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Grade opinion for 1857-s Seated Quarter needed..Grade POSTED....
DoubleEagle59
Posts: 8,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
NGC MS61. (Sept. 29, 2010)
I thought ms62 for sure.
I thought ms62 for sure.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
0
Comments
<< <i>Looks counterfeit to me. >>
What makes you say that? The only thing that I see that might be slightly off are the slightly toothy denticles from 7-9 o'Clock or so on obverse... I'd say it's genuine...
As for the grade, It's definitely not my series, but I'd say AU58.
-Paul
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>Aren't those bumps to the right of Liberty's ankle indicative of a counterfeit coin(as a cast might have). I am not a gold specialist so I'm asking.
Jim >>
It isn't gold. looks okay to me, but I could be wrong, I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken, AU58
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
<< <i>Aren't those bumps to the right of Liberty's ankle indicative of a counterfeit coin(as a cast might have). I am not a gold specialist so I'm asking.
Jim >>
I can't tell from the picture if those are depressed or not...I didn't even see them...But if they are depressions, that is very bad for the authenticity of the coin. This coin looks WAY nicer than a regular cast counterfeit, and if it is fake, then it was probably made using the one-to-one transfer method. This uses a genuine coin to create dies which are then used to strike coins. Any bag mark or hit on the source coin will be a raised area on the die, and when the counterfeits are struck, it creates depressions with the same luster as the surface of the coin in them. I'd have to see the coin in hand to tell for sure.
-Paul
I may be totally wrong on this, given my crappy eyesight and the quality of the pic. If it were genuine, from a wear standpoint it would probably be a 58. I'm curious to see if anyone else reaches the conclusion I have.
John
I sorta like it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Aren't those bumps to the right of Liberty's ankle indicative of a counterfeit coin(as a cast might have). I am not a gold specialist so I'm asking.
Jim >>
I can't tell from the picture if those are depressed or not...I didn't even see them...But if they are depressions, that is very bad for the authenticity of the coin. This coin looks WAY nicer than a regular cast counterfeit, and if it is fake, then it was probably made using the one-to-one transfer method. This uses a genuine coin to create dies which are then used to strike coins. Any bag mark or hit on the source coin will be a raised area on the die, and when the counterfeits are struck, it creates depressions with the same luster as the surface of the coin in them. I'd have to see the coin in hand to tell for sure. >>
Absolutely NOT Fake.
Even I don't need a PCGS opinion to confirm this fact.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>Looks counterfeit to me. >>
What makes you say that? >>
Initial reaction to it, not a position of authority.
<< <i>The only thing that I see that might be slightly off are the slightly toothy denticles from 7-9 o'Clock or so on obverse... I'd say it's genuine... >>
To me... Liberty's head looks wrong, date looks too distant, the mintmark looks wrong, and the denticles look toothy all the way around.
Were I confident it was counterfeit I wouldn't have said "Looks... to me"
<< <i>Those are tough/bad images to judge by. But from the little bit that I can see, it looks genuine, AU58 at a minimum, and my grade guess would be in the MS63-64 range. >>
Mintmark is all wrong Mark, see my above post.
j.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Aren't those bumps to the right of Liberty's ankle indicative of a counterfeit coin(as a cast might have). I am not a gold specialist so I'm asking.
Jim >>
I can't tell from the picture if those are depressed or not...I didn't even see them...But if they are depressions, that is very bad for the authenticity of the coin. This coin looks WAY nicer than a regular cast counterfeit, and if it is fake, then it was probably made using the one-to-one transfer method. This uses a genuine coin to create dies which are then used to strike coins. Any bag mark or hit on the source coin will be a raised area on the die, and when the counterfeits are struck, it creates depressions with the same luster as the surface of the coin in them. I'd have to see the coin in hand to tell for sure. >>
Absolutely NOT Fake.
Even I don't need a PCGS opinion to confirm this fact. >>
I'm on your side! I said genuine, lol. Nice coin!
-Paul
<< <i>
<< <i>Those are tough/bad images to judge by. But from the little bit that I can see, it looks genuine, AU58 at a minimum, and my grade guess would be in the MS63-64 range. >>
Mintmark is all wrong Mark, see my above post.
j. >>
John, I barely looked at the mintmark, and instead, focused on the overall look of the coin. And, while I might be mistaken, it looks genuine to me. To be clear, do you think it's an added mintmark or a counterfeit coin?
Mint standard of Quarter Dollar, 1853(w/arrows)-1873 : 6.221 g +/- 0.065 g
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:103.125 grain +/- 1.000 grain
Diameter: 24.26 mm.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>
<< <i>Those are tough/bad images to judge by. But from the little bit that I can see, it looks genuine, AU58 at a minimum, and my grade guess would be in the MS63-64 range. >>
Mintmark is all wrong Mark, see my above post.
j. >>
from Heritage......
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Those are tough/bad images to judge by. But from the little bit that I can see, it looks genuine, AU58 at a minimum, and my grade guess would be in the MS63-64 range. >>
Mintmark is all wrong Mark, see my above post.
j. >>
John, I barely looked at the mintmark, and instead, focused on the overall look of the coin. And, while I might be mistaken, it looks genuine to me. To be clear, do you think it's an added mintmark or a counterfeit coin? >>
From the images, which I think are marginal at best, the mintmark on all the known reverse's has some space between the arrow feathers and the stem, and the top serif just touches the stem. On this coin, the mintmark is pushed way up against the feathers and the stem, and the top of the upper serif appears to be under the stem. No known rev of this date exhibits this.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Those are tough/bad images to judge by. But from the little bit that I can see, it looks genuine, AU58 at a minimum, and my grade guess would be in the MS63-64 range. >>
Mintmark is all wrong Mark, see my above post.
j. >>
from Heritage......
>>
Yes, look at the top of the upper serif, it just kisses the stem (as in all the known reverses), from the pics it appears that yours is UNDER the stem, and the top loop of the "S" is contiguous with the arrow feathers and the stem, unlike any images of the '57-S you will find in the archives. I mean no disrespect, and would love for me to be wrong, that's a tough date.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>Here's a close-up of the coin....
>>
Double eagle, my apology, I can see the separation clearly now!
John
Edited to add: I just saw your last post and it looks as if we are in agreement.
<< <i>John, if you don't think the mintmark is good, either the coin would have to be counterfeit or the mintmark would have to be added. I just don't see convincing evidence of either of those scenarios. Would I bet my life on being correct? No way, but the coin and mintmark look OK to me. >>
It (the mintmark) is correct in the close up double eagle so graciously provided, Sometimes, at least in the case of images of coins on message boards, you can only believe half of what you see
And yes, we are in agreement.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>With that last image, I'm sorry I questioned it in the first place now. >>
With no disrespect to DoubleEagle59 (who handled himself as a gentleman), whatsoever, I don't think those of you who questioned the coin owe any apologies. The images weren't very good, and no one bashed the coin in a rude or mean spirited fashion. It was a good discussion and informative debate, as far as I'm concerned.
<< <i>
<< <i>With that last image, I'm sorry I questioned it in the first place now. >>
With no disrespect to DoubleEagle59 (who handled himself as a gentleman), whatsoever, I don't think those of you who questioned the coin owe any apologies. The images weren't very good, and no one bashed the coin in a rude or mean spirited fashion. It was a good discussion and informative debate, as far as I'm concerned. >>
I understand all opinions expressed because unfortunately, my pictures are terrible!!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>With that last image, I'm sorry I questioned it in the first place now. >>
With no disrespect to DoubleEagle59 (who handled himself as a gentleman), whatsoever, I don't think those of you who questioned the coin owe any apologies. The images weren't very good, and no one bashed the coin in a rude or mean spirited fashion. It was a good discussion and informative debate, as far as I'm concerned. >>
Edited to add, we all got to see a tough date and maybe even learn a little, which is what these boards should be all about.
I don't think it is a fake, as all of the Briggs diagnostics match up correctly. All three Briggs' reverse dies look very similar with a large S very close to the crotch with just slight differences, as I believe the Heritage example to actually be a different reverse die but again they are all very similar. I say AU58 on a real difficult coin in high grade, cool.
Seated Dollar Collection
Sweet coin.
Lance.
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Of the 2 MS64's in the Heritage archives one has mushy denticles and the one has sharp ones. So this coin is much closer in appearance to the second one (linked below). But this one had a date that is closer to the rock and seems to have a more delicate top to the "5." This MS64 is a rattler CAC which is sort of neat. The Eliasberg MS66 shows some mushiness in the denticles that these two don't.
PCGS MS64 CAC sharp strike
If you ran across this "new" 1857-s at the local B&M it was quite a find.
roadrunner
As far as grade, I am in the 58 camp. I can see friction in the photos provided. With that being said, I could see it being called 62-64 if I were able to view the surfaces in hand. Nice coin and very tough in the current state of preservation.
The coin looks genuine, had an early poster not questioned the authenticity, I don't think I would have doubted the authenticity at all.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Another 1857-s MS64
roadrunner
Of course one would have the examine the coin in hand to make the call between AU-58 and MS-62/63. Either way she's a very attractive coin. If it were my coin, based on the commercial value of an 1857-S SLQ, I'd certainly send it in for certification to see what the TPGS's have to say about it. Thanks for sharing with us for a most interesting discussion thread!
1857-S Seated Liberty Quarter -- Courtesy Photo Post
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
I still think it should have graded at least ms62.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
roadrunner
<< <i>
from Heritage......
>>
>>
Lovely coin. No doubt owned by an erudite collector
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.