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At what point does a Well-Managed Promotion™ become something that is a benefit to numismatics as a
Longacre
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I was reading the latest Doug Winter blog, and in it he mentions coin promotions. Although he acknowledges that some promotions are the epitome of numismatic evil, he does mention that some Well-Managed Promotions™ are actually good for numismatics.
At what point does a Well-Managed Promotion™ turn the corner from being inherently evil, to one that is a benefit to numismatics as a whole? Is the creation of the popularity of a certain series, which no longer needs to be promoted, the measuring stick of whether the promotion was good or bad? In other words, so long as the market as a whole takes over in the establishment of prices of a promoted series (rather than through price manipulation by the promoters), is that ultimately a good thing?
Here is the excerpt from the blog:
“The word “promotion” gets a bad rap in numismatics. Yes, there are naughty promotions where worthless modern trinkets get hyped and sold to unsuspecting people for multiples of their true value. But in the better sense of the word, coin promotions can turn formerly unpopular series–like Type One Liberty Head double eagles–into popular ones. The key to a coin promotion is that it has to be sustained and it needs more market participants than the first wave to regenerate its initial success(es).
I mentioned the Type One double eagles series in the last paragraph. One of the most brilliant coin promotions of all time was the S.S. Central America.. The marketing group that owned the coins not only was able to sell them, they were able to generate enough new interest in this denomination that it impacted all Type Ones, not just the few dates that were included in the hoard.”
At what point does a Well-Managed Promotion™ turn the corner from being inherently evil, to one that is a benefit to numismatics as a whole? Is the creation of the popularity of a certain series, which no longer needs to be promoted, the measuring stick of whether the promotion was good or bad? In other words, so long as the market as a whole takes over in the establishment of prices of a promoted series (rather than through price manipulation by the promoters), is that ultimately a good thing?
Here is the excerpt from the blog:
“The word “promotion” gets a bad rap in numismatics. Yes, there are naughty promotions where worthless modern trinkets get hyped and sold to unsuspecting people for multiples of their true value. But in the better sense of the word, coin promotions can turn formerly unpopular series–like Type One Liberty Head double eagles–into popular ones. The key to a coin promotion is that it has to be sustained and it needs more market participants than the first wave to regenerate its initial success(es).
I mentioned the Type One double eagles series in the last paragraph. One of the most brilliant coin promotions of all time was the S.S. Central America.. The marketing group that owned the coins not only was able to sell them, they were able to generate enough new interest in this denomination that it impacted all Type Ones, not just the few dates that were included in the hoard.”
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
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The Continental-Illinois Bank Hoard The Continental-Illinois Bank,of Chicago, held a large quantity of silver dollars as part of its cash reserves.' This clever tactic was used by numerous banks in the United States, especially those who had numismatists among their directors, or who had good advice from clients who knew of the potential of these coins. During the year 1963 in particular, large quantities of Morgan dollars dated in the nineteenth century, and composed of many branch mint issues could be ordered easily from just about any Federal Reserve Bank.
The Continental-Illinois Bank did this. Unfortunately, in the late 1970s the bank fell upon difficult times, and .in the early 1980s it liquidated its silver dollars. A hoard comprising an estimated 1.5 million silver dollars of the Morgan and Peace types was bought in "the deal of a lifetime" by Chicago professional numismatist Ed Milas, proprietor of Rarcoa, who pledged to keep the details a secret.
The coins were marketed in the early 1980s through Colonial Coins (Dr. George Vogt) of Houston, Texas, and Silver Towne (Leon Hendrickson) of Winchester, Indiana. Unlike the Redfield dispersal, the Continental-Illinois hoard was distributed with very little press agency or commentary from newsletter writers. Most people in the coin market, including many dealers, were not aware of the extent of the hoard until later, when those involved began to recount their experiences.
No inventory was ever published of the holding. It is believed that Silver Towne sold at least 350,000 Uncirculated coins and perhaps half a million AU or so specimens,while Colonial Coins sold about 500,000 Uncirculated dollars. Dates involved included vast numbers of Mint State 1879-S, 1880-S, 1881-S (in particular) , 1882-S, 1883-O, 1884-O, 1885, 1885-O, 1886, and 1887 Morgan dollars.
The availability of 1881-S and other dates in large quantities prompted many buyers of the dollars to devise ingenious advertising and investment programs. At what was otherwise a quiet time in the market, the Continental-Illinois hoard did much to spur interest in silver dollars in particular and coins in general.
Leon Hendrickson Remembers
Leon E. Hendrickson, owner of Silver Towne, furnished the following recollections of his involvement with hoards.(Letter to the author, October 13, 1992. )
After word of the Redfield hoard leaked, I was very much interested. I had many 'phone conversations and meetings with Steve Markoff and his associates both in Reno' and California: Ulew to Reno the latter part of January 1976 and had one all-night session with Markoff, Steve Deeds, Hugh Sconyers. Jules Karp, and myself, for the purpose of purchasing a share of these dollars. It was finally agreed upon to give Jules Karp and myself a specified amount of dollar bags in return for our financial participation.
Jules and I split one bag of 79-CG Uncirculateds. I personally had six bags of 1879 flat breasted Type I Uncirculated dollars, of which I had previously owned very few of this variety in Uncirculated condition, plus there were many other bags that we received. I attended the auction and was prepared to participate in the entire hoard=but settled on a fraction in accordance with my agreement with Mr. Markoff.
In contrast to the Redfield collection the Continental-Illinois Bank hoard was much larger in total number of pieces, andmany millions of dollars more in value. The collection was dispersed of in an entirely different manner, I would say 99.9% of the numismatic world Knew nothing of this collection until it was entirely sold, thereby it did not negatively affect the silver dollar market.
While the Continental-Illinois Bank collection could not match the Redfield in mystique and aura of the Old West with visions of the Gold Rush, cowboys, and the lifestyle of LaVere Redfield, it could certainly outshine it in all other aspects. The sheer volume and beauty of these coins was overwhelming.
Never before or since have I ever been privileged to see such magnificent dollars, and I have handled more than my share of cartwheels since becoming a dealer in the early 1950s.
The bank had contacted Ed Milas of Rarcoa in Chicago about purchasing these bags of dollars, after the bank began to have some financial problems. Eddie Milas was the head figure in the entire scenario. As near as I can determine there were approximately 1,500 bags of Morgan dollars, with a value many millions of dollars more than the Redfield dollars. In comparison, the hoard made the Redfield dollars seem like the small potatoes Mr. Redfield reportedly dug in his youth!
Eddie Milas first contacted George Vogt of Colonial Coins in Houston, Texas. I would venture to say that George purchased probably around 500 bags and was involved for several months before I was contacted on the remaining coins.
I followed Eddie Milas as president of the Professional Numismatists Guild., We have always worked together for the betterment of numismatics, and became close friends and business associates, so it was only natural and not the least bit unusual that we entered into this massive arrangement with a nod of the head and a handshake. Nowhere to be seen was the battalion of lawyers, law firms and CPAs.
We decided early on that silence and astute marketing was the only way to protect the silver dollar market from plunging from this huge influx of new merchandise.
Five hundred of the AU bags were 1878-1885 with most ofthem being 79-80-81-82 New Orleans coins. Dates of the brilliant Uncirculated dollars went all the way from 1878 to 1904, with most of them from 1878 to 1888. A tremendous amount of these were S-Mint pieces. Some of these would today grade MS-66to MS-68 and were beautiful beyond description.
Eddie and I were trying to handle most of this ourselves. My employees had no idea of what was going on, as we invalved no more people than was necessary, and they had no idea as to the scope of the transaction. We chose the people carefully who we would sell to. Never did I take a single bag of these dollars to a coin show. We did not want large volumes of these showing up all at once. Instead we had many small trickles going continuously in many directions.
Throughout this entire time Ed and 1 did not have time to think about the finances balancing. Sure, there was a lot of money involved, but we never had time to actually make sure that 2 + 2 = 4, and we did not want anyone else to know how large this deal was, so we just muddled along, best that we could, given the time we had to deal with. Finally in late 1984 when everything was winding down, Ed called and said he was chartering a plane to fly to Winchester, so we could finish up the financial details and close the book on the Continental Illinois Bank collection. He said he thought I still owed him around one million dollars. That sounded plausible to me, given the manner we were handling the money.
I worked all day and most of the night-I finally came to the conclusion that the reverse was true and Eddie actually owed me! When he arrived I told him of my findings. To say the least, he was speechless. When he finally spoke, his words were: "Do you mean to tell me I chartered a plane and flew to Winchester to hear you tell me that?"
He went back to Chicago and a couple of days later called to confirm that I was indeed right. It is a testimonial to Our mutual friendship and trust that an undertaking as large as this could take place with no bitterness or misgivings and complete confidence in the honesty and integrity of each other. Isn't it sad that the business world has gotten so complex and untrusting that this type of arrangement is a thing of the past? I am privileged that my friend, Ed Milas had the confidence and trust in me, to include me in one of the greatest numismatic events to ever transpire.
Never. I have never understood why running up the market price of any collectable would be considered a benefit to anyone other than someone wanting to sell said collectables.
Of course, that's my take, you may define it differently.
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“The word “promotion” gets a bad rap in numismatics. Yes, there are naughty promotions where worthless modern trinkets get hyped and sold to unsuspecting people for multiples of their true value. But in the better sense of the word, coin promotions can turn formerly unpopular series–like Type One Liberty Head double eagles–into popular ones. The key to a coin promotion is that it has to be sustained and it needs more market participants than the first wave to regenerate its initial success(es).
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ROFL.
It looks like he already answered your question. If classics are promoted
it's good for the hobby but anytime money is put in moderns it's evil.
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Never. I have never understood why running up the market price of any collectable would be considered a benefit to anyone other than someone wanting to sell said collectables. >>
I tend to agree.
Except that sometimes a promotion can open up numismatic horizons a little
bit more than it fleeces the flock.
Maybe it's the "failed" promotions that are good for the hobby.