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Dealer Poll when buying raw coins from the public.
relicsncoins
Posts: 8,286 ✭✭✭✭✭
Let's say Joe Schmoe walks into your shop wanting to sell a raw coin. In MS64, the coin is a $200 coin. In MS65 the coin is an $800 coin. You believe the coin has a good shot of going 65 at PCGS. What is your offer?
A. I am confident in my grading skills and offer him 65 money.
B. I offer him 64 money as the downside is too great if I'm a point off.
C. I offer somewhere between 64 and 65 money to curb my losses in the event I'm a point off.
D. I offer to send the coin in and then make my offer once PCGS grades it.
I would make this a poll if I knew how.
A. I am confident in my grading skills and offer him 65 money.
B. I offer him 64 money as the downside is too great if I'm a point off.
C. I offer somewhere between 64 and 65 money to curb my losses in the event I'm a point off.
D. I offer to send the coin in and then make my offer once PCGS grades it.
I would make this a poll if I knew how.
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I mean, it could happen, right?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Even if I'm wrong, I got a premium 64.
Tom
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Take this hypothetical, crack a solid for the grade coin out of a PCGS or NGC slab with the sticker. Take it to 100 random selected coin stores. I'd guess not a single dealer would offer full wholesale MS65 money for the coin, and less than 20% would offer MS64 wholesale money or better. I'd guess as many offers near melt value of a silver coin than those offering above MS64 wholesale. A few honest dealers might suggest submitting the coin and then making the offer, but if the seller wants a cash deal right away, it isn't going to be a good day for the seller.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Buy the coin as a 64.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
They both say that for any uncirculated coin - ms60 price is the top they will pay, just in case they are wrong on the grade.
Oddly enough, they have plenty of raw coins with grades and prices up to ms 65. I tried offering ms60 money for a few
and was told that they were way better than ms60. So, bad coming in, good going out. An old song to be sure, and not just in the coin world.
Jim
<< <i>here is my 2c - I have two B&M's close to me. I have tried to sell a few nice duplicates there twice. Waste of time.
They both say that for any uncirculated coin - ms60 price is the top they will pay, just in case they are wrong on the grade.
Oddly enough, they have plenty of raw coins with grades and prices up to ms 65. I tried offering ms60 money for a few
and was told that they were way better than ms60. So, bad coming in, good going out. An old song to be sure, and not just in the coin world. >>
I have had the same experiences. Local B&M dealers just don't know how to grade good enough to make a real offer so they just lowball high enough to cover themselves.
<< <i>From what I've seen, most B&M coin dealers will size up a coin seller and then try to buy his coins for the cheapest price possible. >>
With the marginalization of numismatic coins at many brick & mortar coin shops this seems to be more true than ever.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
do you prefer las vegas or atlantic city?
<< <i>Hand him the grey sheet and ask him to price it. After all he is selling it so he should give me the price he wants for it, just like I price everything I offer for sale. >>
What this brother said.
1 1 16168007 9175 1923 $20 US Genuine (95 - Scratch or Rim Nick)
2 1 16168008 8680 1878 $10 US Genuine (98 - Damage or Tooling)
3 1 16168009 8711 1887-S $10 US Genuine (98 - Damage or Tooling)
4 1 16168010 8725 1893 $10 US AU50
5 1 16168011 8737 1897 $10 US Genuine (92 - Cleaned)
6 1 16168012 8383 1893 $5 US Genuine (95 - Scratch or Rim Nick)
7 1 16168013 8404 1901-S $5 US AU53
8 1 16168014 8409 1904 $5 US AU50
9 1 16168015 7762 1851-O $2.50 US Genuine (92 - Cleaned)
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The grey sheet is a decent guide for wholesale buying, but Perry Hall described me pretty good. I size up the person and find out what they're thinking and what they know, then I tell them the truth as I know it. Then I offer proof (QDB's photo grading and Dannreuther's Book on counterfeiting and coin grading). This is how "trust" is built in any relationship. Fair offers, accurate grading/ assessment and often times a customer still walking because they're upset... (not at me, but about the truth).
Truth: it's what we all want (unless of course, we aren't truthful and that's typically when we hear the words:
"I don't wanna hear it".
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
That takes the guess work out of the question.
I have learned the hard way over the last few years, that being the "nice guy" can be very expensive... it the last two years I have taken losses well into 5 figures (with no decimal point
Frankly, it does not matter if it is Joe/Jill Schmoe or an experienced collector or another dealer... each coin must be evaluated on it's own merits... whether raw or certified...
I have become MUCH more selective in my buying habits lately and am more inclined to let material walk away than I am to buy it... I will offer a lowball on some coins BUT will attempt to explain why... yet I have also learned that with some coins, no price is low enough... (except maybe spot on silver/gold... but even then one never knows which way the PM market will go on any given day)...
Again... even if the coin is in a slab... a technical "Grade du jour" does not mandate a price... Will I or a potential customer "agree" with the grade assigned? Does the coin have eye appeal? (A technical grade does not imply eye appeal) ... Is it a coin with much demand or is it a coin that might sit in inventory for many years? Just because it is a coin and just because it is in a holder, does not mean anyone wants it... for instance... other than two or three people, how many people want shield nickels? (a joke, sort of) ... a common date merc dime or Morgan or whatever in MS63 or 64 or 65 with average eye appeal... exactly where is someone going to sell such a coin? and at what price? yes... there is dreck in this world... like it or not...
Unless I am certain of where I might "place" the coin... I am going to protect my ASSets...
At the end of the day... I might choose either to pass altogether... or offer a low price (with the advice that they shop it around and if offered more...take it)... or I would suggest they submit before selling...
Also... I am wary of buying raw MS coins and tend to stick to circs... too many examples of sure thing 63+s coming back AU58 and visa versa... frankly, I no longer will submit coins to any grading service... far too much inconsistancy IMHO... if i want a coin in a holder, I will buy it in a holder... much simpler that way and i can sleep better at night...
<< <i>E. Pull out the Graysheet and offer 20 points back of AU58 money, all the while talking down every slight hit on the coin.
I mean, it could happen, right?
Note to self: don't offer to sell any raw coins to this person.
<< <i>
<< <i>E. Pull out the Graysheet and offer 20 points back of AU58 money, all the while talking down every slight hit on the coin.
I mean, it could happen, right?
Note to self: don't offer to sell any raw coins to this person. >>
Why not one of the more honest answers to this what it.
<< <i>I have learned the hard way over the last few years, that being the "nice guy" can be very expensive... >>
Ain't that the truth? When I statred buying stuff for resale, I used to make the kind of offers I'd like to get if I were the seller (read: bending over backwards to be "fair"). It soon became apparent that if I didn't want to lose money, I'd have to make my offers based on what I could resell the coins for instead.
<< <i>The reason I posed this question was to confirm what I already suspected. The vast majority of responses were to offer 64 money even if the dealer felt it was a 65. It re-enforces for me that plastic does indeen rule the market these days and if you want to get anywhere near what your coins are worth when you go to sell them or your heirs go to sell them they better be in top TPG plastic or you are likely to leave most of your money on the table. >>
Something is only WORTH what someone is willing to pay for it. If it isn't in plastic and you can get only 64 money for it, that is what it is WORTH as you present it.
<< <i>The reason I posed this question was to confirm what I already suspected. The vast majority of responses were to offer 64 money even if the dealer felt it was a 65. It re-enforces for me that plastic does indeed rule the market these days and if you want to get anywhere near what your coins are worth when you go to sell them or your heirs go to sell them they better be in top TPG plastic or you are likely to leave most of your money on the table. >>
Yeah, but in the old days, before plastic you had "sliders" being sold as "Gem BU" at coin shops... And they would buy true Gems as sliders. Cleaned copper was represented as Red... Caveat Emptor with knowledge and experience the only safety nets.
Plastic has just refined the game and given it the imprimatur of respectability.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
All ms 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65 and 66 coins are priced at ms60 unc price, no ifs ands or buts.
AU58 does not exist, those are priced at vg pricing
XF and below- melt
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I saw this in action at my local B&M which I had thought had typically offered good prices on great coins. In this case they offered about 20-30% of wholesale. The coins in question were 4 raw US gold coins worth about $20K-$25K each at the time. They offered about $25K for all 4 coins and got them since the owner really didn't know what they had. These were all key dates in 20th set gold sets. They all graded out as PCGS 64 with a market value closer to $90K. They were fresh looking coins put away years back. In essence they offered about AU58/MS60 money for these. Their only downside was if they were all counterfeits. They'd have broken even if only 3 were fake. It was a nice day's work. As it was explained to me by the owner after I saw the coins, you have to get some scores to pay the rent.....I'll say!
roadrunner