Anyone seen an Indian cent with Die Cutting/Cancelled Lines like this???

ThePennyLady · August 23, 2010 12:05PM

Saw this on Ebay and thought it was pretty cool so I bought it. Does anyone have an explanation as to why it has marks that look like the die was cut or possibly cancelled and then struck this coin? I've seen dollars struck with cancelled dies, and that's what this reminds me of, but I hadn't heard that being done to penny dies.

RedneckHB · August 23, 2010 12:08PM

Looks like post mint damage to me.

TomB · August 23, 2010 12:11PM

That's post mint damage.

EagleEye · August 23, 2010 12:12PM

Yes, post-mint damage.

blu62vette · August 23, 2010 12:12PM

I have to agree on damage. They marks dont look raised like a cancelled die:

ThePennyLady · August 23, 2010 12:13PM

I know the photos are deceiving, but the lines are definitely and distinctly raised, not incused. With the coin in hand, it does not seem like pmd.

coinkid855 · August 23, 2010 12:16PM

Still looks post-mint.

-Paul

AUandAG · August 23, 2010 12:17PM

Die cancellation does not look correct to me. If it were a cancelled dies then
would they not have polished off or refaced, or whatever you call it, so that
the surfaces of the die would have been smooth and the recesses would have
the cancelled mark. Under her chin would not be there but on her neck would.
Just a thought. PMD to me.

bob

PS: neat to see though!

Frankcoins · August 23, 2010 12:18PM

The cuts were made at an angle such that they lifted up the metal, and after circulation it looks this way. The lines ARE raised, but it is damage to the coin, not anything on the die.

Batman23 · August 23, 2010 12:19PM

Looks like PMD to me also. What I see is a cut causing a valley and the displaced metal causing a raised area. The metal at the T in UNITED was pushed back into that valley. JMHO

ThePennyLady · August 23, 2010 12:27PM

A couple more shots....

Batman23 · August 23, 2010 12:34PM

<< <i>A couple more shots.... >>

I am still seeing the same thing...

CaptHenway · August 23, 2010 12:41PM

There is a cut next to each one of the raised lines. The point of something sharp was dug down into the surface at an angle, pushing up a furrow along the cut.

Have seen hundreds of coins like this over the decades. Must have been a popular form of coin mutilation in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

TD

redbrains · August 23, 2010 12:43PM

From my experience in printmaking I would agree that the lines are PMD and were cut in with a sharp tool held at an angle, thus digging a small groove
and pushing up a small mound of metal to the side.
In the print studio we do this on purpose to copper and zinc plates to create an image that prints with a soft, velvety line. (the technique is called
drypoint).

EagleEye · August 23, 2010 12:43PM

When you cut the coin with a knife it will raise a lip. Then after some circulation, the cut area will fill in with debris so what you see is just the lip. The lip may even get tamped down covering any other indication of the initial cut into the coin.

astrorat · August 23, 2010 1:04PM

I have a couple of twenty-cent pieces with the same type of marks. I attributed the marks to someone who wanted to mark the coin as a double dime rather than a quarter (since the marks were "XX").

Lane

seanq · August 23, 2010 1:17PM

I agree with the other posters, post mint damage followed by circulation which pushed the displaced metal back down into the cuts.

Sean Reynolds

Unknown · August 23, 2010 4:26PM

This content has been removed.

GrumpyEd · August 23, 2010 4:46PM

<< <i>The cuts were made at an angle such that they lifted up the metal, and after circulation it looks this way. The lines ARE raised, but it is damage to the coin, not anything on the die. >>

Hussulo · August 23, 2010 5:08PM

There was a similar Morgan listed on ebay not long ago with a "raised" X in front of the face:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200504929550&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

johnny9434 · August 24, 2010 2:52AM

looks like post mint to me to.

BillJones · August 24, 2010 2:55AM

It's post mint damage. If you look at your photos you will see a furrow down the middle of the raised metal. This can look like die defects under naked eye examination, but when you use a glass, you will see that metal has been displaced by the scratch.

ThePennyLady · August 24, 2010 3:01AM

Thanks everyone, interesting thread and I appreciate your thoughts and explanations - it's a good education and I've learned something new! It does make sense, especially after using a high-powered loupe. Isn't it funny that someone would scratch up a penny like this way back then, and for what reason? Perhaps it's akin to putting a penny on a railroad track! Any way, thanks again everyone!

FredWeinberg · August 24, 2010 5:23AM

Charmy,

Those lines are done with "exacto knives"..... (spelling?)

I can see the INCUSE area on one side of the raised line.

When you cut into a metal surface like a coin, the raised
metal line has to come from somewhere - in these cases,
the metal is raised from the 'cut' into the surface.

Again, I can see the incused thin line - they are ALWAYS
on one side or the other, of the raised lines......

Anyone seen an Indian cent with Die Cutting/Cancelled Lines like this???

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