Home U.S. Coin Forum
Options

Bullion silver vs. numismatic silver coins

I can't help but notice that although bullion silver has nearly doubled in price over the last 1.5 yrs yet numismatic coins have remained essentially unchanged over the same period of time. For example, 1.5 yrs ago I could buy a common date MS64 Morgan for $48, and today $48 will still buy that same Morgan dollar. However, 1.5 yrs ago a silver eagle ran me ~$13 and today it would cost me $22.50. Even more glaring is a circulated 1883 Morgan now trading at $18.50 and an AU of the same date trading at $22! All things being equal, an MS64 Morgan should now be ~66% higher or now trading at $80 ea. This same pattern seems to apply to all higher grade silver coins I've looked at. So what gives? Are higher grade silver coins a screaming buy or does this signal that bullion silver is extremely overpriced and will soon adjust lower or ? Personally, I like the former possibility but who know?!? There must be a reason numismatic coins have not participated in the nearly doubling of spot silver!

Comments

  • Options
    jfoot13jfoot13 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭
    seperate markets but connected

    apples and oranges but you're looking at the fruit salad market
    If you can't swim you better stay in the boat.......
  • Options
    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The two are not related markets (as stated above). Silver bullion is tied to spot+, coins already have a price above spot (usually well above). Cheers, RickO
  • Options
    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,090 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One can see over time that the real value is in coins and not bullion, in spite of the surge in the price of the material each piece is made from. Bullion has a long way to go before you see buyers getting excited about "die characteristics". But it's good that others are able to see how this is functioning, of late. Maybe other speculators will make the transition to the hobby some day.
  • Options
    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The one thing you can probably say, though certainly not with 100% accuracy is that MS64 Silver dollars at $48/ea have less downside risk than ever before due to the supporting price of silver. It's probably only a matter of time before silver spot sequentially swallows up circ silver dollars, BU silver dollars, choice BU silver dollars, etc. The same action has been seen in the $20 Libs and Saints where dates that once brought 100% premiums in various mint states grades now bring common date money.

    In 5 yrs or less I would not be surprised to see an MS64 Morgan bringing within 10% of spot much the same way that an MS65 $20 Saint might do the same as well. If silver should reach $65/oz (3X increase) would you want to pay $145 for MS64's to maintain today's spreads? I didn't think so. More than likely they would fetch $55-$75 and would still be at their highest level in years. Imo by $100/oz silver they'd be priced within 10% of melt or $80-$85. And should the price of silver fall back dramatically, so will the MS64's.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Options
    dbcoindbcoin Posts: 2,200 ✭✭
    RR, you have been on the money and odds are your take on this issue will prevail. However, let me give another take that has some possibility of happening: should silver take off due to some Comex default or such, then its possible that all numismatic silver would surge as well. The larger numismatic silver pieces, Morgans and Peace, would trade at multiples of their current prices. The last time Morgans ran, MS65 coins traded at $500. That was when $500 was worth $500 too

    Could get interesting. I think $48 for an MS64 Morgan has almost no downside
  • Options
    Considering how Saints and gold Liberties have been getting hiked up to where one needs supplemental oxygen to breathe, I, too, have wondered why common generic Morgans have kind of sat still. I figure that if silver continues climbing, though, this should change. If the silver content of a circulated Morgan rises from about $15 today to $20 or so, then a nice ungraded but uncirculated one should be worth at least $25-30. And, if those are worth that much, then an MS63 graded one ought to be worth more than that...

    Granted, I don't think the $5 an ounce jump will make an 1893-S rarity go from $20,000 to $20,005.
    Improperly Cleaned, Our passion for numismatics is Genuine! Now featuring correct spelling.
  • Options
    lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
    perhaps coins are undervalued?
    LCoopie = Les
  • Options
    SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The prices for the common date BU Morgans will climb up, just as the Libs and Saints did when gold shot up. Then it will be a very bad time to buy them.
  • Options
    savoyspecialsavoyspecial Posts: 7,372 ✭✭✭✭
    wonder if this deal is still valid? it was only from a month ago...

    www.brunkauctions.com

  • Options
    HalfStrikeHalfStrike Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭
    As the price of silver rises in theory that means fewer are able to collect the series so premiums don't appreciate.
  • Options
    I remember when the silver bubble burst in 1980. Common silver coins had appreciated with the rise in bullion.
    The coin prices were very, very slow to drop after that.
  • Options
    OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,314 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I remember when the silver bubble burst in 1980. Common silver coins had appreciated with the rise in bullion.
    The coin prices were very, very slow to drop after that. >>


    A few months after the silver peak in Jan. 1980, common date BU Walkers were bringing close to $4000 a roll or $200 per coin. The silver content may not have been a factor, though, because common date BU Buffalo nickels were also stratospheric - around $1800 per roll.

  • Options
    ambro51ambro51 Posts: 14,414 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Back when silver was about $40...before that bubble burst...I had just gotten another studebaker and after pulling the back seat out..found a few dollars worth of fairly green ugly old SILVER coins.

    This rang a bell in my head and the next trip to the U-Pull-It Junkyard (technically looking for a studebaker generator)...I spent a few hours pulling every back seat out of every sixties and fifties car I could get into.

    The resulting haul netted me over $500! (silver value)

    About a decade later, my competitive shooting team was at a match back in the boonies in western Pa. and lo and behold behind the range berm there were a half dozen old cars...rotting away. so, early sunday morning I made my way back there through the briars to try that trick again and on the first car...opened the back door...and promptly got stung by at least ten bees. Being allergic, that ended me up at the ER. (no coins).image
  • Options
    ranshdowranshdow Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭✭
    Great story Ambro. image

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file