Worst graders in World Coins

ch972900 · June 3, 2010 7:56AM

OchoReales · June 3, 2010 7:59AM

Please, tell us how you REALLY feel!

coinkat · June 3, 2010 8:21AM

I am sensing some negative vibes here... Some opinions are better than others. PCGS is an outstanding grading service- I have had differences of opinions with them in the past- I respect their opinion and I believe they respect mine even though we do not always agree.

Why not post images of the coins that PCGS deemed were cleaned here and see what response you get from members here?

Law suit threats seem inappropriate given that grading is an opinion and this is merely a hobby.

ajaan · June 3, 2010 8:22AM

You are willing to spend 1/2 Million Dollars just because you are pissed at PCGS or ICCS? I think the only winners here will be your attorneys. Grading is subjective, that includes deciding whether a coin is cleaned or not. Also, ICCS and PCGS do not use the same grading criteria. I have seen a lot of lightly cleaned coins in ICCS holders that PCGS would now put in a PCGS Genuine holder.

OchoReales · June 3, 2010 8:25AM

<< You are willing to spend 1/2 Million Dollars just because you are pissed at PCGS or ICCS? I think the only winners here will be your attorneys. Grading is subjective, that includes deciding whether a coin is cleaned or not. Also, ICCS and PCGS do not use the same grading criteria. I have seen a lot of lightly cleaned coins in ICCS holders that PCGS would now put in a PCGS Genuine holder.[/

I agree. I have seen a number of ICCS graded Palestine Mandate pieces that were also cleaned and neither PCGS nor NGC would have given them legitimate grades.

ch972900 · June 3, 2010 8:33AM

ormandh · June 3, 2010 8:38AM

Are you from Canada or from across the pond? I am only asking this because how you insert the $ behind the figure and your "First if they are hobbyist, then why charge 65$ a coin to get Secured plus?" phrase. -Dan

Musky1011 · June 3, 2010 8:41AM

I an sensing someone is going to get bammed

canadacolornut · June 3, 2010 9:48AM

Guess I missed the fun since there is no "Post #3" and the first two are out there in the etheric
somewhere.

Hopefully, though, no one in their right mind is seriously considering a law suit over something as
subjective as grading standards.

Bloody fingers from trying to trim a hedge with a lawn mower clearly labeled "Caution, don't put fingers under mower
guard while the blades are whirling" maybe-particularly if the word "whirling" was misspelled.

But coin grading!!?

Do keep in touch now, you hear

marcmoish · June 3, 2010 11:04AM

this chap went MIA now - guys he's also new - what a day old?....probably doesn't realize how this all works.

Hey ABC read up on past threads on How To and the 411 on this hobby - once you read the information you'll understand better what your options and avenues are or could be etc.

Good luck

Marc

wybrit · June 3, 2010 9:43PM

Hmmm, seems I missed something here.

JCMhouston · June 3, 2010 9:57PM

No, you guys didn't miss much. Guy sends in a bunch of ICCS coins to cross, about half are cleaned, going to sue somebody.

SaorAlba · June 3, 2010 10:17PM

And our OP slithers back into ignominy...

wybrit · June 3, 2010 10:33PM

No, you guys didn't miss much. Guy sends in a bunch of ICCS coins to cross, about half are cleaned, going to sue somebody.

I find some of those bitter but evanescent posters provide rather entertaining diatribes. Then again, it doesn't take much to amuse me.

OchoReales · June 3, 2010 10:39PM

I really wanted to see this one continue. Would have been interesting!

newsman · June 3, 2010 11:46PM

Wow -- this thread is still here?

RareBronzeCollector · June 4, 2010 12:10AM

Amazing

7Jaguars · June 4, 2010 12:42AM

Yes, these posts, if allowed are a nice break from "what did you win at auction" types. A little controversy is sometimes a good thing.

Not that I am PCGS (far from it) but I would have to be confident re: the services offered and the quality of such. There is always a bit of unhappiness with bits here and bits there but overall a great service ----- shameless plug I guess.

JCMhouston · June 4, 2010 12:59AM

You know that sucking up won't get you higher grades don't you?

RareBronzeCollector · June 4, 2010 1:18AM

I have much more of an issue with Mis-Attributions on world coins.... Applies to ALL TPG's.....

If you want the bucks, at least be accurate....

Zohar · June 4, 2010 3:30AM

Always can crack it open and re-submit you may be surprised

MacCrimmon · June 4, 2010 3:41AM

<< Always can crack it open and re-submit you may be surprised

>>

Indeed, and one can learn to grade coins first and save many headaches later. I frankly don't know why ICCS gained such a following given their ghastly holders (alleged conservative grading or not). You can scarcely even see the coin through two semi-clear panes of 'oil'.

marcmoish · June 4, 2010 3:54AM

I have never bought or won an ICCS graded coin that was actually what the label said. Not that many at all maybe 8 items over the years..still none were what the were "supposed" to me and most were played or cleaned. Whatever!

docday2003 · June 4, 2010 6:13AM

even in Canada, ICCS is losing market share, and getting a worsening reputation. I personally have had nice coins in their holders get bb for altered surfaces when I've tried to cross over to pcgs. And when you try to examine the surfaces through their holders, the evidence of the alteration is obscured. But anyhow, over on the CCRS under the discussion section, and the heading "what to do" there is a current post of someone's experiences with a 1938 cent which is turning green inside the iccs holder. Not good advertising!

RobP · June 4, 2010 9:33AM

<< I have much more of an issue with Mis-Attributions on world coins.... Applies to ALL TPG's.....

If you want the bucks, at least be accurate.... >>

Although I agree in principle, I also feel constrained to say au contraire. Mis-attributions have produced some real gems in both variety and price. A little lack of knowledge can go a long way.

Lancastercoin · June 4, 2010 5:26PM

<< 

<< I have much more of an issue with Mis-Attributions on world coins.... Applies to ALL TPG's.....

If you want the bucks, at least be accurate.... >>

Although I agree in principle, I also feel constrained to say au contraire. Mis-attributions have produced some real gems in both variety and price. A little lack of knowledge can go a long way. >>

I have been keeping this in this holder for laffs; I got a $3k offer for it from a knowledgeable British dealer a couple shows ago

coinkat · June 4, 2010 8:33PM

That looks as if it is more likely an error than a misattribution- I suspect someone entered the number for the mod eff instead of the regular 1926 1d

BTW, Nice coin

wybrit · June 4, 2010 9:55PM

I know LancasterCoin would not misrepresent a piece - he's one of the few here I know in person and is a stand up dealer. I never get any quality time at the show because his table's always drawing a crowd.

ajaan · June 4, 2010 10:02PM

<< I have been keeping this in this holder for laffs; I got a $3k offer for it from a knowledgeable British dealer a couple shows ago >>

Sell?

canadacolornut · June 4, 2010 10:52PM

What have you done with Blondie, Don?

Syracusian · June 5, 2010 3:49AM

<>

Sell?

Absolutely. I would be laughing much harder with $3K in hand and NO remorse, unless I was in very friendly terms with said dealer.

I'll bet that this coin can still pass through the expert eyes of auctioneers and find several bidders who'd pay up to own it. Having said that, there's still time to edit the image of that post.

coinkat · June 5, 2010 4:17AM

It seems the most appropriate course of action is to return the coin to PCGS and give them the opportunity to address this- keeping a coin like this in its current holder does not benefit anyone-

It may be worth a few giggles here and there, but at the end of the day, I stand by what I wrote earlier.

edited for spelling

Lancastercoin · June 5, 2010 8:49AM

As a professional numismatist I can't ethically sell coins that are misrepresented, and I myself stand behind what I sell without relying on PCGS's guarantee to make my buyers whole in the case of an error. To stick someone with this coin would be actionable fraud, in my opinion.

As far as appropriate action, coinkat, I find the laffs to be more beneficial to me right now than the ~$400ish this coin is worth in the right holder. It's not like gem G5th copper is going to plummet in value or anything (hopefully). If you're ever by my booth at a show let me show you some of my "things" in P/N holders.

I think Wybrit saw a particularly "amusing" example recently at our last local show! To me these are helpful in instructing collectors that the grading services don't replace education and the guarantee provided by a reputable dealer.

My friend who made me the high offer on it surely only did so because he only gave the coin a cursory glance since he knows I wouldn't stick him. Cursory glances lead to much worse things than this *cough*rebuilt full head on standing quarter*cough*.

wybrit · June 5, 2010 8:56AM

See my edited comment above.

RareBronzeCollector · June 5, 2010 9:55AM

Here's a favorite of mine....

coinkat · June 5, 2010 10:34AM

Lancastercoin-

I agree that education is the key to building a collection of distinction

Syracusian · June 5, 2010 1:15PM

Allright you gods of dignity and high priests of virtue, I retreat but won't edit my take-the-money-and-run post earlier on. As a citizen of a country just about to default and get kicked out of the euro, every such opportunity looks good to me all of a sudden, but you angels won't let me. I dig. Lancasterboy, I didn't know you were a dealer, such behaviour is seen only among collectors praying for victims to make them pay for the mistakes they did themselves in earlier years with a vindictive attitude.

But I still find Robp's comment excellent regarding misattributions, let alone that we hijacked an otherwise condemned thread.

I agree that education is the key to building a collection of distinction.

And money kat. I'll skip the education for a while if you show me the money!

Lancastercoin · June 5, 2010 4:24PM

Syracusan - Don't get me wrong, if it was in the right holder and someone made me a $3k offer - SOLD!! Just last night a Hibernia farthing I'd consigned to our coin club auction sold for $140 after spirited bidding, when only three weeks ago at the Denver show anyone could have bought it out of my case for $55-$75. No foul there, because there was no misrepresentation.

coinkat · June 5, 2010 8:48PM

Dimitri and Landcaster Coin

I suppose I have a different perspective on this because I still believe this was an error that traspired when the incorrect number was entered at the time was likely received at PCGS- I do not enter the PCGS coin code for each coin- it just appears that someone looked and entered the number from the wrong line- I serious doubt that it was submitted as a Mod Eff- I suppose a review of the submission sheet will settle that.

The periods on the initials are so bold that I am just not able to accept this is a misattribution- if it truly is a misattribution and not a clerical error- it is abundantly clear that some explaining is required.

I am in no way attempting to be the moral police here or put myself or anyone else on a pedestal- and certainly it was never my intent to suggest or imply that either of you are not of the highest character- Dimitri- I recall meeting you att he NY international afew years back- I consider you my friend and I would like to see it remain that why. As for Lancaster Coins- hopefully our paths will cross at a major show in the near future.

Syracusian · June 5, 2010 9:52PM

Kat, I've been around here long enough to know that you did not mean anything more than you wrote. And you know that we're still friends. Before shroom's post Sell? I had written a similar opinion but the better part of me decided against posting it. I did however eventually give in to my lower instincts, which I now regret.

Lancastercoin, I totally agree with you. You make an excellent case and you sound fair and very honest.

Worst graders in World Coins

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