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Bushmaster : isn't this PVC on the rev. of this PCGS + coin ?
PawPaul
Posts: 5,845 ✭
PawPaul
Posts: 5,845 ✭
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would you have any comments on this 1954-D also on the Heritage web site ?
PCGS MS66 + 1954-D Franklin
On the 1954-D Franklin, all I can say is oops! My opinion doesn't match what was assigned.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
<< <i>On the 1949-D reverse it's tough to call from the photo. It could be but I would not be able to judge that except in hand. Auction house photos are a first step screening tool but I would never rely upon making a bid without in hand viewing by myself or a trusted friend/dealer.
On the 1954-D Franklin, all I can say is oops! My opinion doesn't match what was assigned. >>
..........very insightful comments , .....thanks !
<< <i>LMAO at that 54 D! Those marks on ben are terrible. >>
+1
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
Perhaps it's a mechanical error on the label?
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
a plus I know the answer. I can only vote suspicious but think it is a nice reverse.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
your comments would be most welcome !
.........and no , I doubt very much the holder the 54-D is in is fake ;
it is difficult to draw conclusions from a single picture - as the other aspects of the coin may out wiegh the carnage on the lower bust ..........but I don't see how
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Really from the pics i do not see the grade or the plus, i would have expected better out of the new plus grades this soon out of the box. It just goes to show humans make mistakes no matter how hard we try not to. I am sure it can be corrected without the world falling into deeper disrepair.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
If there was some active PVC attached to these areas at one time, it was not 100% conserved, or the wrong chemical was used and it did not render the area clean enough.
I have seen purplish looking spots on coins and you just feel something was done just not quit up to standards and through time, change will bring out what was fought.
I do believe that is what has happened to this coin, it was not very well cared for, disguised as best as possible and out into the coin world it goes.
What happens in the immediate future no longer becomes your problem, it is now eating away at someone else.
Now, the 1954-D begs reasoning as to why this coin with that label share the same home. PCGS needs to acquire this jewel and get it out of that holder…compensation might be in line also.
With the literally thousands up thousands holdered coins out there, your occasionally going to run across something that doesn’t belong, some going to be blatant, others will take some thinking.
These are the rocky roads we have to take without spilling the milk.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Will’sProoflikes
I say "likely" because you just can never be absolutely certain w/o actual in-hand exam.
But I would give 10:1 odds that it is PVC, and that if you soaked that coin in an appropriate solvent, the solvent would turn green as a shamrock.
Unfortunately, I have found that active PVC contamination is very common on TPG encapsulated coins.
Even more unfortunate is the unacceptably high possibility that if the coin was sent back to PCGS for conservation, it would get a cursory, improperly done dipping and would still exhibit residual PVC in the heaviest areas, AND develop new problems somewhere down the road from the improper dipping.
I have sent similarly PVC contaminated coins in for conservation (via spot review) and had very dissappointing results. One coin, in particular, looked like it was left in a strong dip for an extended period of time and suffered from a complete loss of luster. But the more common result is spots developing on coin in a few months time.
(BTW- all of this is meant to be constructive criticism- I wish PCGS would take steps to improve the spot review process. Better yet, the graders should spend adequate time examining each coin so that PVC contaminated coins can be more reliably detected (even if spending more time with each coin leads to a higher cost of grading fee).
As to the 1954-D, it obviously graded out to MS66.71
You all are obviously expecting it to have the appearance of an MS66.72
But seriously, I disagree with sweetwillie's comment about the marks appearing fresh. To me, those marks most likely are remnant marks that were present on the planchet prior to striking, and as such, carry less weight in the grading equation than post-striking marks would.
I'm ok with that coin getting the +, because w/o those marks, the coin looks to be of 67 quality.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
That 1954-D is nowhere near a MS66. How did it get the PCGS "+"???
..........Bushy .........., your eye for PVC is unparalleled ;
I see PVC too , and plenty of it -
These two coins bring out a disturbing conclusion as to just what the heck are the PCGS graders looking at when they Plus such coins , and are they seeing what you and I and many others plainly see as well ?
<< <i>Yep 1949-D has PVC. It doesn't look like it etched into the surface...yet. A good dip in acetone should remove all of it.
That 1954-D is nowhere near a MS66. How did it get the PCGS "+"???
I'm with you -
Bushmaster doesn't have a problem with the grade on the 54-D , or the plus : but I sure as heck do !
I do not think those hacks on the obv. were pre- striking marks , and irregardless of the fact the remaining qualities of the piece may push the MS67 grade ,
a coin such as this one shakes my belief in just what the heck the plus really is supposed to mean .......... let's not play the " Emperor has no clothes on " game here ,
those nasty marks on Franklins lapel should automaticly knock it out of any consideration for being on the threshold of a MS 67 coin .
This metal is moved and was never part of the original planchet IMHO also the arc of the post strike damage leads me to believe is is not bag marks (no reed marks observable) and must be from a counting or rolling machine.
Upon further inspection of this Franklin half dollar, I would not want this coin in my collection at the present grade. Hard facts are hard to refute.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
check out the one's on the Coin Facts .......... I had to look very hard on the one's imaged there - just to find a single distracting mark ;
let alone a whole series of cuts and scrapes on poor 'ole Ben's shoulder !
Those first few Franklins I saw on Coin Facts lead me to believe a MS 66 "+" PCGS Franklin was a truly fantastic , nearly impeccable coin
<< <i>This metal is moved . >>
You may well be right...the close up does look that way.
One things for sure they don't have the typical appearance of bag/milling marks, as the spacing and various angles of the marks do not appear to be a match up with a half dollar reeded edge.
edit to add:
I see similar marks often enuff on Franklins. If they are indeed post-strike I suppose they could be caused by feed fingers or some other part of the press, but that's just speculation.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
The reason I thought they may be fresh is that you can compare them to the reed marks to the right of the chin. Those marks are toned the same as the rest of the coin, whereas the marks in question tend to display more brilliance and seem to be made after the coin had toned. Compare the color of the 2 different marks. I'm just speculating, of course, I do not know for sure.
Will’sProoflikes
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
But with all the attention that's been given to plus-grading, the hype and hoopla and talk of appreciated value to the marketplace...with all the disappointment from CU members who submitted superior coins that failed to plus (and we've seen many of them), and explanations from PCGS about the special qualities required for plussing, I am really struggling with this.
The only thing that would make this okay in my mind would be learning those cuts occurred after grading (during slabbing). I guess not, huh?
Right about now HRH should jump in and tell us PCGS is taking steps to retrieve that Franklin and compensate the owner. Then the PCGS world would be perfect again.
Lance.
examples such as these put a cloudy fog over what I thought the "+" grade stood for .
Absolutely ; someone from PCGS should act - and get both those coins outta here , then we could bask in the PCGS pursuit of perfection again
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution