Early Eagle with Gold Sticker at Heritage
earlyAurum
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It's always interesting to see where a coin such as this will sell. This one is particularly interesting because it is a significant date but the coin has some serious adjustment marks on the obverse that in my opinion would make me hesitate. But from the image, the color and luster look outstanding. Thoughts? I will do a post-mortem after the auction.
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That was a lot of money in 1804. I wonder what few items this lightly circulated coin was used for. A bit of interstate commerce perhaps? How many of these would have bought you a business? 10?
I find it interesting that while the mint was very consistent about their dies, attempting to keep every coin looking identical...something like an adjustment mark 'got a pass'.
I mean, the San Francisco mint got in trouble for deepening certain design elements so that the dies would not basin out later. Philadelphia did not like that at all. Something like that affects the design of the coin less than an adjustment mark!
About a year ago I sold this Flowing Hair dollar. This coin is totally original with no defects outside of the adjustment marks which were mint caused and part of the minting process for these early coins. The reverse is especially choice for this type. The adjustment marks on the obverse never bothered me because they seemed to flow with the design, but when I shopped this coin around several dealers rejected it out right because of them. I sold the coin, but the price was couple thousand less than I thought I would get.
Gold sticker or no, those adjustment are a problem when it comes to setting a market price.
As the song in Fiddler On The Roof.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
<< <i>Numerous die adjustment marks appear in the right obverse field, extending onto the forepart of the face. Others appear near the bottom of the bust, and a few post-strike scrapes intermix among the adjustment marks, although none are overly severe. >>
Well, as you noted, the adjustment marks are prominent. They are an immediate turn-off to me...especially for the kind of money the coin will likely bring.
Maybe I'm being too critical...but that's not a coin for me.
Thanks for pointing out the coin.
<< <i>I am going to guess that the adjustment marks are less obtrusive in-hand.
Thanks for pointing out the coin.
My experience with Heritage photos has been that marks look worse in hand than they do in the photo.
I don't why this coin got a gold sticker. The implication from the gold sticker is that could very well upgrade which would mean a low end MS grade. From a market acceptance standpoint, I don’t think that is accurate. This is the kind of coin that if it were in a Mint State holder could be a trap for a less than well informed buyer. PCGS may have given it the AU-58 because of the adjustment marks and their location. The marks definitely lower the desirability of the coin and would make it a “low end Mint State” IMO.
To me the coin is worth AU money because of the adjustment marks, and given that AU-58 is where it belongs.
My own experience is that some coins looks better and some coins look worse. With adjustment marks and scratches, changing relative angle of the marks and camera (and changing the viewing angle, for that matter) can make a huge difference in the conspicuity of said marks.
One other possibility is that the coin looked "new" in-hand and was deserving of a 60/61 grade.
<< <i>To me the coin is worth AU money because of the adjustment marks, and given that AU-58 is where it belongs. >>
Based on the pics I too thought it might have been "netted" to 58 based on the adjustments.
But I have not seen it in hand, and could be completely wrong.
JJ
<< <i>I wonder how on a new style holder with gasket, that the coin rotated by 20 degrees or so. So an AU58 with gold sticker means what, that CAC believed the coin to be a 60 or greater?
JJ >>
My limited experience with the gold sticker suggests that the coins with them are lock upgrades, and many are multi-upgrades.
<< <i>I wonder how on a new style holder with gasket, that the coin rotated by 20 degrees or so. So an AU58 with gold sticker means what, that CAC believed the coin to be a 60 or greater?
JJ >>
MS-60 is a rare grade. Most of the time you can figure on MS-61 if it upgrades. So far as I'm concerned the price of an MS-61 should not be much more, if anything, more than an MS-60, but I didn't like this coin for either of those grades.
that said, I wouldn't be bidding 62 money, even if I had bundles of cash lying around.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>In my experience, true AU58 early type usually sells for MS61 money anyway! >>
True, but I've learned though experience that the adage “Adjustment marks were a part of the minting process and do not affect the grade,” holds for academic discussions only. When comes to the coin market HEAVY adjustments, especially those that are in the wrong place, like the portrait of the coin, knock down the value of the piece.
The 1804 BD-1 eagle offers much numismatic interest that is well beyond the marketing hysteria for stickers and plus signs. The working hub used to sink the reverse working die of the 1804 BD-1 was also used to make working dies for all heraldic eagle reverse half dollars made from 1805 through 1807. The dentils were part of the working hub, and not individually engraved on the working dies as on other US coins until the steam press initial usage in 1836-1837. The only other denomination to use hubbed dentils was the obverse of quarters during the same years, for some reason this experiment with hubbed dentils was abandoned in late 1807 with the capped bust design.
<< <i>Wow. Right in the face. Ouch.
That was a lot of money in 1804. I wonder what few items this lightly circulated coin was used for. A bit of interstate commerce perhaps? How many of these would have bought you a business? 10? >>
From this site:: What cost $10 in 1804 would cost $141.13 in 2009.
Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I believe all the negative responses on this forum could have caused the cancellation of this auction. Nobody putting up a valuable coin wants to see many people, who probably cannot afford the coin in the first place, giving a negative opinion. Especially when it is both slabbed and CAC'd. Who's opinion should count the most? If you owned this coin, what would you have done?