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Moving coins out of Secure Plus holders
RYK
Posts: 35,801 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have 3 coins that I crossed from PCGS to Secure Plus in the spring. None of the coins received the coveted "+", but all are very nice examples for what they are . (One is a finest known, and another was downcrossed from a higher grade NGC holder.)
PCGS is coming to town this week, and I am seriously considering resubmitting them for either regrade in a non-Secure Plus holder or reholder in a non-Secure Plus holder (assuming that this is offered). I have no plans to sell the coins at this point, but sometimes I hastily change my mind and am concerned that the coins are stigmatized by being not "+" and in the Secure Plus holder.
What are the pros and cons of doing this?
PCGS is coming to town this week, and I am seriously considering resubmitting them for either regrade in a non-Secure Plus holder or reholder in a non-Secure Plus holder (assuming that this is offered). I have no plans to sell the coins at this point, but sometimes I hastily change my mind and am concerned that the coins are stigmatized by being not "+" and in the Secure Plus holder.
What are the pros and cons of doing this?
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Comments
The obvious pros are... are... ?
<< <i>The obvious pros are... are... ? >>
They wouldn't be stigmatized as non-"+" coins.
Being in a Secure Plus holder without a "+" is what CAC would be like if they had a brown bean. There's a reason why they don't have brown beans
<< <i>
<< <i>The obvious pros are... are... ? >>
They wouldn't be stigmatized as non-"+" coins.
Being in a Secure Plus holder without a "+" is what CAC would be like if they had a brown bean. There's a reason why they don't have brown beans
Very well put,
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>I think a number of people are giving far too much weight to the so-called stigma of non-plus coins in Secure Plus holders. I have seen many great non-plus coins and a number of not-so-impressive plus coins in such holders. Grading is still subjective, inconsistent and imperfect and always will be. >>
Mark, the slab essentially broadcasts that the coin has recently been graded and is not high end for the grade.
<< <i>If those coins you submitted look good to you, and your eye is pretty good...why not go for a C** green bean? >>
IMO, it would be nice to get them out of Secure Plus before going for a bean.
<< <i>If those coins you submitted look good to you, and your eye is pretty good...why not go for a C** green bean? >>
Is a cac green bean worth more in the coin market than a +? I think all this nonsense is getting to be a bit silly.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>If those coins you submitted look good to you, and your eye is pretty good...why not go for a C** green bean? >>
IMO, it would be nice to get them out of Secure Plus before going for a bean. >>
My thinking as well. Why bias the stickering firm?
<< <i>I think a number of people are giving far too much weight to the so-called stigma of non-plus coins in Secure Plus holders. I have seen many great non-plus coins and a number of not-so-impressive plus coins in such holders. Grading is still subjective, inconsistent and imperfect and always will be. >>
The PCGS Price Guide isn't subjective
I have an idea sell th coins and buy some in plastic you like better!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I think a number of people are giving far too much weight to the so-called stigma of non-plus coins in Secure Plus holders. I have seen many great non-plus coins and a number of not-so-impressive plus coins in such holders. Grading is still subjective, inconsistent and imperfect and always will be. >>
Mark, the slab essentially broadcasts that the coin has recently been graded and is not high end for the grade. >>
Robert, and those buyers who look at the COINS and know what they're doing, will judge the coins on their own merits.
If your coins are truly deserving of a plus, you should be able to get plus money for them, anyway. And if enough coins that don't deserve the plus end up getting it, the premiums for plus coins will be negligible.
If you don't plan to sell in the near future, why not save your money and see how you (and the market) feel about this stuff at a later date?
<< <i>Mark, the slab essentially broadcasts that the coin has recently been graded and is not high end for the grade. >>
Except that if the coin was simply reholdered, it wasn't evaluated for the plus. And now, you can get a plus on almost any submission, so any current label may be looked down upon if it doesn't have the plus. If you're not planning to sell, keep the coin where it is. Chances are the perceptions will change as the plusses and SecurePlus holders both become more mainstay, and your decision should be based on the perceptions when you're ready to sell, not now. At worst, if delays your sale by two weeks in the future. At best, it saves you the reholdering fees and your coins sell for no less, or perhaps more, when it's time to sell.
<< <i>How many times on this form have I heard its about the coin and not the holder? You people are funny. What a joke! So RYK is it about the coins or the plastic?
I have an idea sell th coins and buy some in plastic you like better!! >>
Dude, I like the coins and do not like the holder. How's that? It's like having a beautiful painting in an ugly frame that devalues the artwork. I want the coin in a "frame" that complements the coin, not one that detracts from it.
The mid-high end dealers from whom I purchase most of my coins, including Mark (and DWN, CRO, Legend, and Gold Rush Gallery) have had vanishingly few coins for sale in the Secure Plus holders. They also must have come to the conclusion that the SP holder is a sales liability. If it helped sell coins (either for more money or more quickly), don't you think these dealers would have their coins slabbed with Secure Plus?
<< <i>Sorry...
Imagine you wanted them in non-SP holders, waited, and then they discontinued them? How would you feel then? Strike while the iron is hot!
<< <i>
<< <i>I think a number of people are giving far too much weight to the so-called stigma of non-plus coins in Secure Plus holders. I have seen many great non-plus coins and a number of not-so-impressive plus coins in such holders. Grading is still subjective, inconsistent and imperfect and always will be. >>
Mark, the slab essentially broadcasts that the coin has recently been graded and is not high end for the grade. >>
Which is why I am hesitant to submit coins for plusses...by not submitting at least there will always be a question of the possibility of a plus by some.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
From being staunch supporter of the buy the coin and not the holder- to someone who only cares about whether pcgs thinks the coin deserves a plus...
I can understand that you want your coins to at least be SOLID for the grade and carry a green bean but as many have said- grading is subjective.
I asked John Albanese if there's been more than a few pcgs/ngc 66+ St.'s that didnt sticker. In a nutshell the answer was YES.
That answer goes for a many coins that get the plus.
One particular coin I asked him about was a pcgs ms65+ St.
He didnt like the coin any higher than a 64.
RYK? REALLY?
<< <i>
<< <i>How many times on this form have I heard its about the coin and not the holder? You people are funny. What a joke! So RYK is it about the coins or the plastic?
I have an idea sell th coins and buy some in plastic you like better!! >>
Dude, I like the coins and do not like the holder. How's that? It's like having a beautiful painting in an ugly frame that devalues the artwork. I want the coin in a "frame" that complements the coin, not one that detracts from it.
The mid-high end dealers from whom I purchase most of my coins, including Mark (and DWN, CRO, Legend, and Gold Rush Gallery) have had vanishingly few coins for sale in the Secure Plus holders. They also must have come to the conclusion that the SP holder is a sales liability. If it helped sell coins (either for more money or more quickly), don't you think these dealers would have their coins slabbed with Secure Plus? >>
Robert, I can't speak for other dealers, but, you are mistaken with respect to my inventory and your assumptions.
I have very few coins for sale in Secure Plus holders, because such coins comprise only a tiny percentage of what is out there for me to be able to buy. I don't go out of my way to buy or avoid them. In time, as more Secure Plus coins appear on the market, based on the percentages/populations, I will have more of them for sale. It really is that simple.
Why have a negative on the holder when you can avoid it?
I think a lot of us over think these things a bit (myself included). I wouldn't pass on a coin because it is in a SecurePlus holder without a +, and I don't think you would either. The + is only supposed to be awarded for the top 15% or thereabouts so I just don't think the stigma should be that significant.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
<< <i>The + is only supposed to be awarded for the top 15% or thereabouts so I just don't think the stigma should be that significant. >>
The problem is, as you state, that there is a stigma.
I'd ask whether the coins are more enjoyable in holders that do not highlight that.
<< <i>I think it's very simple and comes down to:
Why have a negative on the holder when you can avoid it? >>
The vast majority of the people I deal with don't seem to see the Secure Plus holders as a negative. The coins I have had in those holders have sold as fast as or faster than those in other holders.
And by the way, I have submitted a number of Secure Plus regrades for clients, and the % of success has been as high as for non Secure Plus coins. Those of you who see Secure Plus as a big negative, should take off your reverse-rose colored glasses.
<< <i>Those of you who see Secure Plus as a big negative >>
It's only a negative when there's no "+"
<< <i>TRUTH from Realone
I think someone else has a prior claim to TRUTH. I recommend you use something like:
* REAL
* REAL from Realone
* REALTRUTH from Realone
* WHATISREAL from Realone
Or are you just planning on submitting for the non secure plus holder?
When I started collecting, we didn't have any of this stuff. We focused on the individual coin. While to a degree the above can save us time in separating the wheat from the chaff, we have to remember that all of the above are done by individuals, and as good as these individuals are at their craft, sometimes, they don't get it right. Over time, I've seen a fair number of grades on holders, stars (haven't seen enough plusses to comment) and stickers with which I disagreed, and wouldn't want the coins in my collection.
As Mark wrote, people who know how to grade coins will pay a premium for a nice coin for the grade, irrespective of the above. Robert, I'd tell you to save your money. Furthermore, if you don't plan on selling these particular coins in the near future, unless you're involved with the registry set phenomenon, of which I have nothing to do with for a number of reasons, none of it really matters.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
2) Many coins in Secure Plus holders were not regraded but were simply reholdered.
3) All coins graded since August 1st have been eligible for a Plus grade.......
Thanks
It's always about the coin..........until it's time to sell........then it's about the plastic. And the more your slab looks like a NASCAR stocker the better.
roadrunner
In the past, I have countered with "buy the coin, sell the holder", which makes a lot of sense to me. If it does not make sense to you, you are either not selling many coins or not selling them very well.
<< <i>"buy the coin, sell the holder" >>
I like that
I like that......
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
you thought the coins were at least close to the + so try it again. Crack the out and submit them under REGULAR level and you'll get them back in the holder you want them in, possibly with a plus.
--Jerry
That's a hideous carpet.
<< <i>How about submitting for regrade in the present SecurePlus holder. Ask PCGS to reholder into the regular holder, only if the coin does not receive the Plus. Even if the coin grades a point higher, you still want the regular holder. >>
My guess is that PCGS does not want to combine services. And that a submitter would be asking - no, make that begging - for disappointment and/or trouble by making that type of request.
To each his or her own!
Best Regards!
I agree with you 100%. I would do the same. I've said it before, I believe strongly there is a stigma by some (and maybe from a would buyer of your coin- you would never know). So why not eliminate the stigma it altogether? This really has nothing to do with buy the coin not the holder. It has everything to do with marketing your coins. PCGS is the greatest marketers of coins peroid. They messed up a little on Secure Plus non Pluses. It happens. JMHO. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
As it is now, ANY holder can contain a coin with a "+" or without.
Secure Plus is the name for the "I've seen you somewhere before" service.
Now, if you are thinking that pre-"+" and post-"+" plain holders look the same, and perhaps someone will see a plain holder and not realize it recently graded and didn't make a "+" then that is a different story.
The cons would include the fees, and downgrade or genuine potential.
The pros are that you >Might< instill hope in someone that it'll pull at plus. (?) Of course, even in a secure plus holder they could still upgrade... This is one giant misunderstanding by many, and at one point in the past I even read where Laura indicated she thought secure plus holders locked in grades forever. As DW pointed out in the Q&A section of his post-announcement thread, Grades Are Not Locked In With Secure Plus. So, that person with the hope for a "+" would misunderstand the intentions of a Secure Plus holder.... although I guess some are paying homage to the "+" gods by avoiding the Secure Plus service so they can "sneak a resub by..."
People are forgetting what the "Secure" part of the program is.
I was only referring to Secure Plus gold shield holders that don't get the plus. Those for sure you know "didn't get the plus". I take it for granted RYK was speaking of the same.
It is understood that the regular servive and the Secure Plus system can garner +'s
They very reason RYK mentioned in the thread is why many of us never submitted for Secure Plus to begin with. The fear of a non plussed Secure Plus coin being frowned upon no matter how nice the coin. When a Laura Sperber can't figure out what PCGS is looking for in a + coin, well I think it speaks volumes. It is what it is.
I still love PCGS just the same.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......