What coin did you pay the largest premium over GreySheet
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How many multiples of Grey Sheet did you pay, and what was the coin?
The reason I ask is that a coin has become available that I have been looking for for several years but the seller is asking 7x bid.
The reason I ask is that a coin has become available that I have been looking for for several years but the seller is asking 7x bid.
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In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Now, go find another one!
It's been pretty well documented that Greysheet values for Barber Halves in VF/XF are laughable in relation to actual market activity for any better date coin.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
You are not going to get proof seated coinage at bid or ask.
Edit: Btw, they were common date/high grade/weakly struck Buffalo nickels - there was nothing special about them that could have made the coins carry a significant premium.
<< <i>What coin did you pay the largest premium over GreySheet >>
I haven't the faintest idea, because I don't use Greysheet.
<< <i>I've been looking for greysheet prices on private gold - what page is it on?? >>
Ditto for colonial era coins.
In fact, the GreySheet is pretty much worthless if you collect the really cool coins.
Ain't that the truth.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>Most likely, all of them.
But shouldn't 81-Ss go for bid?
But for those greysheet bashers, you should heed what Dr. Pete said "Savvy dealers generally know when to use the sheet and when to use other pricing information." I would insert 'collectors' in there with dealers.
Eliasberg 1912 MPL
Empty Nest Collection
Just "signed off" on a purchase of an AU58 coin for $750... the MS60 bid is $400...
As for the moon money that many toners are getting... not a race I care to enter... I've seen some that I like but not enough to go to the moon over... just as well for those who do like them and are willing to pay the hefty premiums... you don't need any other competition...
I've seen many circ Barber halves and quarters... better dates... going for 3x bid and higher... I stay out of those races as well...
OTOH... I have left hefty amounts of $ on the table by using the sheet to buy and sell... Grey Sheet is only an accurate guide for the most regularly traded items... and is even off on many of those... sometimes too low and just as often, too high...
<< <i>Won a VF20 PCGS 1909-O Barber 25c in an auction for $340 last year... bid is/was $150... ended up selling it to another forum member (also an underbidder in the auction) for a 10% markup...
Just "signed off" on a purchase of an AU58 coin for $750... the MS60 bid is $400...
As for the moon money that many toners are getting... not a race I care to enter... I've seen some that I like but not enough to go to the moon over... just as well for those who do like them and are willing to pay the hefty premiums... you don't need any other competition...
I've seen many circ Barber halves and quarters... better dates... going for 3x bid and higher... I stay out of those races as well...
OTOH... I have left hefty amounts of $ on the table by using the sheet to buy and sell... Grey Sheet is only an accurate guide for the most regularly traded items... and is even off on many of those... sometimes too low and just as often, too high... >>
I'll buy an entire roll of 1909-O Barber Quarters in AU for MS60 bid. Would probably even buy a whole roll at the $750 price! I still can't believe the PCGS Price guide has an AU55 priced at $600 when the last AU58 that sold went for just over $4000.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I find that hard to believe.
<< <i>All those who claim not to even look at the Gery Sheet, are you telling me if you like a coin you will pay whatever they ask with no reference to any price guide? >>
I prefer to look at auction records...far more accurate than the greysheet. I know the approximate value of all the coins I'm interested in.
<< <i>well I can pretty much guarantee that if you are ever interested in selling one of your coins, for one of a dozen good reasons, every dealer in the country is going to pull out the Grey Sheet look at the bid price subtract XX% and make you an offer. >>
That doesnt really dictate the way the buyers market realizes itself though.
<< <i>well I can pretty much guarantee that if you are ever interested in selling one of your coins, for one of a dozen good reasons, every dealer in the country is going to pull out the Grey Sheet look at the bid price subtract XX% and make you an offer. >>
Who says any of would sell to a dealer anywhere near sheet? If you have good coins, a dealer who uses sheet will not be getting them more than likely.
<< <i>
<< <i>well I can pretty much guarantee that if you are ever interested in selling one of your coins, for one of a dozen good reasons, every dealer in the country is going to pull out the Grey Sheet look at the bid price subtract XX% and make you an offer. >>
Who says any of would sell to a dealer anywhere near sheet? If you have good coins, a dealer who uses sheet will not be getting them more than likely. >>
Agree. A major auction would give you the best results unless you can sell it to a dealer who has customers looking for PQ coins and have deep pockets.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
How can I get one?
Sorry - still learning.
Even after I took a downgrade to a pcgs 63 from an Ngc 64 I still could triple my money if I sold it.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
I sold them all for decent returns. The main thing is a bargain isnt always a bargain. Always look at a coin and think what buyers are going to think when you try to sell it.
<< <i>OK, those that follow the auction prices what would you pay for a 1849-O quarter VG10? >>
Why such a specific example? And who is the grader, a dealer in a 2x2, PCGS, NGC, Anacs, etc...? PCGS has certified 2 in VG-10, I can't find an auction record of one in a PCGS holder. NGC has certified only 1...it sold at Heritage for about $1,450 in 2006. Heritage sold a couple of Anacs VG-10s, the most recent for about $2,100 in 2006...this exact coin recently sold on ebay for $2,600.
I like seated quarters, but any of the auction records that have photos I see...I'm not a big fan of the eye appeal on the 1849-O in VG-10. The PCGS price guide lists a value of $750. I have no idea what the grey sheet value is on this coin. Based on all of the information available on this coin now around the Internet...I would probably pay $950 for it. That value is based on the fact, I don't like the coins out there in VG-10...so to put my money at risk, I want the potential at a 100% markup. eBay most likely being the outlet.
A collector who can navigate around the Internet, should have little use to grey sheet.
Who says any of would sell to a dealer anywhere near sheet? If you have good coins, a dealer who uses sheet will not be getting them more than likely.
The vast majority of the US type coin market (gold, silver, nickel, copper) tends to trade pretty closely in line with Grey sheet prices. That's a pretty big chunk of the US coin market. The same can probably be said for the majority of late 19th and all 20th century dated series. If you feel greysheet is not an accurate representation of the majority of the coin market, then you'll be holding on to your coins for a long time.
Last time I saw a coin I liked and the dealer pulled out the greysheet to price it I could not get the smile off my face, who prices 1860's unc s mints at greysheet in holders?
But not all "S" mints are underpriced on Grey sheet (including the 1860's). I can find some that are fairly priced and even overpriced in today's market. Certainly a number of S mints are still underpriced on Grey sheet. I for one as a big fan of the price discrepancies in Grey sheet. As long as it exists, those with knowledge have the advantage.
OK, those that follow the auction prices what would you pay for a 1849-O quarter VG10?
For the top 20 or so dated seated quarters (minus 70cc to 73cc) the greysheet tends to be low by a factor of 2X to 3X for circ coins. The 1849-0 is in that group. Though because it has received much more publicity over the past 35-40 years and has an "unknown" mintage, it is more accurately priced in CDN vs. most of the other top 20 seated quarter dates. The 51-0 or 52-0 are far more stupidly priced than the 49-0.
I've never understood the logic of paying $4000 for an AU58 1909-0 quarter when I can buy a MS63 for less. Worst case is that I carry that coin around in my pocket for a few years and turn it into an AU58. There are some coins that bring a nice date premium today that didn't exist 15-20 years ago. No doubt some people have hoarded accumulations of these dates in the process to swing the market. In decades past it was rare to find someone who just wanted many multiples of better dates rather than one of each in a complete date set. But today, there are numerous collectors/hoarders who like commodity speculators, just accumulate certain dates. And the more of each date they pull off the market, the rarer they look. There are probably enough decent Fine-AU 1909-0 quarters out there to fill a hole in every set that honestly needs one. But with the large demand from those hoarding the date, the supply/demand/price equation shifts.
roadrunner
GS and PCGS is the wrong tool for your job. Those price guides are more appropriate for frequently traded coins (Mercs, Morgans, Franklins, etc). Use eBay to get a better idea of a "fair market" price for semi-key seated material. And I'll take a roll of 49-o quarters at bid.....
Long time eBayer with 100% feedback rating, trying out the PCGS boards to save the fees!
Successful transactions with several board members here including abitofthisabitofthat, marcovan and others
Valuations were essentially 80-95% of the market values of properly graded coins (slabbed or unslabbed).
Now many of the greysheet values are as little as 30% or even less of properly graded coins.
I can offer very specific examples if anyone cares.
I think 3x Sheet would be verging on a You Suck.
<< <i>Back in 1993 through 1999, the greysheet was MUCH more relevant.
Valuations were essentially 80-95% of the market values of properly graded coins (slabbed or unslabbed).
Now many of the greysheet values are as little as 30% or even less of properly graded coins.
I can offer very specific examples if anyone cares. >>
Oh I can name a whole bunch... Pretty much any tough VF/XF Barber Half... 93-S, 96-O, 96-S, 98-O, 05-O, 07-S.....
<< <i> Oh I can name a whole bunch... Pretty much any tough VF/XF Barber Half... 93-S, 96-O, 96-S, 98-O, 05-O, 07-S..... >>
Well said; my examples were all mint state examples of various denominations which shows that it is across the board in the greysheet.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>
<< <i>OK, those that follow the auction prices what would you pay for a 1849-O quarter VG10? >>
Why such a specific example? And who is the grader, a dealer in a 2x2, PCGS, NGC, Anacs, etc...? PCGS has certified 2 in VG-10, I can't find an auction record of one in a PCGS holder. NGC has certified only 1...it sold at Heritage for about $1,450 in 2006. Heritage sold a couple of Anacs VG-10s, the most recent for about $2,100 in 2006...this exact coin recently sold on ebay for $2,600.
I like seated quarters, but any of the auction records that have photos I see...I'm not a big fan of the eye appeal on the 1849-O in VG-10. The PCGS price guide lists a value of $750. I have no idea what the grey sheet value is on this coin. Based on all of the information available on this coin now around the Internet...I would probably pay $950 for it. That value is based on the fact, I don't like the coins out there in VG-10...so to put my money at risk, I want the potential at a 100% markup. eBay most likely being the outlet.
A collector who can navigate around the Internet, should have little use to grey sheet. >>
Patches,
You are pretty good, actually, the one that sold at Heritage in 06 and the one that just sold on ebay are the same coin. And for the record the one that just sold on ebay went for $2400 (with the Bing cash back buyers "premium")
But I will go out on a limb and say, you will never own a 49-O quarter.