The coin I have had the hardest time finding for my set is a nice 1814. I have found several nice 14/3's and E/A's but have yet to locate any regular 1814's that I like. Perhaps you have them all
I also feel the 1836 beaded border to be underated
Overated I would included the 1836 reeded edge and the 1807's in VF+ are just way overpriced in my opinion
I think that the 1807 O-113 and O-114 (Small and Large stars) are under rated and MUCH tougher to locate, especially in AU. The more common 1807 O-112, while also tough to locate in choice AU and above are a little over rated in XF and below, JMO.
Also, the 1823's - Broken, Patched, and Ugly 3's are tough to find in choice AU and above, again just my observation/opinion.
Among the reeded edge CBH's, the 1839-O seems to be under rated and tough to find in AU. I'm sure there are many more Redbook varieties that can fit into both the under and over rated categories here.
Curious to hear other's thoughts and their reasoning.
Interesting thread....thanks for starting it Mike.
There are some dates/varieties that are plentiful in every grade, and some hard to find,( nice and in all grades.)
Plentiful, and probably over-rated:
1807 50/20, except in 63 and above.
1826 thru 1834. Even in MS64, there appears to be enough for all who desire them, and prices should be much lower compared to the earlier dates. ( a few exceptions always occur)
Hard to find, at all times:
1807 sm and lg stars in MS
1808/7 in MS
1812/1 lg 8 in AU
1809, 1810, 1811, 1813, 1815/2, 1817, 1820, 1821, 1823, 1827 c.2, 1827/6, 1829/7, 1832 lg ltrs, 1835, --all in gem.
I have not mentioned the ultra rarities, as they are beyond most collectors means. but they are all underrated.
That's a tough question to answer because you are really talking about four kinds of CBH collectors:
1. The "type" folks who are looking for a nice example of the series where the date or variety doesn't really matter that much. For these folks, none are overrated or underrated as the choice is so great and there are plenty of coins on the market.
2. The "date set" collectors who are looking for a run of dates from 1807-1836 (or perhaps including the closed collar pieces from 1836-1839). For these folks, the "overrated" pieces are just the expensive ones that are often "hyped" by dealers as "rare," such as those from 1807, 1815, 1820, 1821, and 1822.
3. The "Red Book" collectors who are putting together a set of the varieties as listed in the Red Book. For these collectors, it's a tough call because some of the coins, while expensive, are legitimately scarce pieces (e.g. 1812/11 O-101 "Large 8" is R5-) with price tags to match. Others may have high prices, but are readily available. Part of the "overrating" occurs when the Red book pricing is used as THE guide. It gives one an idea of relative value, but it's off the mark with respect to real pricing.
4. The Overton collectors (aka the CBH UberGeek) who are striving for all 450 Overton varieties. The "word on the street" is that most of the coins are overrated, with a rare few being underrated and unappreciated. This is also the reflection of the recent (over the past few years) price increase for the "common" nice coins. If I had to choose one coin that is almost universally considered "overrated" by the Overton crowd, it's the 1815/2. It's an expensive coin, but it is not rare (it's only an R2, which means is fairly common). It's price, however, is a reflection that just about everyone who collects the CBH series "needs" one.
This really is a conversation that could go on for many beers. I do think that what is underrated in the series are original coins that are correctly graded and well struck.
Lane
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Having collected these for a long time, I think that the entire series is overpriced at the moment, even with the drop that has taken place.
If I were collecting halves again, I would honestly put together a set in VG or Fine with strict standards. Just as challenging and not at all as expensive...
R6+ die marriages... they are way under-rated... should be 6 figure coins...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
I would imagine it depends upon the grade range chosen and the preferred appearance. For coins that look like they would be my interpretation of original, it has been my experience that the 1817/3 and 1839-O are far tougher to obtain with appreciable levels of remaining meat than any price guide might indicate. However, the 1836 RE half is far more common in just about any grade than its reported mintage would indicate, which makes me believe there is a serious error in the reported mintage.
<< <i>I would imagine it depends upon the grade range chosen and the preferred appearance. For coins that look like they would be my interpretation of original, it has been my experience that the 1817/3 and 1839-O are far tougher to obtain with appreciable levels of remaining meat than any price guide might indicate. However, the 1836 RE half is far more common in just about any grade than its reported mintage would indicate, which makes me believe there is a serious error in the reported mintage. >>
Define "1839-O are far tougher to obtain with appreciable levels of remaining meat". My 39 o is a lowly AG3 in a ghetto slab but since it isn't my focus and I didn't want to tie up too many funds it fit the bill nicely even with it original-ish-ish skin LOL got love the have to have a copy class of coins
I regret selling my 39-O. Just sold it recently. My theory was that I was eliminating the reeded edge portion of my CBH as they are not part of the Overton set.
You know I am just toying with you on the 17/3. It is a tough piece. I have about 150 or so CBH but not that one yet. I would snag your extra but AU on that one is a bit out of my range. I will have to settle for a VF/XF eventually
I know you were just toying with me on the 17/3. I haven't seen too many of these around in AU and that's why I picked up that second 17/3 in AU.
I have been searching for this overdate for quite some time and most I've come across have been dipped or cleaned with a look that just didn't fit my set.
I may look back one day and regret selling my crusty and original 17/3 but unfortuantely I can't afford to own 2 of these right now. Hopefully I can sell it to another CBH collector here on the boards instead of a dealer who will just flip it for a profit.
BTW, too bad you sold your 39-O, I remember you looking for a nice exampleof that date for quite some time.
Thanks again for starting this thread, love to always hear what others think about CBH varieties.
I think the 1825-36 CBHs in AU and low MS are overpriced these days. Every mint year has many common marriages, so the small number of Overton collectors are the only ones looking for uncommon marriages. Supply and demand rules. When I started collecting CBHs by Overton about forty years ago, I avoided 1825-36.
The REDBOOK variety I feel most overpriced is the 1807 O-112 50/20. This marriage is easily available in most any grade, and from most any grading service.
The 1817/3 is available in most grades, but its popularity is cause for pretty high prices. This overdate is so easy to see with the naked eye, that people really like it.
I would be foolish to say which CBHs I feel underrated, since I am always looking to buy such marriages. Don't want to encourage more price competition.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
<< <i>R6+ die marriages... they are way under-rated... should be 6 figure coins... >>
Is that including the digits to the right of the decimal?
So all are aware...there are only 7 Overton varieties (out of 450) that are R6+ and above (1 is R6+, 3 are R7, and 3 are R8). Even if you through in the 4 Overtons that are R6, anything R6 and above is rare and only a few people will own them. How much will they run someone? Well, how much ya got?
Lane
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
There is a huge difference in price between a R4 CBH and even a mid-level R5. R5+ is nowhere close in price to an R4. One really needs to pay attention to the pluses and minuses, not just the rarity number. Personally, I hesitate to pay much attention to later date rarities, believing many listed rarity numbers incorrect.
Edited to add, that I do believe R5 CBHs are risky buys. Just my personal opinion. The exceptions would be the top few in the condition census for the marriage. It seems the deep pocket boys most always manage to compete strongly for the best few.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
tydye
Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭
Comments
to locate any regular 1814's that I like. Perhaps you have them all
I also feel the 1836 beaded border to be underated
Overated I would included the 1836 reeded edge and the 1807's in VF+ are just way overpriced in my opinion
I feel the exact opposite on the 1807. I feel it is very overrated especially the 50/20.
1835 relative to the other 30s dates seems more sparce
<< <i>I think the entire series is over rated compared to CB Quarters >>
True as they saw much more daily commerce. But for this thread i only care about CBH relative to other CBHs not other series
Also, the 1823's - Broken, Patched, and Ugly 3's are tough to find in choice AU and above, again just my observation/opinion.
Among the reeded edge CBH's, the 1839-O seems to be under rated and tough to find in AU.
I'm sure there are many more Redbook varieties that can fit into both the under and over rated categories here.
Curious to hear other's thoughts and their reasoning.
Interesting thread....thanks for starting it Mike.
Plentiful, and probably over-rated:
1807 50/20, except in 63 and above.
1826 thru 1834. Even in MS64, there appears to be enough for all who desire them, and prices should be much lower compared to the earlier dates. ( a few exceptions always occur)
Hard to find, at all times:
1807 sm and lg stars in MS
1808/7 in MS
1812/1 lg 8 in AU
1809, 1810, 1811, 1813, 1815/2, 1817, 1820, 1821, 1823, 1827 c.2, 1827/6, 1829/7, 1832 lg ltrs, 1835, --all in gem.
I have not mentioned the ultra rarities, as they are beyond most collectors means. but they are all underrated.
I had a feeling you would chime in
As for what you wrote, I agree, however I also think it is all relative, in terms of what grade you collect. For instance, MS vs AU, and AU and below.
I do have one question on your reference to ultra rarities. Are you referring to grade MS66+ or overton rarities. R-7 etc?
1. The "type" folks who are looking for a nice example of the series where the date or variety doesn't really matter that much. For these folks, none are overrated or underrated as the choice is so great and there are plenty of coins on the market.
2. The "date set" collectors who are looking for a run of dates from 1807-1836 (or perhaps including the closed collar pieces from 1836-1839). For these folks, the "overrated" pieces are just the expensive ones that are often "hyped" by dealers as "rare," such as those from 1807, 1815, 1820, 1821, and 1822.
3. The "Red Book" collectors who are putting together a set of the varieties as listed in the Red Book. For these collectors, it's a tough call because some of the coins, while expensive, are legitimately scarce pieces (e.g. 1812/11 O-101 "Large 8" is R5-) with price tags to match. Others may have high prices, but are readily available. Part of the "overrating" occurs when the Red book pricing is used as THE guide. It gives one an idea of relative value, but it's off the mark with respect to real pricing.
4. The Overton collectors (aka the CBH UberGeek) who are striving for all 450 Overton varieties. The "word on the street" is that most of the coins are overrated, with a rare few being underrated and unappreciated. This is also the reflection of the recent (over the past few years) price increase for the "common" nice coins. If I had to choose one coin that is almost universally considered "overrated" by the Overton crowd, it's the 1815/2. It's an expensive coin, but it is not rare (it's only an R2, which means is fairly common). It's price, however, is a reflection that just about everyone who collects the CBH series "needs" one.
This really is a conversation that could go on for many beers. I do think that what is underrated in the series are original coins that are correctly graded and well struck.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>I dont think the 17/3 is tough. A guy I know has 2 of them.
But he only wants to own one!
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
If I were collecting halves again, I would honestly put together a set in VG or Fine with strict standards. Just as challenging and not at all as expensive...
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>
<< <i>I dont think the 17/3 is tough. A guy I know has 2 of them.
But he only wants to own one!
Lane >>
Thanks Lane
But the real question here is who wants to own the other one
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>I would imagine it depends upon the grade range chosen and the preferred appearance. For coins that look like they would be my interpretation of original, it has been my experience that the 1817/3 and 1839-O are far tougher to obtain with appreciable levels of remaining meat than any price guide might indicate. However, the 1836 RE half is far more common in just about any grade than its reported mintage would indicate, which makes me believe there is a serious error in the reported mintage. >>
Define "1839-O are far tougher to obtain with appreciable levels of remaining meat". My 39 o is a lowly AG3 in a ghetto slab but since it isn't my focus and I didn't want to tie up too many funds it fit the bill nicely even with it original-ish-ish skin LOL got love the have to have a copy class of coins
You know I am just toying with you on the 17/3. It is a tough piece. I have about 150 or so CBH but not that one yet. I would snag your extra but AU on that one is a bit out of my range. I will have to settle for a VF/XF eventually
I know you were just toying with me on the 17/3. I haven't seen too many of these around in AU and that's why I picked up that second 17/3 in AU.
I have been searching for this overdate for quite some time and most I've come across have been dipped or cleaned with a look that just didn't fit my set.
I may look back one day and regret selling my crusty and original 17/3 but unfortuantely I can't afford to own 2 of these right now. Hopefully I can sell it to another CBH collector here on the boards instead of a dealer who will just flip it for a profit.
BTW, too bad you sold your 39-O, I remember you looking for a nice exampleof that date for quite some time.
Thanks again for starting this thread, love to always hear what others think about CBH varieties.
The REDBOOK variety I feel most overpriced is the 1807 O-112 50/20. This marriage is easily available in most any grade, and from most any grading service.
The 1817/3 is available in most grades, but its popularity is cause for pretty high prices. This overdate is so easy to see with the naked eye, that people really like it.
I would be foolish to say which CBHs I feel underrated, since I am always looking to buy such marriages. Don't want to encourage more price competition.
<< <i>R6+ die marriages... they are way under-rated... should be 6 figure coins...
Is that including the digits to the right of the decimal?
So all are aware...there are only 7 Overton varieties (out of 450) that are R6+ and above (1 is R6+, 3 are R7, and 3 are R8). Even if you through in the 4 Overtons that are R6, anything R6 and above is rare and only a few people will own them. How much will they run someone? Well, how much ya got?
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
That's a sweet 1827 O.148! Great pick up!
zap
102 capped bust half dollars - 100 die marriages
BHNC #198
Follow up question. Are R-5s a good buy or are they too risky being only one step above a R-4 which in most cases present little or no premium?
Edited to add, that I do believe R5 CBHs are risky buys. Just my personal opinion. The exceptions would be the top few in the condition census for the marriage. It seems the deep pocket boys most always manage to compete strongly for the best few.