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First Gold Coin purchase?
MaineJim
Posts: 833 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am thinking of buying my first gold coin. I have saved up about $1500 and was looking at the US Mint page and thinking about getting a Buffalo proof - what would you suggest?
Maine_Jim
Maine_Jim
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Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
I would stay away from bullion and buy a gold coin if I were you.
<< <i>I would stay away from bullion and buy a gold coin if I were you. >>
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
Sorry Illini420, but that is a bullion coin not a $10 Lib.
That's like calling an ASE a Walking Liberty Half.
<< <i>Sorry Illini420, but that is a bullion coin not a $10 Lib.
That's like calling an ASE a Walking Liberty Half. >>
The coin is called Buchanan's Liberty, because he had no spouse.
That's like telling a modern guy he knows now what he speaks because he isn't speaking your classic language.
All of these suggestions are good. The OPs suggestion of buying a proof buffalo is very good.
--Jerry
Remember: All problems can be solved by purchasing more gold.
That's like telling a modern guy he knows now what he speaks because he isn't speaking your classic language. <<<
No matter how you want to slice it............................THAT IS BULLION!!!
<< <i>>>>The coin is called Buchanan's Liberty, because he had no spouse.
That's like telling a modern guy he knows now what he speaks because he isn't speaking your classic language. <<<
No matter how you want to slice it............................THAT IS BULLION!!! >>
Disagree because of the limited mintage. Just because it's modern gold doesn't mean it's bullion. Although I don't prefer the spouse gold it is still a special, limited issue from the mint.
Bullion refers to metals, usually precious metals, by weight or value. A bullion coin is one considered primarily for the value of its precious metal content rather than for its nominal or face value or any numismatic value. All gold coins sell at some premium. It is not really clear how high the premium has to be for a gold coin not to be considered bullion. Limited mintage, on the other hand, does separate the spouse gold from the mass produced eagles and buffalos.
I would argue that any gold or silver coin minted to meet demand is bullion. This would include most non-modern gold.
To the OP I would suggest an earlier gold buffalo because you may find it in NGC or PCGS 70 for close to the same price as the latest issue ungraded.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>>>>The coin is called Buchanan's Liberty, because he had no spouse.
That's like telling a modern guy he knows now what he speaks because he isn't speaking your classic language. <<<
No matter how you want to slice it............................THAT IS BULLION!!! >>
We all are allowed our opinions....You can go back to looking for dimes at 30% of book value now. --Jerry
Sorry derryb, it's bullion. Your paragraph describing bullion describes this bullion thing made yesterday. I don't care how many they make it's bullion. It has the weight of gold and every thing you describe for bullion.
And before someone comes back with "they put that stuff on the trade dollar" DON'T!!!
That was on the trade dollar because it was used as trade in the far east! And it didn't have a dual date or a picture of a person sitting at a desk.
That thing looks like something out of the Franklin Mint.
<< <i>Sorry derryb, it's bullion. Your paragraph describing bullion describes this bullion thing made yesterday. I don't care how many they make it's bullion. It has the weight of gold and every thing you describe for bullion.
And before someone comes back with "they put that stuff on the trade dollar" DON'T!!!
That was on the trade dollar because it was used as trade in the far east! And it didn't have a dual date or a picture of a person sitting at a desk.
That thing looks like something out of the Franklin Mint. >>
So, all gold coins are bullion because they "have the weight of gold?" What gold coins, if any, do you not consider to be bullion?
Surprisingly, many textbook definitions of gold bullion state that is at least 99% pure. This would leave out the gold eagle that we all consider to be bullion.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
1933 and before are gold coins. Everything after is bullion.
<< <i>
So, all gold coins are bullion because they "have the weight of gold? >>
I would have to agree. I collect a lot of 90% junk silver, and although it is coins, the value is there due to the bullion. Although, the history of the silver coins and the variety (values, dates, etc....) do make it interesting.
>
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<< <i>1933 and before are gold coins. Everything after is bullion. >>
Are my 1964 90% silver Kennedy halves bullion?
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>You know as well as I do that Kennedy's are coins not bullion. Not a very good design, but a coin. Just another dead president coin. >>
Just trying to get your definition of bullion concerning coins. To you it is cut and dry with gold - 1933 being the determining factor. When is a silver coin a bullion coin?
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
I checked out the gold buffalos when they first came out. I found that for my liking, I disliked the gaudy appearance of the proof buffalo. I liked the MS buffalo much better, and still do, though the plain-Jane, 0.9999 fineness yellow gets to be a bit drab after a while. I tried the gold, liberty subset First Spouse coins, too. I found them to be taking up resource$ that I could otherwise put elsewhere, like Walkers and classic gold. Sure, there were modern issues I couldn't pass on, the reverse proof gold and the UHR, for instance. The fractional buffalos, too.
I guess it's the history and the look of old gold I like. Researching the history of the old mints and the coins they produced I find to be a great pastime. The civil war era, the Old West, just too fascinating. What I call the, "old mix" stuff just looks awesome, I think. That's the old coins with (+/-) a 90% portion of gold and 10% bit of copper added for increased durability and wear resistance. They just tone so uniquely and nicely, and they got USED. The older, circulated gold coins are impressive, I think.
Anyway, and oh, by the way, $1500? I'd put it on a $20 Saint or Liberty, or perhaps a $10 Indian and/or a $5 Indian. You'll figure out what grade will fit within your budget. Enter the fray slowly, patiently, and wisely. Stay away from raw stuff while you're learning. Listen to the well-rounded (some less well-rounded
Also, try to have a little fallback stash of nice, old silver going too. That's good in case the gold pickings get slim for a while, ...and they will.
Hey, YMMV, ...regardless, have fun.
If all you want to do is have a stake in bullion and have it look pretty then the stuff at the mint does just fine in that arena as well.
<< <i>I would stay away from bullion and buy a gold coin if I were you. >>
AGE's and gold Buffalo's are legal tender U.S. coins and common date low MS grade classic Saints are treated as bullion since their value fluctuates with the spot price of gold. The bottom line is that a coin can be bullion and vice versa.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Depends what you want like everyone is saying, straight bullion/modern could probable get you an ounce and a quarter easy if you just want some quantity, while something old opens up quite a few options.
<< <i> what would you suggest? >>
Let me think. Hmmmmm
Perhaps a nice Carson City gold coin.
My #1 Low Ball Peace Dollar Set
What ever you decide, good luck! (My first was a raw ms61 1881 $10 Eagle. Baggy, but still beautiful to me!.)
Not my pics, just an example of the design...
<< <i>I personally consider it a coin, others treat them like bullion. I'll let you decide what you want to call it.
>>
Why can't it be both a coin and bullion? I don't understand why some think it can only be one or the other. The 50 Peso is a great coin with a really nice design.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>You can easily purchase a Civil War dated coin. Next year kicks off the 150th Anniversary ( Sesquicentennial ) >>
Excellent idea, especially for the history buff. The 1861 is the most common date and it also happens to be the first year of the Civil War.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i> what would you suggest? >>
Let me think. Hmmmmm
Perhaps a nice Carson City gold coin.
I do have to agree that if you do want to go modern and invest at the same time, your best bet is the 2009 ultra-high relief Saint Gaudens. Although it's categorized as a gold modern Eagle coin, with a different composition (24 karats vs. original 22 karat), I can't help but think of it as a continuation of the Saint Gaudens $20s. Why it's marketed as uncirculated instead of proof, I don't know, given that it's polished like crazy and struck multiple times using very carefully prepared dies in a feat of engineering well above and beyond anything else the mint has put out in the last eighty or ninety years. Numismatists who normally snub their noses at anything after 1964 have praised this coin.
$1500 gives you a lot of options. Just remember the general rules of thumb. First, PCGS or NGC--if it's an unknown third party grader, it might as well be raw. (ANACS and ICG have some credibility, so if you find a good coin that happens to be in one of their holders, you can try to get it crossed over at your own risk.) Second, gold bullion rises and falls like crazy, so don't feel bad if, two weeks later, the same coin could have been $100 cheaper. in the long run, it's gold.
Another thing to consider is timing of the markets at the moment. Right now, the "spread" between bullion prices and graded pre-1933 coins is pretty narrow. An MS64 Saint Gaudens is, if you shop around, maybe $250 away, and an MS63 even closer. Gold bullion is floating around $1200 an ounce. About a year ago, Saints actually cost a little more, but gold was closer to $1000 an ounce. This unusually narrow spread promted me to put aside shopping for low Charlotte and Dahlonega minted coins or AU Classic series $2.50s or $5s and instead get an MS64 Saint at a coin show last month. This is an unusually good time to buy. If you feel like playing the market, you could always trade when the spread widens and come out with more bullion later. But, admittedly, this is a gamble.
If you're interested specifically in the buffalo, you should get it. You should never get a coin just because that's what other people think you should do--otherwise, you could end up holding coins of only modest interest, while the back of your head continuously nags you about the ones that got away.
The buffalo bullion coins are very attractive, faithful reproductions of the beloved Buffalo nickel design. However, the price of gold dictates the price. If you are comfortable paying that much money for an ounce of gold, then go for it.
If I were determined to buy a single, large gold coin at this time, I would try to get a scarce, pre-1933 date in a high circulated grade.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
If you want to go with the older gold coins all I will say is only buy certified coins by either PCGS or NGC. The older gold coins are some of the most counterfeited and abused i.e. doctored coins on the market and can be a snake pit for the inexperienced collector. The extra cost of the slab is cheap insurance for the newbie.
But I do like the idea getting coins straight from the mint too, and myself I'm going for the last of the Liberties in proof and MS as soon as they are released to finish out that short set. I will submit mine for grading so they are easier to market by the kids when I’m gone.
BTW one of those 50 Pesos was my first GOLD COIN and I got it back in 1981 and still have it.
<< <i>>>>The coin is called Buchanan's Liberty, because he had no spouse.
That's like telling a modern guy he knows now what he speaks because he isn't speaking your classic language. <<<
No matter how you want to slice it............................THAT IS BULLION!!! >>
A distinction of inconsequence.
<< <i>If a coin has a dollar amount on it ($10) and is legal tender, would that not make it something more than a gold bullion bar? I think so. >>
When you buy a gold coin because of its gold content it is bullion coin. When you buy a gold coin because of it's value other than gold it is not a bullion coin. This means a bullion coin to one person may not be a bullion coin to another person.
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>
<< <i>If a coin has a dollar amount on it ($10) and is legal tender, would that not make it something more than a gold bullion bar? I think so. >>
When you buy a gold coin because of its gold content it is bullion coin. When you buy a gold coin because of it's value other than gold it is not a bullion coin. This means a bullion coin to one person may not be a bullion coin to another person. >>
Unless you have a million bucks to spend on the rarest of the rare gold coins, all gold coins, including the classics fluctuate with the market price of gold metal. I'm enamored with the the 2009 UHR. It's double-thick so the diameter is small compared to a classic $20 double eagle, but when you have the coin and capsule in hand you can feel the weight of the 1 oz. coin. For me, this would be a better first time gold piece than a Buffalo, but by all means buy what you like.
Cheers!
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BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Maine_Jim
<< <i>I'd much rather prefer a $20 Liberty or Saint. If you can find one, a nice Type II Liberty in around XF might be a good idea. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>You know as well as I do that Kennedy's are coins not bullion. Not a very good design, but a coin. Just another dead president coin. >>
Just trying to get your definition of bullion concerning coins. To you it is cut and dry with gold - 1933 being the determining factor. When is a silver coin a bullion coin? >>
I hate to inject myself into this debate...but: IMHO, a "coin" is something that was minted to be used in trade and/or can be spent to buy something. So, I've never considered the ASE's, modern gold (after 1933) etc to be coins. They are bullion. OTOH, the Presidential dollars, and such, are coins because they can be spent at the grocery store to buy something.