Can coin dealers still claim...
Placid
Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
Can coin dealers still claim a coin in a secure plus holder that didnt get the plus is a high end coin?
If not will dealers that specialize in high end coins still want non plussed coins?
Will dealers in general not want non plussed coins as they will be harder to get top dollar for?
If a dealer sold you a pre-plus pcgs graded coin as high end for the grade and you sent it to pcgs and it did not get a plus would it lessen your faith in that dealer?
If not will dealers that specialize in high end coins still want non plussed coins?
Will dealers in general not want non plussed coins as they will be harder to get top dollar for?
If a dealer sold you a pre-plus pcgs graded coin as high end for the grade and you sent it to pcgs and it did not get a plus would it lessen your faith in that dealer?
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Comments
buyers can offer whatever they want
buyers can walk away from a potential purchase whenever they want
buyers do not have to worry about a coin in their collection when they did not buy it
<< <i>buyers do not have to worry about a coin in their collection when they did not buy it >>
What?
Of course they can, and so can collectors. We are still dealing with OPINIONS.
<<If not will dealers that specialize in high end coins still want non plussed coins?>>
There will be plenty of great coins in non-plus holders.
<<Will dealers in general not want non plussed coins as they will be harder to get top dollar for?>>
The cost is equally important to the sales price. And any coin that is priced right will sell.
<<If a dealer sold you a pre-plus pcgs graded coin as high end for the grade and you sent it to pcgs and it did not get a plus would it lessen your faith in that dealer?>>
No. Even if PCGS's opinion was guaranteed to be correct, just because a coin doesn't get a plus, doesn't mean it's not high end for the grade. A coin that, based on an opinion, isn't in the top 10-15% for the grade can still be "high-end".
These discussions get very confusing, very quickly. I am glad that I focus on mid-grade coins, and I think I will further concentrate my focus to this area.
Gary
<< <i>I like Evan Gale's take on this issue ... >>
Evan put my exact thoughts into words. He is the man.
<< <i>Can coin dealers still claim a coin in a secure plus holder that didnt get the plus is a high end coin?
If not will dealers that specialize in high end coins still want non plussed coins?
Will dealers in general not want non plussed coins as they will be harder to get top dollar for?
If a dealer sold you a pre-plus pcgs graded coin as high end for the grade and you sent it to pcgs and it did not get a plus would it lessen your faith in that dealer? >>
Would you rather own a non-plused 65 or a plused 64? Which coin has a higher grade---the plus coin or the non-plus coin?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
All nonplussed coins coins are not created equal. Certainly, some can be PQ for a nonplussed coin, and others will be low end. Similarly, a plussed coin can be either high or low end for a plussed coin. Therefore, I would expect that many discerning dealers will have many PQ coins to offer in both categories, plussed and nonplussed.
BTW, if you think this is confusing, be glad that the TPGs are using + and not PQ. Otherwise, we would be dealing with "Low End PQs" and "PQ non-PQs".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
*NEW* Ultra-scarce in full GEM condition, this date will only cost you around $60,000 in a MS65 case. This MS64 is soooo close. Minimum marks, full strike and strong original luster make this MS64.8 real value.
on this page.
Acknowledging the existence of the 64.8 grade lends credibility to those that choose to document or verify it, IMO.
Many great coin will not be in + holders. As long as the price is right.
I don't really care about the little dragnet logo thingy
The BIG problem is most dealers whip out the GreySheet and dont carry around or care about the PCGS price guide. So how will the price of a + coin be determined on the fly at a coin show? Heck, the GS doesnt even show AU55 prices, which makes for a real pain in the neck when selling coins of this grade.
<< <i>I like Evan Gale's take on this issue ... >>
Good read. I can further understand the dilemma to dealers in high end material (such as Evan) who buy sight seen and are buying the coin and not the holder. The dilemma arises when dealing with the retail public, where some will desire a CAC or a + designation on ALL their coins... especially if he is not to disclose it in his description of coins for sale. I would imagine that for the customers he has that insist on buying only CAC coins, he is going to have to disclose it to them over the phone or risk losing the customer.
If you are selectively buying coins at auction or from other dealers, and you have a good eye, you're going to end up with an inventory of coins stickered, not stickered, + or no +, shield or no shield. Some buyers are going to shy away from coins with no designations whatsoever on the holders, which is really a shame, as they may be as good or better than the others. Such is the problem I think many dealers are going to face now with "mixed" inventory. Hopefully there are enough retail buyers out there who will trust the dealer's eye instead of the holder, but I fear this may not be the case. And I wonder if we are going to see some sort of backlash at some point at all this. Maybe as Julian suggested in another post we should go back and just let the market determine the value of the coin regardless of what's on the holder's.
Just some rambling on my part, but the real quality material at auction is still going to command top prices, regardless of what's on the slab. It's the retail end that is going to be most impacted by all of this.
Evan's best line was, "So it gets right back to the coin...every one is different and every coin must be evaluated on its own merits." That kind of sums up my feelings too.
John
<< <i>Evan's article is well written and thoughtful. I find nothing to disagree with. No one though, is really discussing the 'laserprint' aspect of their program. This is the gateway to computer grading and the eventual 'death' of opinion. Mark my words. Cheers, RickO >>
When opinion on something as subjective as grading a coin, with all the aspects and qualities of that coin being reduced to a string of 0's and 1's (if that is ever achievable), it'll be time to go elsewhere.
Hopefully there are enough retail buyers out there who will trust the dealer's eye instead of the holder, but I fear this may not be the case.
Sadly, there are relatively few dealers out there who I would trust to tell me if a coin is high end or not....probably <100 across the entire country. Most retailers and most B&M shops just don't have those kind of grading chops. If you figure there are 10,000 dealers out there, that only comes to 1%.
roadrunner
<< <i>More than not being able to claim a coin is high-end in the Secure Plus Non-plus holder, it might be harder for dealers to extract a premium for the coin that is medium/high end for the grade.
These discussions get very confusing, very quickly. I am glad that I focus on mid-grade coins, and I think I will further concentrate my focus to this area.
I also constrain my collection to coins that grade x.4, x.5, and x.6 (mid grade coins!)
<< <i>Until the TPG's are proven to be infallible, coin dealers and coin collectors can still claim their coin is high end. The problem is that most of them will probably be wrong seeing as >95% of collectors and dealers are not as proficient as TPG graders.
Hopefully there are enough retail buyers out there who will trust the dealer's eye instead of the holder, but I fear this may not be the case.
Sadly, there are relatively few dealers out there who I would trust to tell me if a coin is high end or not....probably <100 across the entire country. Most retailers and most B&M shops just don't have those kind of grading chops. If you figure there are 10,000 dealers out there, that only comes to 1%.
roadrunner >>
I agree with your percentage of retail dealers who are capable of doing it consistently. And that may even be a bit high.
<< <i>
<< <i>Until the TPG's are proven to be infallible, coin dealers and coin collectors can still claim their coin is high end. The problem is that most of them will probably be wrong seeing as >95% of collectors and dealers are not as proficient as TPG graders.
Hopefully there are enough retail buyers out there who will trust the dealer's eye instead of the holder, but I fear this may not be the case.
Sadly, there are relatively few dealers out there who I would trust to tell me if a coin is high end or not....probably <100 across the entire country. Most retailers and most B&M shops just don't have those kind of grading chops. If you figure there are 10,000 dealers out there, that only comes to 1%.
roadrunner >>
I agree with your percentage of retail dealers who are capable of doing it consistently. And that may even be a bit high. >>
However few such dealers there are that have the ability, there are far fewer who also have the objectivity.