Dipping question.
dlmtorts
Posts: 743 ✭✭✭
I've heard many times that each time a coin is dipped a bit of its skin is removed. Is that true? Has anyone ever left a coin in dip overnight to see what happens to it? I have also heard that dipping does not remove skin just tarnish. I even heard one chemist say they had conducted experiments with to determine that no metal was removed. If no one can give a definitive answer then this weekend maybe I'll drop an old silver coin of little value in dip and leave it there to see what happens.
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Comments
I believe that to be correct.
<< Has anyone ever left a coin in dip overnight to see what happens to it? >>
I haven't, but have heard about people who have done so. Take a coin of no numismatic value and try it.
<< I have also heard that dipping does not remove skin just tarnish.>>
I believe that to be incorrect.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If you feel that you can dip a metal in a strong acid and lose no metal, you are mistaken
I feel confident in dipping/soaking a silver coin in acetone for weeks, without loss of metal
I believe that to be incorrect. >>
Agree with Coinguy. The tarnish is the skin and when you remove the skin, the coin is no longer original.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
No, only if the "skin" has oxidized (toning/tarnish are types of oxidation).
"Has anyone ever left a coin in dip overnight to see what happens to it?"
One board member dipped a coin over a 100 times, and then looked at it under a microscope. he found no changes after the first dip.
"I have also heard that dipping does not remove skin just tarnish"
"Skin" and "tarnish" are synonymous, so dipping does remove the skin.
" I even heard one chemist say they had conducted experiments with to determine that no metal was removed."
He couldn't have been much of a chemist. While the amount of metal removed is so small you can't measure it with a standard scale, you're still removing metal.
<< <i>Dipping removes the outermost layer of silver from silver coinage. Therefore, it removes metal. This is a known chemical result of dipping and the removal of flow lines, which are raised metallic portions of a coin that cause luster, has been shown with scanning electron microscopy after a dip. The previous statements are simply fact without opinion on the aesthetic or other consequences interjected. >>
Tom,
Can you discuss the chemical reaction by which silver is removed? I understand how the AgS is removed but not pure silver. thanks, Jerry
In order to remove metal, do you have to dip repeatedly or will metal continue to be removed as the coin soaks?
Leaving a silver coin in dip overnight or even a lot less time will ruin the luster. The coin will appear shotgun gray, and as far as I know this cannot be reversed.
At 8:00pm this evening, I took it out. Thats 43,200 seconds in the dip. The typical dip lasts perhaps 5 seconds tops which means that this 1974-S has been dipped a total of 8,640 times.
Short Video
Dipping an AU coin can produce disastrous results along the same lines as dipping copper. It's just not something you do and the best advice I have is if you are in doubt, then do not dip.
However, dip has been used on literally millions of BU Morgans, Peace, Walking Liberty, Washington, Roosevelts and Kennedy's with absolutely no adverse affects as it's not so much the dip as it is an inexperienced individual choosing the wrong coin to dip. Dipping can be very bad but it can also be very good and will not always destroy a coin.
Draw your own conclusions from my photographs regarding dipping and I'm really sorry I screwed up my IKE after 8,640 dips!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>At 8:00am this morning I put a 1974-S 40% Eisenhower Dollar in a jar of E-Z-Est.
At 8:00pm this evening, I took it out. Thats 43,200 seconds in the dip. The typical dip lasts perhaps 5 seconds tops which means that this 1974-S has been dipped a total of 8,640 times.
Short Video
Dipping an AU coin can produce disastrous results along the same lines as dipping copper. It's just not something you do and the best advice I have is if you are in doubt, then do not dip.
However, dip has been used on literally millions of BU Morgans, Peace, Walking Liberty, Washington, Roosevelts and Kennedy's with absolutely no adverse affects as it's not so much the dip as it is an inexperienced individual choosing the wrong coin to dip. Dipping can be very bad but it can also be very good and will not always destroy a coin.
Draw your own conclusions from my photographs regarding dipping and I'm really sorry I screwed up my IKE after 8,640 dips! >>
Sorry, but your Ike was dipped only once. Kinda like saying that driving 500 miles straight thru is like 500 one mile short trips; taint the same.
<< <i>Sorry, but your Ike was dipped only once. Kinda like saying that driving 500 miles straight thru is like 500 one mile short trips; taint the same. >>
That's an interesting question. Does being in an acidic solution for 8,640 consecutive seconds have a different effect on a coin than being in that same solution for 8,640 one second increments? I mean- the total time in the dip's the same in either case. Is there really a difference?
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry, but your Ike was dipped only once. Kinda like saying that driving 500 miles straight thru is like 500 one mile short trips; taint the same. >>
That's an interesting question. Does being in an acidic solution for 8,640 consecutive seconds have a different effect on a coin than being in that same solution for 8,640 one second increments? I mean- the total time in the dip's the same in either case. Is there really a difference? >>
43,200 seconds. 8,640 5 second dips.
Personally, I don't think it really matters.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>dip it and don't rinse it, tell me what it looks like in a week >>
What would that accomplish other than prove that you can't follow the instructions?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Do that for the twelve hours and post results.
<< <i>Dipping removes the outermost layer of silver from silver coinage. Therefore, it removes metal. This is a known chemical result of dipping and the removal of flow lines, which are raised metallic portions of a coin that cause luster, has been shown with scanning electron microscopy after a dip. The previous statements are simply fact without opinion on the aesthetic or other consequences interjected. >>
Tom speaks the truth.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
The damage of repeated dipping is not maximized by one looong dip, or repeated dips one after the other.
A lot of silver metal is lost in repeated dippings when the current skin of silver compounds is removed, leaving a surface of fresh silver, which is then allowed over time to retone (more silver sulfides form) and then the new skins are repeatedly stripped off.
(edited to add: above generally refers to mint-state coins, the other major damage occurs, as others have noted, when a coin with very thick toning is dipped, and all that compounded silver is removed in one fell swoop)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>BTW, I am talking about dipping in jeweluster or E-Z-Est. Either has some amount of sulfuric acid. >>
Yes, it is a thiourea solution in dilute sulfuric acid.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>Thiourea dip removes silver compounds, primarily silver sulfide but also others. It does not remove pure or alloyed silver.
The damage of repeated dipping is not maximized by one looong dip, or repeated dips one after the other.
A lot of silver metal is lost in repeated dippings when the current skin of silver compounds is removed, leaving a surface of fresh silver, which is then allowed over time to retone (more silver sulfides form) and then the new skins are repeatedly stripped off.
(edited to add: above generally refers to mint-state coins, the other major damage occurs, as others have noted, when a coin with very thick toning is dipped, and all that compounded silver is removed in one fell swoop) >>
I think I get it now.
Dip, rinse, alcohol dip, dry, wait 6 months for a "fresh" skin of silver compounds.
Repeat 50 times and thats a damaged coin. (It's also 25 years.)
Repeat 100 times for 50 year results.
Of course, you could accelerate the "fresh" skin of silver compounds with a potato or an oven but that would kinda screw up the entire experiment but I think I can see what you're saying.
Whatever............
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry, but your Ike was dipped only once. Kinda like saying that driving 500 miles straight thru is like 500 one mile short trips; taint the same. >>
That's an interesting question. Does being in an acidic solution for 8,640 consecutive seconds have a different effect on a coin than being in that same solution for 8,640 one second increments? I mean- the total time in the dip's the same in either case. Is there really a difference? >>
43,200 seconds. 8,640 5 second dips.
Personally, I don't think it really matters. >>
It matters if you are rinsing, neutralizing and drying, etc. in between dips.
It is also equivalent to 3420 10 second dips and 1,440 30 second dips, but so what? Your example is only mathematically equivalent, but not equivalent as far as the actual practice goes.
<< <i>
<< <i>BTW, I am talking about dipping in jeweluster or E-Z-Est. Either has some amount of sulfuric acid. >>
Yes, it is a thiourea solution in dilute sulfuric acid.
Lane >>
So what do you suppose is the function of the thiourea other than to add another name to the ingredient list?