<< <i>Obviously I don't know what had transpired between Mark and the other party between their first initial contact and the "go away" email, but I'm thinking more than a few things must have gone very wrong to warrant that type of email from Mark. >>
LOL
Coinguy1- I was slow in seeing he had contact with the other dealer that informed you of recent emails. While i see your frustation, i also would not expect to see you drop to that level given all the outstanding recomendations that many on this site and others have heaped upon you.
I would strengthen your polices as a result, look at it as a learning experience.
I would love to write emails to my renters like that and they deserve it. I never claimed to have high standards. I would not last to the first break in retail.
On CNN the other day a obese woman was mad because the nail salon owner added 5 bucks to her bill because of wear and tear on the equipment. She did not have a obese charge in writing.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
Mark, I thought for a few minutes you wrote this thread just to get some ideas on how to actually handle this would-be client; was hoping you'd written it in Word and saved it until after we'd all chimed in with opinions.
First, being asked to hold a few coins is nothing new for you, and for it to come from a new client, well... we were all your new clients once. To ask for an extension because of a family medical issue would be something that could happen in life. You'd have kept them in your inventory so they were still available to other buyers if the "hold" fell through, so you really couldn't lose.
This man didn't answer your emails, which in itself is annoying, but to find out he'd contacted the other dealer, twice, is indeed insulting. I don't blame you for being upset. But hindsight is 20/20 and you acted on your impulse of anger at the moment, and those last 3 sentences didn't have to be there. You could've said more than enough time had gone by and you were no longer holding them, and if ever he wanted something held in the future, it would be a 3-day maximum.
We all act with emotional responses in life and no one here has room to judge your actions - it's human nature. I've had many things happen in life, and being a writer of sorts, have put pen to paper in anger, or typed things into Word. But instead of sending them, I restrained myself and put them away for a day. Usually after sleeping on it, then re-reading what I wrote, I burned the paper or deleted the file. Then there were times I did send my letter, but changed things in consideration of the recipient's feelings. My point was made in a way beneficial to both parties, with no bad feelings.
What you did, many others would also do when their patience was tried. It's over and done with - perhaps a lesson learned for both parties!
Have bought and sold on BST, many references available when asked.
<< <i>Dealing with the general public is never easy but if you're selling you have to learn to work with everybody. I think it is shooting yourself in the foot to burn bridges like that as future opportunities are now lost. >>
Everybody? Really? One word (well, three)... Blocked Bidder List.
Frankly, Mark ... you should take a time out... go to your "quiet" place ... and think about what you have done...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
I agree with you that the would be buyer changed his mind but I fail to see what you gained by sending a retaliatory chastising email. If you expect to be treated in a professional manner you should have sent a note saying you could no longer hold the coins and have wished him well while taking note and not making the same mistake in the future. You sound like you got stood up on a date?
This guy was yanking your chain and wasted your time. We've done business together more than a handful of times and you've always been a gentleman, a TRUE scholar and nothing but helpful. You've sent my coins on approval and also spent as much time as necessary answering my questions before and after receipt. There is tremendous value in working with you that obviously this consumer could not or did not appreciate.
I too run a business and the facts are that we have the right to chose our customers as we see fit. So as far as I'm concerned, hitting the send button was the right thing to do (especially when you're the sole owner) and recoounting the story on this forum was simply akin to venting aloud. More power to you!
Best regards,
Jeff.K. Karp
Meet my first little guy, Benjamin. Born 4/8/2007 Pic taken at 2.5 years of age.
I've never understood the concept of putting a coin "on hold". If I wanted to buy a particular car, truck, crane, or house and asked that it be put "on hold" I would be asked for a deposit and signed agreement or else they would say "sure as long as no one else buys it first". So 8 days or 30 days "on hold" would not make any difference if you did not have an agreement as to what "on hold" really meant. A good dealer would "hold" the coin until he had a legitimate offer from another party then inform the first interested party of the offer and set a dead line for receiving the money or the coin goes to the other party.
Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
Mark, Everyone has a bad day. Some times things happen in a person's life that rearranges their priorities. I'm sure it has happened to all of us and may have occurred to your customer. Don't let this incident change any practices that you currently do as you have always been the cream of the crop in this crazy coin market of ours. Just think about the many different ways you could have handled it and decide on which would have been your norm and move on. Nothing has changed, not one of your friends nor customers will change their opinions of you. Relax and go forward. Best of luck, Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time.
<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time. >>
"Childish satisfaction?" Wow, now that is an over-the-top characterization!
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Some people are plain inconsiderate. Even if this person has serious ADD, I'd only hold the coins for 3 days. Has anyone ever had a coin held longer and really bought it? I can't imagine so. I know if I need it on hold, its for only a few hours at most to check on something.
Your running a business, not a hand holding service. Had I known the jerk was calling around other dealers, I'd have sent a much nastier email.
No one loves Coinguy1 more than Longacre, and I don't have all of the facts of the situation, but it is probably not an email I would send. There have been ample times on these boards where I could have sent a similar response to board members who responded to my threads, but chose to not waste my time. Granted, getting odd responses to my threads on these boards has not cost me any money in a business setting, but even in that case, I doubt I would have sent a similar email.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. >>
Depends on what you consider as a gain, I suppose. Although the opportunity to "make a deal down the line" may or may not ever materialize, one fact in evidence is that the prospective buyer took advantage of the seller's good will, and the seller gained nothing for the trouble. Is this the type of customer a seller should encourage? I'd say that's up to each seller to determine for himself.
Although I have never met Mark, I "know" him somewhat from hiw writings on the message board here and the reports of his reputation posted by others. I do not know his buyer. I am satisfied that he would not have acted as he did unless he perceived it to be in his own best interest. I know it's a common saying, but the customer isn't always right.
Everyone has different policies and these policies need to be communicated clearly. If you don't have a policy, put one together....it does not take much to say 'I'll hold the coins for 5 business days unless other arrangements are made. If you have a coin on hold and do not contact me within 5 business days to arrange payment the coin will be considered to be available for sale again at my discretion' or something like that. Place it in your email signature line or something where you can insert it into every email you send a prospective buyer.
That way there is no ambiguity about it and it will help reduce your stress level as the policy has been made known to the buyer and when you follow it you are in the right on both sides. Buyer might not like it if they contact you after 10 days and the coin is gone, just apologize, explain the policy and that it was included in the email and move on.
<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time. >>
"Childish satisfaction?" Wow, now that is an over-the-top characterization! >>
What would you call it when one responds on their own volition to what is catamount to belittling ones significance in a dismissive context for no other reason than personal satisfaction? How is it different then a little kid justifying their actions by saying "He starteddddd it!!!" The general consensus among adults is other peoples actions rarely justify lowering your standards of conduct. Now if one has low standards like me, such things rarely pose any problem Mark seems stand up enough but that doesn't mean that he didn't act out of emotion and not businesses sense on this instance, besides he put this up to solicit opinions and stir the pot.
<< <i>Mark seems stand up enough but that doesn't mean that he didn't act out of emotion and not businesses sense on this instance... >>
No, it doesn't mean that he didn't act out of emotion. But from what's been posted so far, it's not really safe to say he did, either, don't you think?
"But I will say, that I was not angry when I sent my email."
<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time. >>
"Childish satisfaction?" Wow, now that is an over-the-top characterization! >>
What would you call it when one responds on their own volition to what is catamount to belittling ones significance in a dismissive context for no other reason than personal satisfaction? How is it different then a little kid justifying their actions by saying "He starteddddd it!!!" The general consensus among adults is other peoples actions rarely justify lowering your standards of conduct. Now if one has low standards like me, such things rarely pose any problem Mark seems stand up enough but that doesn't mean that he didn't act out of emotion and not businesses sense on this instance, besides he put this up to solicit opinions and stir the pot. >>
Beyond stating the facts of what happened, this is the portion of Mark's communication we're all talking about "How incredibly rude and inconsiderate. That's not how I do business. Please do not ever contact me again." Seems he is calling out poor behavior, stating it's unacceptable, and communicating that he does not want to hear from him again. Straightforward dialogue and perhaps educational for the miscreant! I don't see the kid versus adult analogy, but maybe I'm just dumb.
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Could someone explain why a collector would want a dealer to tie up a coin for several days? In my case, I would decide if I want it or not and then either buy it or pass on it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Perhaps its 2-3 days before the collectors pay day or he is waiting for payment from some coins he sold on ebay etc. >>
If that were the case, the collector should be upfront with the dealer and set up some kind of payment arrangement with perhaps a down payment.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time. >>
"Childish satisfaction?" Wow, now that is an over-the-top characterization! >>
What would you call it when one responds on their own volition to what is catamount to belittling ones significance in a dismissive context for no other reason than personal satisfaction? How is it different then a little kid justifying their actions by saying "He starteddddd it!!!" The general consensus among adults is other peoples actions rarely justify lowering your standards of conduct. Now if one has low standards like me, such things rarely pose any problem Mark seems stand up enough but that doesn't mean that he didn't act out of emotion and not businesses sense on this instance, besides he put this up to solicit opinions and stir the pot. >>
I would simply call it "free speech".
Have bought and sold on BST, many references available when asked.
This email made absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the potential customer was not responding within your time frame (which why wasn't this mentioned when the "hold" was put in place), then why not just an email stating that due to lack of response, the coin or coins have been returned to active inventory? Yes, the customer didn't get back to you, but it was you that let it go up to 8 days. And if you kept it in inventory so others knew you still had it, then you really were not out much other than that immediate sale/cash for a couple of days. I've often sent dealers emails asking that if a coin that is on hold becomes available, I would be interested.
I am interested how much attempt was made to contact you by the customer or what your actions were to reach the customer. If it was all only by email, then that's the problem. I frequently have important emails ending up in a spam filter by my email provider. Attempts should have been made by phone.
From what I am reading, you were never out anything (you still had the coin and it was still known to other customers if they desired), but lost a lot (this customer, and possibly the respect of others who read this post and wouldn't want to be treated this way).
For me, this is one more reason that I won't and haven't done business with Mark. I am sure he is not disappointed by this either. And life is much better for both of us.
<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time. >>
"Childish satisfaction?" Wow, now that is an over-the-top characterization! >>
What would you call it when one responds on their own volition to what is catamount to belittling ones significance in a dismissive context for no other reason than personal satisfaction? How is it different then a little kid justifying their actions by saying "He starteddddd it!!!" The general consensus among adults is other peoples actions rarely justify lowering your standards of conduct. Now if one has low standards like me, such things rarely pose any problem Mark seems stand up enough but that doesn't mean that he didn't act out of emotion and not businesses sense on this instance, besides he put this up to solicit opinions and stir the pot. >>
I would simply call it "free speech". >>
People often get free speech confused with free of implications and consequences. You can be punished for what you say while still having it be free and the maturity level of one is always judged on how the exercise their "freedoms".
Did the guy ever respond and say why he didn't answer your emails?
I have a few prospective customers who throw me red herrings and sometimes, they even lie outright about their intentions. After a few of these episodes, I finally learned that it's not worth my time to think about it for more than about 2 seconds. Not my issue.
You see, in sales you have the unique advantage of being able to decide who is going to be your customer, and who you never have to deal with again unless you feel like it. Qualify your leads before you get too worked up about it.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Business is business, especially if it puts food on your table and shoes on your kids feet, this is not a hobby if your selling coins to survive. At one point, a firm stance about whishy-washy buyers has to be drawn in the sand. You can only bend so far for potential customers before you snap.
3 days max, then they are up for grabs. You should have told the customer in the very beginning, make it clear you have limits.
Was the email the "smart" thing to do, probably not, but I understand how it is dealing with the public and sometimes you need to vent. I don't know how many times I've held things (antiques in this case) for people who never even have the courtesy to get back to you, it can be very frustrating.
<< <i>And if you kept it in inventory so others knew you still had it, then you really were not out much other than that immediate sale/cash for a couple of days. >>
And if he'd done that, had another inquiry about the coin and replied that it was on hold for another buyer, you can bet there'd be a thread started here soon enough complaining about dealers who leave coins that are not available listed in their inventories, and why don't they just take the listings out until the coin is actually available again?
<< <i>And if you kept it in inventory so others knew you still had it, then you really were not out much other than that immediate sale/cash for a couple of days. >>
And if he'd done that, had another inquiry about the coin and replied that it was on hold for another buyer, you can bet there'd be a thread started here soon enough complaining about dealers who leave coins that are not available listed in their inventories, and why don't they just take the listings out until the coin is actually available again?
If you want to find fault, there's always a way. >>
puhleeze... don't encourage "them"...
there haven't been too many whiner threads lately... we certainly don't need a new rash of them...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
I am beside myself with grief and anxiety because I have not heard your wondrous voice or seen your most venerable and enlightening words for more than half a fortnight. My grief has been so overwhelming that I have been reduced to gorging copious quantities of antidepressants, as well maxing out my health insurance’s lifetime psychiatric limit. Regretfully, I am unable to engage in further commercial activities, or even communication with you, on the advice of my psychiatrist, my spiritual counselor, and my grief therapy group.
May you receive prosperity and blessings in all of your future endeavors.
With overwhelming respect, I am your most humble and obedient servant,
Perhaps a good practice for everyone would be that when asked to put a coin on "hold" that a stated length of days for the coin to be held should be clarified up front and that anything beyond that day the coin is back up for sale? I don't know...
Over the last several years, while I've not yet purchased anything from Mark he has taken the time to look at several coins for me in person at shows that I don't attend. He's also provided me with advice on other purchases and to date he's never received anything in compensation. I've always found him to be considerate and helpful...
... I guess I should be happy that I never asked him to put a coin on hold for me for a long time without getting back to him
Despite this one incident, I really don't feel a need to make my coin-hold policy any more specific or complicated.
In this case, the person mentioned "a day or so", and I was willing to be flexible. My feeling is that after 2 or 3 days, he should have contacted me. Beyond that, in the absence of a crisis of some sort, it was inconsiderate or worse not to have contacted me. And it went beyond that.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
The family tragedy excuse is WAY overplayed. The guy who used to cut my grass didn't show up because he went to his grandmother's funeral 4 times in 3 months! I didn't even have the pleasure of firing him - he just stopped showing up one day (and never sent a bill for his last month of services).
I have been following this thread with interest since I too have had frustrating and distasteful deals with (thankfully) only a couple people who have made me feel exactly like Mark, as I'm sure many of us have. I chose (after much restraint and consultation with my cummunication therapist!) not to notify my customer that I no longer wanted to do business with him, but each of us has our breaking points, especially when it comes to certain ill behaviors.
I have to applaud Mark for not only having the guts to be blunt with a very inconsiderate customer (and I am certain there are more specific details that occurred than just what Mark briefly described here), but also for posting the situation here for everyone to discuss.
I think some people forget that we dealers are people who are just trying to run our business the best way we can with a mind to serving our customers yet holding true to our own standards and values. And when a customer (or another dealer for that matter) crosses the line, whatever that line is to each of us, why shouldn't we be able to let that person know that we choose not to tolerate their bad behavior. Sure, we know we are losing a customer or burning a bridge, but who wants to deal with anyone who takes advantage of us. And perhaps, just perhaps, it might even cause that person to think twice next time and not repeat that behavior.
Besides, one of the best things about being your own boss is that you don't have to tolerate customers (or other dealers) who behave badly!
It's one thing to make an inquiry about a coin, and then just never follow up. Happens all the time.
Specifically asking a businessman to hold an item, and then never following up, is incredibly rude. The jerk deserved what he got.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I think that this situation is all too comman with business in general. Mark may have lost a potential customer in the future, but maybe his response was theraputic for him. If a customer doesn't respond within the agreed time, put the items back into inventory and get on with business. Dealers (doctors, etc.) have to put up with discourteous customers everyday. Maybe this thread will make some us think before ignoring a dealer in the future (probably not, though).
I have to wonder if the buyer has done this to other dealers as well. It sounds to me like the guy was just messing with you Mark. Maybe an X member here wanting to give you a hard time. I would find it hard to trust someone that acts like that again.
In the name of fairness, I report that the other party replied to my syrupy sweet email.
In it, he claimed that he had sent an earlier email to me, 4 days after I had placed my coins on hold for him, and said that I should check my spam folder. I did, but there was no message from him. And there had not been any problem receiving other messages from him at the time he inquired about my coins, etc. He also stated that I should have given him the benefit of the doubt. But I had already done that, with my willingness to place coins on hold and ship to him on approval, despite what HIS reference had said to me about him.
Since he didn't attach his (alleged) previous email or indicate what it said, I don't know what his side of the story is. I did not and do not plan to reply to him.
I aplogize for the long delay in getting back in touch with you.
I received your "go away"letter, and am hurt. Is there any chance you can send the coins now? I will pay an extra 20% for the inconvenience I caused. >>
I'll pass, Dale. But at 40% extra I would consider it.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
<< <i>Obviously I don't know what had transpired between Mark and the other party between their first initial contact and the "go away" email, but I'm thinking more than a few things must have gone very wrong to warrant that type of email from Mark. >>
LOL
Coinguy1- I was slow in seeing he had contact with the other dealer that informed you of recent emails. While i see your frustation, i also would not expect to see you drop to that level given all the outstanding recomendations that many on this site and others have heaped upon you.
I would strengthen your polices as a result, look at it as a learning experience.
I would love to write emails to my renters like that and they deserve it. I never claimed to have high standards.
On CNN the other day a obese woman was mad because the nail salon owner added 5 bucks to her bill because of wear and tear on the equipment. She did not have a obese charge in writing.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
First, being asked to hold a few coins is nothing new for you, and for it to come from a new client, well... we were all your new clients once. To ask for an extension because of a family medical issue would be something that could happen in life. You'd have kept them in your inventory so they were still available to other buyers if the "hold" fell through, so you really couldn't lose.
This man didn't answer your emails, which in itself is annoying, but to find out he'd contacted the other dealer, twice, is indeed insulting. I don't blame you for being upset. But hindsight is 20/20 and you acted on your impulse of anger at the moment, and those last 3 sentences didn't have to be there. You could've said more than enough time had gone by and you were no longer holding them, and if ever he wanted something held in the future, it would be a 3-day maximum.
We all act with emotional responses in life and no one here has room to judge your actions - it's human nature. I've had many things happen in life, and being a writer of sorts, have put pen to paper in anger, or typed things into Word. But instead of sending them, I restrained myself and put them away for a day. Usually after sleeping on it, then re-reading what I wrote, I burned the paper or deleted the file. Then there were times I did send my letter, but changed things in consideration of the recipient's feelings. My point was made in a way beneficial to both parties, with no bad feelings.
What you did, many others would also do when their patience was tried. It's over and done with - perhaps a lesson learned for both parties!
<< <i>Dealing with the general public is never easy but if you're selling you have to learn to work with everybody. I think it is shooting yourself in the foot to burn bridges like that as future opportunities are now lost. >>
Everybody? Really? One word (well, three)... Blocked Bidder List.
<< <i>Frankly, Mark ... you should take a time out... go to your "quiet" place ... and think about what you have done...
As a professional coin dealer it would have been better to take the emotion out of your response.
Simply to have said the coins are being offered to sale to others because you have not heard from him would have sufficed.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
This guy was yanking your chain and wasted your time. We've done business together more than a handful of times and you've always been a gentleman, a TRUE scholar and nothing but helpful. You've sent my coins on approval and also spent as much time as necessary answering my questions before and after receipt. There is tremendous value in working with you that obviously this consumer could not or did not appreciate.
I too run a business and the facts are that we have the right to chose our customers as we see fit. So as far as I'm concerned, hitting the send button was the right thing to do (especially when you're the sole owner) and recoounting the story on this forum was simply akin to venting aloud. More power to you!
Best regards,
Meet my first little guy, Benjamin. Born 4/8/2007
Pic taken at 2.5 years of age.
Everyone has a bad day. Some times things happen in a person's life that rearranges their priorities. I'm sure it has happened to all of us and may have occurred to your customer. Don't let this incident change any practices that you currently do as you have always been the cream of the crop in this crazy coin market of ours. Just think about the many different ways you could have handled it and decide on which would have been your norm and move on. Nothing has changed, not one of your friends nor customers will change their opinions of you. Relax and go forward.
Best of luck,
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not?
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time. >>
"Childish satisfaction?" Wow, now that is an over-the-top characterization!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Your running a business, not a hand holding service. Had I known the jerk was calling around other dealers, I'd have sent a much nastier email.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
before sending it.
I will wager he did not send it lightly.
<< <i>I wonder how long Mark thought about his reply
before sending it.
I will wager he did not send it lightly. >>
I don't want to dampen the wagering action on that too much. But I will say, that I was not angry when I sent my email.
<< <i>He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. >>
Depends on what you consider as a gain, I suppose. Although the opportunity to "make a deal down the line" may or may not ever materialize, one fact in evidence is that the prospective buyer took advantage of the seller's good will, and the seller gained nothing for the trouble. Is this the type of customer a seller should encourage? I'd say that's up to each seller to determine for himself.
Although I have never met Mark, I "know" him somewhat from hiw writings on the message board here and the reports of his reputation posted by others. I do not know his buyer. I am satisfied that he would not have acted as he did unless he perceived it to be in his own best interest. I know it's a common saying, but the customer isn't always right.
That way there is no ambiguity about it and it will help reduce your stress level as the policy has been made known to the buyer and when you follow it you are in the right on both sides. Buyer might not like it if they contact you after 10 days and the coin is gone, just apologize, explain the policy and that it was included in the email and move on.
K
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<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time. >>
"Childish satisfaction?" Wow, now that is an over-the-top characterization! >>
What would you call it when one responds on their own volition to what is catamount to belittling ones significance in a dismissive context for no other reason than personal satisfaction? How is it different then a little kid justifying their actions by saying "He starteddddd it!!!" The general consensus among adults is other peoples actions rarely justify lowering your standards of conduct. Now if one has low standards like me, such things rarely pose any problem
<< <i>Mark seems stand up enough but that doesn't mean that he didn't act out of emotion and not businesses sense on this instance... >>
No, it doesn't mean that he didn't act out of emotion. But from what's been posted so far, it's not really safe to say he did, either, don't you think?
"But I will say, that I was not angry when I sent my email."
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<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time. >>
"Childish satisfaction?" Wow, now that is an over-the-top characterization! >>
What would you call it when one responds on their own volition to what is catamount to belittling ones significance in a dismissive context for no other reason than personal satisfaction? How is it different then a little kid justifying their actions by saying "He starteddddd it!!!" The general consensus among adults is other peoples actions rarely justify lowering your standards of conduct. Now if one has low standards like me, such things rarely pose any problem
Beyond stating the facts of what happened, this is the portion of Mark's communication we're all talking about "How incredibly rude and inconsiderate. That's not how I do business. Please do not ever contact me again." Seems he is calling out poor behavior, stating it's unacceptable, and communicating that he does not want to hear from him again. Straightforward dialogue and perhaps educational for the miscreant!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Perhaps its 2-3 days before the collectors pay day or he is waiting for payment from some coins he sold on ebay etc. >>
If that were the case, the collector should be upfront with the dealer and set up some kind of payment arrangement with perhaps a down payment.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time. >>
"Childish satisfaction?" Wow, now that is an over-the-top characterization! >>
What would you call it when one responds on their own volition to what is catamount to belittling ones significance in a dismissive context for no other reason than personal satisfaction? How is it different then a little kid justifying their actions by saying "He starteddddd it!!!" The general consensus among adults is other peoples actions rarely justify lowering your standards of conduct. Now if one has low standards like me, such things rarely pose any problem
I would simply call it "free speech".
I am interested how much attempt was made to contact you by the customer or what your actions were to reach the customer. If it was all only by email, then that's the problem. I frequently have important emails ending up in a spam filter by my email provider. Attempts should have been made by phone.
From what I am reading, you were never out anything (you still had the coin and it was still known to other customers if they desired), but lost a lot (this customer, and possibly the respect of others who read this post and wouldn't want to be treated this way).
For me, this is one more reason that I won't and haven't done business with Mark. I am sure he is not disappointed by this either. And life is much better for both of us.
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<< <i>I'm sure it made you feel good to send the email, but it made no business sense. >>
Why not? >>
He gained nothing towards his bottom line and "maybe" missed an opportunity to show some class and make a deal down the line. What he did was well within his rights but he gained nothing from it but some childish satisfaction. Gained being the key word, that being said we all like to put people in their place from time to time. >>
"Childish satisfaction?" Wow, now that is an over-the-top characterization! >>
What would you call it when one responds on their own volition to what is catamount to belittling ones significance in a dismissive context for no other reason than personal satisfaction? How is it different then a little kid justifying their actions by saying "He starteddddd it!!!" The general consensus among adults is other peoples actions rarely justify lowering your standards of conduct. Now if one has low standards like me, such things rarely pose any problem
I would simply call it "free speech". >>
People often get free speech confused with free of implications and consequences. You can be punished for what you say while still having it be free and the maturity level of one is always judged on how the exercise their "freedoms".
up in a fetal position and suck my thumb for at least a week.
Camelot
I have a few prospective customers who throw me red herrings and sometimes, they even lie outright about their intentions. After a few of these episodes, I finally learned that it's not worth my time to think about it for more than about 2 seconds. Not my issue.
You see, in sales you have the unique advantage of being able to decide who is going to be your customer, and who you never have to deal with again unless you feel like it. Qualify your leads before you get too worked up about it.
I knew it would happen.
3 days max, then they are up for grabs. You should have told the customer in the very beginning, make it clear you have limits.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>And if you kept it in inventory so others knew you still had it, then you really were not out much other than that immediate sale/cash for a couple of days. >>
And if he'd done that, had another inquiry about the coin and replied that it was on hold for another buyer, you can bet there'd be a thread started here soon enough complaining about dealers who leave coins that are not available listed in their inventories, and why don't they just take the listings out until the coin is actually available again?
If you want to find fault, there's always a way.
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<< <i>And if you kept it in inventory so others knew you still had it, then you really were not out much other than that immediate sale/cash for a couple of days. >>
And if he'd done that, had another inquiry about the coin and replied that it was on hold for another buyer, you can bet there'd be a thread started here soon enough complaining about dealers who leave coins that are not available listed in their inventories, and why don't they just take the listings out until the coin is actually available again?
If you want to find fault, there's always a way.
puhleeze... don't encourage "them"...
there haven't been too many whiner threads lately... we certainly don't need a new rash of them...
Dear Most Honorable and Highly Esteemed Client,
I am beside myself with grief and anxiety because I have not heard your wondrous voice or seen your most venerable and enlightening words for more than half a fortnight. My grief has been so overwhelming that I have been reduced to gorging copious quantities of antidepressants, as well maxing out my health insurance’s lifetime psychiatric limit. Regretfully, I am unable to engage in further commercial activities, or even communication with you, on the advice of my psychiatrist, my spiritual counselor, and my grief therapy group.
May you receive prosperity and blessings in all of your future endeavors.
With overwhelming respect, I am your most humble and obedient servant,
Coinguy1
Over the last several years, while I've not yet purchased anything from Mark he has taken the time to look at several coins for me in person at shows that I don't attend. He's also provided me with advice on other purchases and to date he's never received anything in compensation. I've always found him to be considerate and helpful...
... I guess I should be happy that I never asked him to put a coin on hold for me for a long time without getting back to him
In this case, the person mentioned "a day or so", and I was willing to be flexible. My feeling is that after 2 or 3 days, he should have contacted me. Beyond that, in the absence of a crisis of some sort, it was inconsiderate or worse not to have contacted me. And it went beyond that.
The guy who used to cut my grass didn't show up because he went to his grandmother's funeral 4 times in 3 months!
I didn't even have the pleasure of firing him - he just stopped showing up one day (and never sent a bill for his last month of services).
I have to applaud Mark for not only having the guts to be blunt with a very inconsiderate customer (and I am certain there are more specific details that occurred than just what Mark briefly described here), but also for posting the situation here for everyone to discuss.
I think some people forget that we dealers are people who are just trying to run our business the best way we can with a mind to serving our customers yet holding true to our own standards and values. And when a customer (or another dealer for that matter) crosses the line, whatever that line is to each of us, why shouldn't we be able to let that person know that we choose not to tolerate their bad behavior. Sure, we know we are losing a customer or burning a bridge, but who wants to deal with anyone who takes advantage of us. And perhaps, just perhaps, it might even cause that person to think twice next time and not repeat that behavior.
Besides, one of the best things about being your own boss is that you don't have to tolerate customers (or other dealers) who behave badly!
The Penny Lady®
Specifically asking a businessman to hold an item, and then never following up, is incredibly rude. The jerk deserved what he got.
TD
It sounds to me like the guy was just messing with you Mark.
Maybe an X member here wanting to give you a hard time.
I would find it hard to trust someone that acts like that again.
In it, he claimed that he had sent an earlier email to me, 4 days after I had placed my coins on hold for him, and said that I should check my spam folder. I did, but there was no message from him. And there had not been any problem receiving other messages from him at the time he inquired about my coins, etc. He also stated that I should have given him the benefit of the doubt. But I had already done that, with my willingness to place coins on hold and ship to him on approval, despite what HIS reference had said to me about him.
Since he didn't attach his (alleged) previous email or indicate what it said, I don't know what his side of the story is. I did not and do not plan to reply to him.
I aplogize for the long delay in getting back in touch with you.
I received your "go away"letter, and am hurt. Is there any chance you can send the coins now? I will pay an extra 20% for the inconvenience I caused.
<< <i>Mark,
I aplogize for the long delay in getting back in touch with you.
I received your "go away"letter, and am hurt. Is there any chance you can send the coins now? I will pay an extra 20% for the inconvenience I caused.
I'll pass, Dale. But at 40% extra I would consider it.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......