response, the transaction will cancel by default" Guess what.....many buyers may think it IS a big deal if you haven't refunded their money after getting the product back! You are holding him hostage! Totally uncool.
"I ask him to please cancel the transaction and THEN he will receive an immediate refund" Where is THAT in ebay's rules/guidelines? Was that in your auction "rules"? What gives you the right to set that tone after the fact?
"There's one variable you neglected to mention. eBay has my $30 final value fee and the cooperation of the buyer is required for me to obtain it. " There's one variable you neglected to mention.....YOU HAVE THE BUYER'S FULL AMOUNT OF MONEY and you haven't refunded it. Ebay is NOT the buyer. It is THEIR policy, not his. Stop jacking him around.
You asked folks "What should I do next" and people are telling you to give the guy back a full refund and stop jerking him around. You are taking a simple solution and creating a problem out of it that you will then complain more about. You worry about a negative feedback now, but I doubt you would have had to worry about that if you hadn't decided to jerk him around.
Again, when you relax and rethink what folks have posted, you will likely come to the same conclusions but right now you are too amped up and want to prove you are right to even listen to anyone else that doesn't agree with you.
Reading your continued responses to people, my opinion is that you shouldn't be selling on ebay as you turn the simplest thing into a huge issue for the buyer and want to blame someone else. You can disagree with that, but from how you are handling this, and replying to others, you are not a seller I would want to buy from or trust to do the right thing as you are already showing, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, that you are not doing the right thing >>
I offer full refunds with no questions asked. A buyer can make a return for any reason or no reason whatsoever. All I expect from a buyer is to cooperate in letting me get my final value fee back. This particular buyer threw a tantrum and went out of his way in an attempt to prevent me from getting my final value fee back. I had to call customer support to get the matter resolved. That's why he's blocked. I don't need the aggravation. There are too many nice people to sell to without the need to deal with destructive troublemakers.
I have many happy eBay customers. If you don't want to be one of them, that is your prerogative. I only started this thread in the hope of sparing other forum members from having to deal with a buyer who has a vindictive self righteous streak.
<< <i>I believe I see why the set was returned. Their appears to be some color problems with the Lincoln obverse and reverse--possible spotting due to some fugly toning or even carbon spot issues. I cannot tell for sure as at first glance it appears to be just minor toning. This should have been expected as a return liability. But enough said on the issue. Hopefully, no long term ill effects have occurred to either buyer/seller. Best of luck to you both. Jim >>
I don't have any problem with people making returns. I accept returns with no questions asked.
<< <i>I believe I see why the set was returned. Their appears to be some color problems with the Lincoln obverse and reverse--possible spotting due to some fugly toning or even carbon spot issues. I cannot tell for sure as at first glance it appears to be just minor toning. This should have been expected as a return liability. But enough said on the issue. Hopefully, no long term ill effects have occurred to either buyer/seller. Best of luck to you both. Jim >>
The seller disclosed this issue in the description.
<< <i>I have many happy eBay customers. If you don't want to be one of them, that is your prerogative. I only started this thread in the hope of sparing other forum members from having to deal with a buyer who has a vindictive self righteous streak. >>
Yeah, you tellum boy! You had no idea they were going to tell you how to run your business instead, did you?
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
Though there are different opinions the different members may have, he brought this to your attention to help you. If you dont like what he has to offer, fine. Also, as he said, he fully refunded the coins to the buyer.
<< <i>I have many happy eBay customers. If you don't want to be one of them, that is your prerogative. I only started this thread in the hope of sparing other forum members from having to deal with a buyer who has a vindictive self righteous streak. >>
Yeah, you tellum boy! You had no idea they were going to tell you how to run your business instead, did you? >>
Frankly, I'm not surprised. I've experienced this kind of group think on the forum previously. It doesn't particularly bother me.
I'll just go on with building my collection and selling my duplicates on eBay.
You know, this thread probably wouldn't have taken the turn it did if you hadn't started out by asking people what they thought you should do...
<< <i>What should I do next: (1)sit tight until I hear from eBay, (2) give the guy a full refund, (3) give the guy a refund minus the final value fee, (4) ship the proof set back to him? >>
and then arguing with them when they answered you.
<< <i>You know, this thread probably wouldn't have taken the turn it did if you hadn't started out by asking people what they thought you should do...
<< <i>What should I do next: (1)sit tight until I hear from eBay, (2) give the guy a full refund, (3) give the guy a refund minus the final value fee, (4) ship the proof set back to him? >>
and then arguing with them when they answered you. >>
This is very wise potatohead-advice. If you ask a question here, be prepared to accept the advice.
Problematic eBay buyer you may want to block
FWIW, problematic = difficult to solve, not troublesome. Lance.
<< <i>You know, this thread probably wouldn't have taken the turn it did if you hadn't started out by asking people what they thought you should do...
<< <i>What should I do next: (1)sit tight until I hear from eBay, (2) give the guy a full refund, (3) give the guy a refund minus the final value fee, (4) ship the proof set back to him? >>
and then arguing with them when they answered you. >>
I mistakenly thought I might get some useful advice, as opposed to people mouthing off, preaching, and making unsupported bombastic statements.
I've only been on this forum for a couple of years; however, I have noticed a decline in quality of discourse over that time.
I just showed up and haven't read past the first page. Here is my take: As a seller I always refund first and cancel transaction second. I wouldn't expect a buyer to want to cancel the transaction until he got his money back. I would think he would want an open transaction in case I didn't refund.
I've only had one guy then say "no" to cancel the transaction. It was a language problem and a quick call the ebay got the transaction canceled and FVF credited.
<< <i>I mistakenly thought I might get some useful advice... >>
If you really did want advice, why did you, less than an hour later (and having heard from only 5 or 6 people), say that you'd already made up your mind?
<< <i>In my mind, canceling the transaction is a necessary condition for receiving a refund. >>
<< <i>Interesting thread, i hope all sellers do not think this way. Even if you lost the value fee, it is a small price to pay to do business.
I had an ebayer who wanted a 3.5 percent discount for paying with a money order. His reasoning was if he paid with paypal, i would lose that amount. Since he was going to pay with a money order he should be entitled to that 3.5 percent. I would of thought he would have offered to split the fee with me. Not to name names but it was someone on this thread >>
Well thats interesting since you can deduct the PayPal fees but not necessarily the discount you extend to the buyer.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>My policy of asking for a cancellation before issuing a refund will not change. >>
It should. By mutually cancelling, the buyer agrees to cancel the transaction before the seller refunds the money. In the eyes of the buyer, they may feel that a seller may claim the money was already refunded, since the buyer agreed to the cancellation.
Also, given that you get your FVF fees back anyway if the buyer fails to respond, all you are doing is creating unnecessary customer dissatisfaction.
In my opinion, you are in the wrong here. It is not reasonable to interject terms into a sales transaction after the fact and hold the customer's rightful refund while waiting for a canceled transaction.
To me, it's just as simple as that, and in the future you might simply document this term if it is that concerning to you so buyers can go into the transaction with their eyes open rather than be surprised (and possibly react badly).
While none of this necessarily justifies how your buyer (over)reacted, IMO, it may circumvent this situation from reoccurring in the future, and you were asking for trouble when you introduced a term between a customer and his rightfully-deserved refund.
Respectfully...Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Interesting situation, and interesting thread. I'm a fellow decade-plus ebay seller.
If you had actually stated somewhere in the auction that refunds would be given only after mutual cancellation of the transaction, then I might conceivably understand your position, even though I still wouldn't agree... plus such a codocil would be totally unenforceable (heck, terms of sale in general aren't enforceable anymore, but I digress). But, you had no such terms in the auction. Returns can be a pain, I know...and given that this set sold well below Greysheet bid, you'd think that there would be ample incentive for the buyer to keep the set- but, that's the risk you take selling on the 'bay and you obviously knew that going in.
Some would say you were used as a free approval service here, and perhaps that's true. If so, it kinda stinks- but you still are obligated to refund the buyer regardless, and without caveats made up after the fact. Whether or not you agree with the usage of the term or intended to do so, you were indeed technically holding the buyer's refund hostage until they agreed to cancel the sale. It appears that you have finally straightened things out, which is good I suppose, but you should not consider it a vindication of your policies or methods...what you did was unethical at a minimum. Had you simply refunded in a timely fashion, your final value fees would have been returned without incident and without any need for antipathy between you and the buyer. Now you still face a possible- if not likely- red donut on your FB record (and poor DSRs as well), not to mention apparently joining the BBL of several ebayers...all because you were worried about all of a piddling $30- that would have eventually been refunded anyway.
I strongly recommend reviewing/reconsidering your policies and at a minimum, stating them clearly in your auctions. Just because this is the first occurence doesn't mean it will be the only one; in fact you can almost bet it will happen again sometime in the future. Good Luck.
When so many posters reply and the consensus is as strong as it is here, that should tell you something, loud and clear.
Does it guarantee that you were in the wrong? No. But at the very least, it says that you should be open to that possibility. And I don't see a hint of that in your replies.
<< <i>When so many posters reply and the consensus is as strong as it is here, that should tell you something, loud and clear.
Does it guarantee that you were in the wrong? No. But at the very least, it says that you should be open to that possibility. And I don't see a hint of that in your replies. >>
Do you think he cares what you or anyone here thinks? Or is open to suggestions?? I think not!! He just doesn't get it. Some people just never get it.
Interesting topic. I've had this exact same scenario happen to me before as a buyer. I returned an item to the seller, and received the 'request to cancel transaction' form prior to receiving my refund. In that case, I just politely let him know that I'll gladly OK the cancellation request--but not until I actually have the refund in-hand. He seemed to be OK with that, and of course I kept my word and OK'd the cancellation request immediately after getting my refund. Each of us is made whole, and everybody's happy. Win-win.
As a seller, my policy is simple. I'll accept any return, no questions asked, and refund the buyer immediately upon receipt of returned goods. I then send a 'cancel transaction' request to the buyer, along with a brief note explaining that this process is just a formality to let eBay know that the item has been returned, so that the transaction can be 'officially' closed per eBay records. Notice I don't mention anything about 'Final Value' fees, nor anything else that doesn't concern the customer. Using that method, so far 100% of my buyers have agreed to the cancellation request after the fact... even the ones who were initially rude and combative.
Bottom line is, you should never argue with the customer--ever. As long you are courteous and professional at all times, buyers are much more likely to reciprocate that, and thus any problem/situation is much more likely have a positive outcome overall. If only more people could grasp this simple concept, the world would be a much better place.
Good topic,one I have not "seen" here discussed. What the OP does with the suggestions,does not matter that much.More important, perhaps there are many reading this thread,that have a similar policy or new to selling and will benefit from this(Along with the massive amount of other info on forum ...). The rare times I get a return.I refund right away,then request FVF credit. Really is so rare to get a return and even more rare for buyer not to comply with FVF request,it's hardly worth thinking/worrying about.
<< <i>When so many posters reply and the consensus is as strong as it is here, that should tell you something, loud and clear.
Does it guarantee that you were in the wrong? No. But at the very least, it says that you should be open to that possibility. And I don't see a hint of that in your replies. >>
Do you think he cares what you or anyone here thinks? Or is open to suggestions?? I think not!! He just doesn't get it. Some people just never get it.
edit for spelling and >>
I think he cares enough to share his views, but as a merchant it's important that I share something my mom taught me when I started in business at the age of 12 delivering the newspaper. She simply said : "Never forget : The customer is always right." This is a critical component in succeeding, and an easy attitude to adopt. The customer is right. I am not saying the seller is wrong, so bandwagon riders please get off at the next stop. If the seller cannot comprehend what Russ initially said, than grace surely eludes him. To the OP, I'm sorry about that final value fee, but sometimes we get burned in the course of business. We ought not make it worse by alienating our friends in the business world.
<< <i>...as a merchant it's important that I share something my mom taught me when I started in business at the age of 12 delivering the newspaper. She simply said : "Never forget : The customer is always right." This is a critical component in succeeding, and an easy attitude to adopt. The customer is right. >>
Although I understand what people are getting at with that saying, in reality, the customer *isn't* always right.
Suppose you sold a coin to someone who, upon receipt, claimed that it wasn't as nice as you had described and demanded his money back with the additional condition that he would be keeping the coin for his troubles. Would you say he was right? He is, after all, the customer.
edited to add... for any of you eBay sellers who believe the customer *is* always right, do you have anybody on your "Blocked Bidder" list?
Mr Potatohead, your business philosophy works for you, and mine works for me. Thank you for your interest in mine All suppositions are just that. In your scenario, this alleged person would not be a customer, but a thief. How could he be a customer if he were lying and stealing ?
I've read all the posts so far and one thing that has no been said is that Ebay specifically tells the buyer to NOT cancel an auction if they have not received their refund yet. It says so in the "request to cancel" email that Ebay sends to the buyer. So, don't blame the buyer for following Ebay policy.
<< <i>You know, this thread probably wouldn't have taken the turn it did if you hadn't started out by asking people what they thought you should do...
<< <i>What should I do next: (1)sit tight until I hear from eBay, (2) give the guy a full refund, (3) give the guy a refund minus the final value fee, (4) ship the proof set back to him? >>
and then arguing with them when they answered you. >>
I mistakenly thought I might get some useful advice, as opposed to people mouthing off, preaching, and making unsupported bombastic statements.
I've only been on this forum for a couple of years; however, I have noticed a decline in quality of discourse over that time. >>
I've had buyers refuse to cancel transactions many times. It par for the FeePay game. You can request a FVF refund here with an explanation AFTER you've refunded the buyer.
<< <i>If you ask a question here, be prepared to accept the advice. >>
Wouldn't it be better to say "consider the advice"? Not all the advice is acceptable some is not even rational.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
+1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>I have blocked the buyer.
My policy of asking for a cancellation before issuing a refund will not change.
Anybody who criticized me in this thread, no hard feelings; however, I hope you encounter this buyer on eBay. >>
Your policy is bass ackwards. As soon as you got the coin back, you should have issued a refund. The transaction is not canceled until the buyer gets his refund. I'd sooner block you than the buyer.
<< <i> Apparently he inspected it with a microscope and decided to return it >>
You don't happen to know what kind of scope it was do you?
<< <i>END OF THE STORY:
Buyer has received a full refund including his shipping cost.
eBay has credited me for the final value fee (done via a phone call).
I have blocked the buyer.
My policy of asking for a cancellation before issuing a refund will not change.
Anybody who criticized me in this thread, no hard feelings; however, I hope you encounter this buyer on eBay. >>
I've seen some fairly screwy philosophies regarding eBay but this one just flosted to the top of the screwy heap.
I have a question: If you are so distrustful of eBay, why do you even sell there? I mean, thats what this is really about right? You don't think eBay will refund your Final Value fees right?
The name is LEE!
Simple, end of story.
I just cannot understand having to continue arguing your right to be wrong. And you are. Wrong, I mean. Just wrong.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't care if you block the guy or not. I made what I think is a very reasonable request, to cancel the transaction so I could get my final value fee back, and the buyer decided he needs to go to war. If that's the kind of person you want to do business with, he's all yours. >>
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but you've got to be kidding. You tried to extort a cancellation from the buyer by withholding money that's rightfully his. Between the two of you, you're the one who most people wouldn't want to do business with. >>
said very well I agree 100%
<< <i>
My policy of asking for a cancellation before issuing a refund will not change.
>>
Then I will stay tuned for your next installment of "Block the Bidder".
Because this will happen again.
I had an ebayer who wanted a 3.5 percent discount for paying with a money order. His reasoning was if he paid with paypal, i would lose that amount. Since he was going to pay with a money order he should be entitled to that 3.5 percent. I would of thought he would have offered to split the fee with me.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Cancel request response is not to be made into a contingent precedent for a refund.
You cannot impose unilateral "conditions" to be met before you meet your obligations.
Free Trial
I have not read this thread, but I can say that I bought something from Bayard1908 and "returned" it before it was even shipped for a reasonable concern I believe we both understood, with no trouble and I don't believe I was blocked by him either from his courteous emails.
Best,
Eric
<< <i>Interesting thread, i hope all sellers do not think this way. Even if you lost the value fee, it is a small price to pay to do business.
I had an ebayer who wanted a 3.5 percent discount for paying with a money order. His reasoning was if he paid with paypal, i would lose that amount. Since he was going to pay with a money order he should be entitled to that 3.5 percent. I would of thought he would have offered to split the fee with me.
Paypal fees are only 2.9% (and less for high volume sellers). My money order customers act like I'm doing them a favor by not requiring paypal.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Have you received the return? If so, you should have already issued a refund. You're wrong, the buyer is right.
Russ, NCNE >>
+2
I think it would be interesting to tally how many times the OP is actually at "fault" in the block buyer/seller threads.
Not that there aren't any valid reasons to block someone, it's just that I think some come to conclusions too quickly without giving enough thought to the situation and/or asking the right questions.
Joe. >>
I don't care if you block the guy or not. I made what I think is a very reasonable request, to cancel the transaction so I could get my final value fee back, and the buyer decided he needs to go to war. If that's the kind of person you want to do business with, he's all yours. >>
I think what you are seeing is that most don't believe you made a "reasonable request" and once you calm down, you may realize that.
People that have replied to your thread, stating that you are going about things in a poor manner, have 10s of thousands of combined ebay sales with 10s of thousands satisfied customers. I would understand that to mean that they have had returns and have handled them in positive ways and are trying to let you know that YOUR way of doing it is not positive for all parties.
You are looking at this very negatively and in a charged way:
"Apparently he inspected it with a microscope"
That's negative right there as you are assuming something. Do you have, or do you not have, a return policy and what is the policy? Is it for any reason? Do you have great pictures?
"I put in a transaction cancellation request so I could get MY final value fee refunded"
Great...so it's all about you. What about your buyer? Are you a 1-sided seller who wants the money and could care less about the buyer?
"I didn't think this was a big deal because after 7 days of no response, the transaction will cancel by default"
Guess what.....many buyers may think it IS a big deal if you haven't refunded their money after getting the product back! You are holding him hostage! Totally uncool.
"I ask him to please cancel the transaction and THEN he will receive an immediate refund"
Where is THAT in ebay's rules/guidelines? Was that in your auction "rules"? What gives you the right to set that tone after the fact?
"There's one variable you neglected to mention. eBay has my $30 final value fee and the cooperation of the buyer is required for me to obtain it. "
There's one variable you neglected to mention.....YOU HAVE THE BUYER'S FULL AMOUNT OF MONEY and you haven't refunded it. Ebay is NOT the buyer. It is THEIR policy, not his. Stop jacking him around.
You asked folks "What should I do next" and people are telling you to give the guy back a full refund and stop jerking him around. You are taking a simple solution and creating a problem out of it that you will then complain more about.
You worry about a negative feedback now, but I doubt you would have had to worry about that if you hadn't decided to jerk him around.
Again, when you relax and rethink what folks have posted, you will likely come to the same conclusions but right now you are too amped up and want to prove you are right to even listen to anyone else that doesn't agree with you.
Reading your continued responses to people, my opinion is that you shouldn't be selling on ebay as you turn the simplest thing into a huge issue for the buyer and want to blame someone else. You can disagree with that, but from how you are handling this, and replying to others, you are not a seller I would want to buy from or trust to do the right thing as you are already showing, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, that you are not doing the right thing
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
1) The pictures aren't great. You should not state "he must have used a microscope". Totally unfair. Totally uncool.
2) You list a "3 day return" policy. Refund given as "money back". You state no other conditions.
You really should not have jerked the buyer around like you did. Change your written policies if you don't see the light to change your policies yourself.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Would the OP please state what name he sells under on eBay? I would like to make sure I never bid on any of your auctions.
<< <i>Problematic eBay buyer you may want to block >>
Appears buyer was problematic due to seller problematicism.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>I think what you are seeing is that most don't believe you made a "reasonable request" and once you calm down, you may realize that.
People that have replied to your thread, stating that you are going about things in a poor manner, have 10s of thousands of combined ebay sales with 10s of thousands satisfied customers. I would understand that to mean that they have had returns and have handled them in positive ways and are trying to let you know that YOUR way of doing it is not positive for all parties.
You are looking at this very negatively and in a charged way:
"Apparently he inspected it with a microscope"
That's negative right there as you are assuming something. Do you have, or do you not have, a return policy and what is the policy? Is it for any reason? Do you have great pictures?
"I put in a transaction cancellation request so I could get MY final value fee refunded"
Great...so it's all about you. What about your buyer? Are you a 1-sided seller who wants the money and could care less about the buyer?
"I didn't think this was a big deal because after 7 days of no response, the transaction will cancel by default"
Guess what.....many buyers may think it IS a big deal if you haven't refunded their money after getting the product back! You are holding him hostage! Totally uncool.
"I ask him to please cancel the transaction and THEN he will receive an immediate refund"
Where is THAT in ebay's rules/guidelines? Was that in your auction "rules"? What gives you the right to set that tone after the fact?
"There's one variable you neglected to mention. eBay has my $30 final value fee and the cooperation of the buyer is required for me to obtain it. "
There's one variable you neglected to mention.....YOU HAVE THE BUYER'S FULL AMOUNT OF MONEY and you haven't refunded it. Ebay is NOT the buyer. It is THEIR policy, not his. Stop jacking him around.
You asked folks "What should I do next" and people are telling you to give the guy back a full refund and stop jerking him around. You are taking a simple solution and creating a problem out of it that you will then complain more about.
You worry about a negative feedback now, but I doubt you would have had to worry about that if you hadn't decided to jerk him around.
Again, when you relax and rethink what folks have posted, you will likely come to the same conclusions but right now you are too amped up and want to prove you are right to even listen to anyone else that doesn't agree with you.
Reading your continued responses to people, my opinion is that you shouldn't be selling on ebay as you turn the simplest thing into a huge issue for the buyer and want to blame someone else. You can disagree with that, but from how you are handling this, and replying to others, you are not a seller I would want to buy from or trust to do the right thing as you are already showing, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, that you are not doing the right thing
I offer full refunds with no questions asked. A buyer can make a return for any reason or no reason whatsoever. All I expect from a buyer is to cooperate in letting me get my final value fee back. This particular buyer threw a tantrum and went out of his way in an attempt to prevent me from getting my final value fee back. I had to call customer support to get the matter resolved. That's why he's blocked. I don't need the aggravation. There are too many nice people to sell to without the need to deal with destructive troublemakers.
I have many happy eBay customers. If you don't want to be one of them, that is your prerogative. I only started this thread in the hope of sparing other forum members from having to deal with a buyer who has a vindictive self righteous streak.
<< <i>I believe I see why the set was returned. Their appears to be some color problems with the Lincoln obverse and reverse--possible spotting due to some fugly toning or even carbon spot issues. I cannot tell for sure as at first glance it appears to be just minor toning. This should have been expected as a return liability. But enough said on the issue. Hopefully, no long term ill effects have occurred to either buyer/seller. Best of luck to you both.
Jim >>
I don't have any problem with people making returns. I accept returns with no questions asked.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>I believe I see why the set was returned. Their appears to be some color problems with the Lincoln obverse and reverse--possible spotting due to some fugly toning or even carbon spot issues. I cannot tell for sure as at first glance it appears to be just minor toning. This should have been expected as a return liability. But enough said on the issue. Hopefully, no long term ill effects have occurred to either buyer/seller. Best of luck to you both.
Jim >>
The seller disclosed this issue in the description.
<< <i>So in effect, you wouldn't have considered making the title of your thread "Problematic Proof Set sold on eBay"? >>
The proof set is not problematic, except that it's surplus to my collection.
<< <i>I have many happy eBay customers. If you don't want to be one of them, that is your prerogative. I only started this thread in the hope of sparing other forum members from having to deal with a buyer who has a vindictive self righteous streak. >>
Yeah, you tellum boy! You had no idea they were going to tell you how to run your business instead, did you?
<< <i>
<< <i>I have many happy eBay customers. If you don't want to be one of them, that is your prerogative. I only started this thread in the hope of sparing other forum members from having to deal with a buyer who has a vindictive self righteous streak. >>
Yeah, you tellum boy! You had no idea they were going to tell you how to run your business instead, did you? >>
Frankly, I'm not surprised. I've experienced this kind of group think on the forum previously. It doesn't particularly bother me.
I'll just go on with building my collection and selling my duplicates on eBay.
<< <i>What should I do next: (1)sit tight until I hear from eBay, (2) give the guy a full refund, (3) give the guy a refund minus the final value fee, (4) ship the proof set back to him? >>
and then arguing with them when they answered you.
<< <i>You know, this thread probably wouldn't have taken the turn it did if you hadn't started out by asking people what they thought you should do...
<< <i>What should I do next: (1)sit tight until I hear from eBay, (2) give the guy a full refund, (3) give the guy a refund minus the final value fee, (4) ship the proof set back to him? >>
and then arguing with them when they answered you. >>
This is very wise potatohead-advice. If you ask a question here, be prepared to accept the advice.
Problematic eBay buyer you may want to block
FWIW, problematic = difficult to solve, not troublesome.
Lance.
Wow.
<< <i>You know, this thread probably wouldn't have taken the turn it did if you hadn't started out by asking people what they thought you should do...
<< <i>What should I do next: (1)sit tight until I hear from eBay, (2) give the guy a full refund, (3) give the guy a refund minus the final value fee, (4) ship the proof set back to him? >>
and then arguing with them when they answered you. >>
I mistakenly thought I might get some useful advice, as opposed to people mouthing off, preaching, and making unsupported bombastic statements.
I've only been on this forum for a couple of years; however, I have noticed a decline in quality of discourse over that time.
I've only had one guy then say "no" to cancel the transaction. It was a language problem and a quick call the ebay got the transaction canceled and FVF credited.
--Jerry
<< <i>I mistakenly thought I might get some useful advice... >>
If you really did want advice, why did you, less than an hour later (and having heard from only 5 or 6 people), say that you'd already made up your mind?
<< <i>In my mind, canceling the transaction is a necessary condition for receiving a refund. >>
<< <i>Interesting thread, i hope all sellers do not think this way. Even if you lost the value fee, it is a small price to pay to do business.
I had an ebayer who wanted a 3.5 percent discount for paying with a money order. His reasoning was if he paid with paypal, i would lose that amount. Since he was going to pay with a money order he should be entitled to that 3.5 percent. I would of thought he would have offered to split the fee with me.
Well thats interesting since you can deduct the PayPal fees but not necessarily the discount you extend to the buyer.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>My policy of asking for a cancellation before issuing a refund will not change. >>
It should. By mutually cancelling, the buyer agrees to cancel the transaction before the seller refunds the money. In the eyes of the buyer, they may feel that a seller may claim the money was already refunded, since the buyer agreed to the cancellation.
Also, given that you get your FVF fees back anyway if the buyer fails to respond, all you are doing is creating unnecessary customer dissatisfaction.
In my opinion, you are in the wrong here. It is not reasonable to interject terms into a sales transaction after the fact and hold the customer's rightful refund while waiting for a canceled transaction.
To me, it's just as simple as that, and in the future you might simply document this term if it is that concerning to you so buyers can go into the transaction with their eyes open rather than be surprised (and possibly react badly).
While none of this necessarily justifies how your buyer (over)reacted, IMO, it may circumvent this situation from reoccurring in the future, and you were asking for trouble when you introduced a term between a customer and his rightfully-deserved refund.
Respectfully...Mike
If you had actually stated somewhere in the auction that refunds would be given only after mutual cancellation of the transaction, then I might conceivably understand your position, even though I still wouldn't agree... plus such a codocil would be totally unenforceable (heck, terms of sale in general aren't enforceable anymore, but I digress). But, you had no such terms in the auction. Returns can be a pain, I know...and given that this set sold well below Greysheet bid, you'd think that there would be ample incentive for the buyer to keep the set- but, that's the risk you take selling on the 'bay and you obviously knew that going in.
Some would say you were used as a free approval service here, and perhaps that's true. If so, it kinda stinks- but you still are obligated to refund the buyer regardless, and without caveats made up after the fact. Whether or not you agree with the usage of the term or intended to do so, you were indeed technically holding the buyer's refund hostage until they agreed to cancel the sale. It appears that you have finally straightened things out, which is good I suppose, but you should not consider it a vindication of your policies or methods...what you did was unethical at a minimum. Had you simply refunded in a timely fashion, your final value fees would have been returned without incident and without any need for antipathy between you and the buyer. Now you still face a possible- if not likely- red donut on your FB record (and poor DSRs as well), not to mention apparently joining the BBL of several ebayers...all because you were worried about all of a piddling $30- that would have eventually been refunded anyway.
I strongly recommend reviewing/reconsidering your policies and at a minimum, stating them clearly in your auctions. Just because this is the first occurence doesn't mean it will be the only one; in fact you can almost bet it will happen again sometime in the future. Good Luck.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Does it guarantee that you were in the wrong? No. But at the very least, it says that you should be open to that possibility. And I don't see a hint of that in your replies.
<< <i>When so many posters reply and the consensus is as strong as it is here, that should tell you something, loud and clear.
Does it guarantee that you were in the wrong? No. But at the very least, it says that you should be open to that possibility. And I don't see a hint of that in your replies. >>
Do you think he cares what you or anyone here thinks? Or is open to suggestions?? I think not!! He just doesn't get it. Some people just never get it.
edit for spelling and
As a seller, my policy is simple. I'll accept any return, no questions asked, and refund the buyer immediately upon receipt of returned goods. I then send a 'cancel transaction' request to the buyer, along with a brief note explaining that this process is just a formality to let eBay know that the item has been returned, so that the transaction can be 'officially' closed per eBay records. Notice I don't mention anything about 'Final Value' fees, nor anything else that doesn't concern the customer. Using that method, so far 100% of my buyers have agreed to the cancellation request after the fact... even the ones who were initially rude and combative.
Bottom line is, you should never argue with the customer--ever. As long you are courteous and professional at all times, buyers are much more likely to reciprocate that, and thus any problem/situation is much more likely have a positive outcome overall. If only more people could grasp this simple concept, the world would be a much better place.
<< <i>
<< <i>When so many posters reply and the consensus is as strong as it is here, that should tell you something, loud and clear.
Does it guarantee that you were in the wrong? No. But at the very least, it says that you should be open to that possibility. And I don't see a hint of that in your replies. >>
Do you think he cares what you or anyone here thinks? Or is open to suggestions?? I think not!! He just doesn't get it. Some people just never get it.
edit for spelling and
I think he cares enough to share his views, but as a merchant it's important that I share something my mom taught me when I started in business at the age of 12 delivering the newspaper. She simply said : "Never forget : The customer is always right." This is a critical component in succeeding, and an easy attitude to adopt. The customer is right. I am not saying the seller is wrong, so bandwagon riders please get off at the next stop. If the seller cannot comprehend what Russ initially said, than grace surely eludes him. To the OP, I'm sorry about that final value fee, but sometimes we get burned in the course of business. We ought not make it worse by alienating our friends in the business world.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>...as a merchant it's important that I share something my mom taught me when I started in business at the age of 12 delivering the newspaper. She simply said : "Never forget : The customer is always right." This is a critical component in succeeding, and an easy attitude to adopt. The customer is right. >>
Although I understand what people are getting at with that saying, in reality, the customer *isn't* always right.
Suppose you sold a coin to someone who, upon receipt, claimed that it wasn't as nice as you had described and demanded his money back with the additional condition that he would be keeping the coin for his troubles. Would you say he was right? He is, after all, the customer.
edited to add... for any of you eBay sellers who believe the customer *is* always right, do you have anybody on your "Blocked Bidder" list?
All suppositions are just that. In your scenario, this alleged person would not be a customer, but a thief. How could he be a customer if he were lying and stealing ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>You know, this thread probably wouldn't have taken the turn it did if you hadn't started out by asking people what they thought you should do...
<< <i>What should I do next: (1)sit tight until I hear from eBay, (2) give the guy a full refund, (3) give the guy a refund minus the final value fee, (4) ship the proof set back to him? >>
and then arguing with them when they answered you. >>
I mistakenly thought I might get some useful advice, as opposed to people mouthing off, preaching, and making unsupported bombastic statements.
I've only been on this forum for a couple of years; however, I have noticed a decline in quality of discourse over that time. >>
I've had buyers refuse to cancel transactions many times. It par for the FeePay game.
You can request a FVF refund here with an explanation AFTER you've refunded the buyer.
<< <i>If you ask a question here, be prepared to accept the advice. >>
Wouldn't it be better to say "consider the advice"? Not all the advice is acceptable some is not even rational.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire