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New Photo Setup - Comments Please
rmpsrpms
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I put together a new "studio" and have my first photo to share. Comments welcome. Nothing special about the coin, just a decent looking 57-D cent for reference. Photo matches the color in-hand pretty well.
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I assume you're looking for some constructive criticism and I see a couple things and realize that I'm guilty of this as well on some of my coin photos. And also realize I have no idea whether this coin is slabbed, or raw, or in a 2x2 or what.
First thing I see is the rim is wider on the right side than the left which can mean the camera or whatever the coin was sitting on was just a tiny bit crooked. Could just be the Photoshop (or whatever software you used) crop as well too.
Also the edge details look amazing such as IGWT and the date. Abe doesn't quite look as sharp, although the pic of Abe is WAAAAYYYYY more than acceptable. Good even.
Play around with your aperture to get a tiny bit more depth of field.
What is your set up and did you use a Macro lens?
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
<< <i>I put together a new "studio" and have my first photo to share. Comments welcome. Nothing special about the coin, just a decent looking 57-D cent for reference. Photo matches the color in-hand pretty well.
Great pic, so how about a few studio tips???
<< <i>Very nice pic. I love the threads regarding photos and photo improvements. I think a few years back when I first started lurking the quality of the photos was generally poor with some exceptions from some of the better photogs around here.
I assume you're looking for some constructive criticism and I see a couple things and realize that I'm guilty of this as well on some of my coin photos. And also realize I have no idea whether this coin is slabbed, or raw, or in a 2x2 or what.
First thing I see is the rim is wider on the right side than the left which can mean the camera or whatever the coin was sitting on was just a tiny bit crooked. Could just be the Photoshop (or whatever software you used) crop as well too.
Also the edge details look amazing such as IGWT and the date. Abe doesn't quite look as sharp, although the pic of Abe is WAAAAYYYYY more than acceptable. Good even.
Play around with your aperture to get a tiny bit more depth of field.
What is your set up and did you use a Macro lens?
John >>
What if he used the camera on his cell phone to take the pic?
<< <i>What if he used the camera on his cell phone to take the pic? >>
It wouldn't surprise me these days. I took this photo of AV-8B Harrier Operations in Ie Shima Japan with my cell phone camera a week or two ago.
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
<< <i>First thing I see is the rim is wider on the right side than the left which can mean the camera or whatever the coin was sitting on was just a tiny bit crooked. Could just be the Photoshop (or whatever software you used) crop as well too. >>
I think it's a misaligned die. The "doubled" rim on the fat side is a pretty good giveaway for that.
<< <i>Also the edge details look amazing such as IGWT and the date. Abe doesn't quite look as sharp... >>
Looks as sharp as a 57 Lincoln cent is going to get. The detail once present on the master hub in 1909 was long gone by 1957 and wasn't restored until 1969.
I'd change the light that hits Abe's face so that the forehead and top part of the cheekbone weren't in the shadows as much, but that's being really picky.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
-Paul
I think that's a very good image.
Be sure to let's us in on your studio set-up.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Messydesk is right, this coin had a slightly misaligned die, hence the rim widths. And the bust is pretty smooth on '57 Lincolns, not much detail. If you zoom in you can see the focus is OK, there is just not much texture to speak of.
Comments about the lighting are well-taken. It's the hardest part of the process trying to:
- get the whole coin lit
- get the angle right so you can see the surface textures
- minimize shadows
- minimize hot spots
- show the luster if present
- show the toning if present
And what seems to work for one coin fails on others. I think I need to learn more about post-processing. I'm sure there are some new techniques that can help with this, maybe make the process easier. Any suggestions on processing techniques would be appreciated.
I'll post some pictures and description of the setup later today.
http://macrocoins.com
Nikon D5000 with Camera Control Pro 2 software
11-deg Tilt adapter
Nikon 135mm f/2.8 AIS manual lens
Nikon PB-5 Bellows
Modified Microscope Stand used for copy stand
Two Ikea Flex LED Lights
Here are some photos of the setup. No camera shown, needed to use it to take the photos!
http://macrocoins.com
Instead of a Nikon PB-5 and a 11 degree tilt adapter, it would be easier to use a PB-4 that has built in tilting.
http://macrocoins.com
<< <i>Can't see your pics at work.
Instead of a Nikon PB-5 and a 11 degree tilt adapter, it would be easier to use a PB-4 that has built in tilting. >>
Mark...I checked on the available PB4's that are listed on eBay right now (there are 7 of them) and none seem to have tilt capability. Are you thinking of rotation? The PB5 and PB4 seem to have the same camera mount system, both with 90-deg rotation capability. Was there an accessory made for the PB4 that enabled tilt? Thanks...Ray
http://macrocoins.com
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Greg
Not really looking for much these days but if I were, it might be a toner.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
The PB-4 can be braced at two points if you choose. There is a 1/2" mount with a locking screw on the bottom of the bellows. You can put a big 1/2" bolt through that and brace it to the copystand/base. I put a rubber end on bolt so it braces better.
<< <i>PB-4 has tilt/shift at the point where the lens is mounted. Look at the picture in this one.. There are two silver levers below the lens mount pointing toward the front of the focusing rail. These are the locking levers for the tilt and shift. There are no tilt/shift knobs, you just slide or twist the lens board. >>
OK, I see. Tilt on the lens side. I was looking on the camera side. With a long extension, wouldn't the image miss the sensor? Seems the amount of tilt is very limited when done on the lens side. But it would give much more flexibility than the fixed tilt...
http://macrocoins.com
<< <i>The lens is the best thing to tilt with an SLR. If you tilt the body, the tilt doesn't center around detector and you will risk moving the detector out of the way of the light from the lens. The end result is the same - the body and the lens are tilted in relation to each other. The image that the lens projects gets larger as the extension increases and the magnification rises, so coverage of the detector shouldn't be a big problem. >>
I don't understand the risk. You are not moving the sensor very much with small angles. The image circle should always hit the sensor as it is always centered relative to the bellows and pointed straight toward the body. With just tilt on the lens, you end up off-centering the image circle much more than with tilting the body for the same tilt angle. You must shift as well (it looks like the PB4 does this) to re-center the axis of the image circle to compensate.
I am wondering if tilting the lens also creates a big problem with focusing. If you tilt the lens, then when you move the lens up and down it will change where it is pointed and you will need to move the coin to compensate. This won't work for me because I like to set the bellows and lens to a fixed length and then adjust focus with the copy stand. Tilting the camera body keeps everything in-line and focusing is easy.
http://macrocoins.com
<< <i>what are your using ? >>
I use a Nikon PB5 bellows. It has a very rigid mounting system with both ends of the rails bolted to the copy stand but does not have the tilt/shift in the bellows. For tilt I use an 11-deg tilt adapter between the bellows and camera body. Take a look up higher in the post and you'll see photos of the setup.
http://macrocoins.com
<< <i>Here's the setup:
Nikon D5000 with Camera Control Pro 2 software
11-deg Tilt adapter
Nikon 135mm f/2.8 AIS manual lens
Nikon PB-5 Bellows
Modified Microscope Stand used for copy stand
Two Ikea Flex LED Lights
Here are some photos of the setup. No camera shown, needed to use it to take the photos!
I'd try the 11 degree between the PB-5 and the lens, yet looking at you coin on the platform of your copystand your wedging the angle of the coin to counter act the 11 degree angle adapter which may be far more of a tilt then necessary
The PB-5 isn't a bad bellows it's just lacks an intergarted focusing rail, but works perfectly on a copy stand which allows you to raise and lower as needed.
I also own a 135mm f/2.8 but have not tried it as a close up lens. I did try a 85mm f/1.4 which is Nikon's king of portrait lenses and although the 72mm objective does pull in a lot of light the lens just IMHO isn't really meant for close-up and runs out of speed on the focus ring for a sharp crisp image. A nikon 55mm f/2.8 Micro which is the most affordable of the dedicated MF macro lenses would still out perform any portrait lens with a bellow or extention tubes.
I don't own a bellows but have about a 120mm worth of extension tubes on hand, I'll have to try the 135mm along with a 200mm f/4 just to see how these really perform compared to a dedicated marco lens
<< <i> I'd try the 11 degree between the PB-5 and the lens, yet looking at you coin on the platform of your copystand you wedging the angle of the coin to counter the 11 degree angle adapter which may be far more of a tilt then necessary
The PB-5 isn't a bad bellows it's just lacks an intergarted focusing rail, but works perfectly on a copy stand which allows you to raise and lower as needed.
I also own a 135mm f/2.8 but have not tried it as a close up lens. I did try a 85mm f/1.4 which is Nikon's king of portrait lenses and although the 72mm objective does pull in a lot of light the lens just IMHO isn't really meant for close-up and runs out of speed on the focus ring for a sharp crisp image. A nikon 55mm f/2.8 Micro which is the most affordable of the dedicated MF macro lenses would still out perform any portrait lens with a bellow or extention tubes. >>
I did try the tilt adapter on the lens side after learning how the PB4 worked, but as I predicted it worked poorly for me. The lens points at an angle in this configuration, so it's impossible to focus without having to move the coin each time. Not a good solution with my copy stand type setup.
I'm finding that an f/3.5 or f/4 versus an f/1.4 or f/1.8 of same focal length work better for me. The smaller max aperture lenses are smaller in diameter, and thus easier to set up lighting around. My beloved 105/2.8VR is just too big, and too short a focal length, to get the lights where I want them. My Micro 55/2.8 working distance is WAY too short for my taste and I can't get lighting anywhere near it's needed. It's not as sharp as the 105VR, either. I also have a Micro 55/3.5 and it's a little smaller in diameter, but still won't work in my setup. At 135mm or longer, the lens diameter is irrelevant because it's so far from the coin! The larger apertures are pretty useless anyway for macro work, even for getting focus set well. I start at max aperture but even after I stop down I still end up fine tuning, so the max aperture is really only working as an estimate for me.
At present I'm trying a Soligor 135/2.8 and will post some images soon. It looks really good to me, near as good as the 105VR.
http://macrocoins.com
http://macrocoins.com
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
http://macrocoins.com
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>Second image is a tad sharper IMHO.
Yes, the old Soligor seems to have a bit higher resolution than the Nikon. I'm waiting for another Nikon 135 to arrive in the mail and will make a comparison then.
I've tried a whole gamut of Nikon lenses in this setup:
50 1.8
50 1.8 with 2x TC
55 Micro 3.5
55 Micro 3.5 with 2x TC
55 Micro 2.8
100 2.8
105 2.5
105 Micro 4.0
105 Micro 2.8 VR
135 2.8
135 2.8 Soligor
I didn't find much difference between any of them (with lowest-common-denominator lighting set by the 55 Micro 2.8) except for the ones with added TCs, which really caused problems. Best is the 105 Micro 2.8 VR, but as I said in another post it's not the one I am using because it's just too big to allow flexible lighting. I did try it with a ring light, but that makes the image a bit too flat and has almost no fine-tuning capability other than blocking elements.
Working with the bellows is new to me and I'm just getting up to speed on it. The tilt/shift stuff is also new to me, but apparently old to everyone else, since it's been around since the beginning with "view cameras".
Question...Does the second image look "juiced" on your monitors? It looks fine on one of my monitors, but way too "vivid" on another. Both have "nominal" settings. Curious how the second image looks on other people's monitors. The only adjustments, other than lighting, I made was a small increase in contrast. Maybe it was too much, but made the image look more like the coin on my reference monitor.
Maybe I should get Photoshop...
http://macrocoins.com
Does it help with getting toning and lustre to show?
<< <i>
<< <i>Second image is a tad sharper IMHO.
Yes, the old Soligor seems to have a bit higher resolution than the Nikon. I'm waiting for another Nikon 135 to arrive in the mail and will make a comparison then. >>
Keep in mind that the resolving power of either of those lenses is far beyond what you're showing in pictures here, and possibly beyond that of the detector in your camera. Differences in sharpness seen on these pictures is likely a function of focus or post-processing.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>May I ask what the tilt does for the photos? At first glance, I would have thought that would force the coin to be oblong shaped.
Does it help with getting toning and lustre to show? >>
It's advantageous to tilt the coin a little so you can improve lighting angles to show better surface details, luster, or whatever you're after. But since the depth of field is very shallow at high magnifications, the tilt causes major DOF problems. By simultaneously tilting the camera/sensor the same amount as the coin, you bring the sensor back in line with the image plane and the entire tilted coin is now in focus without having to stop down the aperture.
The more usual method is to tilt the lens for a similar effect, also shifting it to compensate for the tilt axis shift relative to the sensor. There are bellows like the Nikon PB4 that allow adjustable tilt and shift of the lens. I prefer tilting the body, but I can't tilt at any angle, only discrete steps that are available in tilt adapters. Here's a link that explains the PB4 pretty well:
Nikon PB4 Bellows
Here's a Wikipedia link on "View Cameras" that explains it pretty well:
Tilt and Shift
Edited to add that Mark Goodman's book on Numismatic Photography also has a good treatment of this, and of course specifically tailored to coins...
http://macrocoins.com
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Second image is a tad sharper IMHO.
Yes, the old Soligor seems to have a bit higher resolution than the Nikon. I'm waiting for another Nikon 135 to arrive in the mail and will make a comparison then. >>
Keep in mind that the resolving power of either of those lenses is far beyond what you're showing in pictures here, and possibly beyond that of the detector in your camera. Differences in sharpness seen on these pictures is likely a function of focus or post-processing. >>
Wide open there are big differences between the lenses. They all improve when stopped-down, and eventually start losing resolution due to diffraction. What you look for in a "shootout" like I did is to see which lens has the widest "sweet spot", ie the widest aperture range where the apparent resolution is constant. I have always assumed this means the lens resolution is at least as good as the sensor over this range. Most of the lenses I tested have one best aperture setting (either 5.6 or 8) while a couple of them were good at both 5.6 and 8. In my tests, The Soligor, Micro 55/3.5, and Micro 105/4 are good from 5.6 to 11, and the 105VR is good from 4 to 11 or maybe even 16. I looked at a feature on the surface of the coin at 100% magnification and optimized the focus at each step (it changes with aperture settings). It was time consuming but very instructive.
http://macrocoins.com