All the money spent on PCGS by the hobby, has it been worth it?

TConn · March 30, 2010 12:24AM

I'm talking the total dollar value spent on having coins certified by PCGS. The total spent by both collectors and dealers.

Has this investment been a net gain for the hobby? The millions (billions?) spent certifying coins could have been spent on other things. Was it worth it?

I'm not taking a position either way, just interested in discussing.

doh · March 30, 2010 12:28AM

Yes it was worth it.

nankraut · March 30, 2010 12:30AM

IMHO, an unqualified YES. I'm just not very good at detecting cleaned/counterfeit/tooled/etc/etc coins. Without PCGS, I would probably have given up the hobby years ago, because of dishonest people who were/are pervading the hobby. With PCGS, I can be reasonably sure I'm not being duped.

dsessom · March 30, 2010 12:34AM

If it wasn't worht it, I wouldn't be here. PCGS has done great things for the hobby/business.

lkeigwin · March 30, 2010 12:36AM

Without question, yes. It has been good for collectors and good for the hobby.
Lance.

AU58WALKERS · March 30, 2010 12:38AM

fo sure

relicsncoins · March 30, 2010 12:52AM

The market place says that it is. Otherwise they wouldn't be in business any longer.

Sonorandesertrat · March 30, 2010 12:53AM

Absolutely worth it. I started collecting more than 40 years ago, and the old days were pretty rotten. Many dealers were ripping customers off right and left, mainly by undergrading when buying and overgrading when selling. It is harder for dealers to get away with this now. Leaving the issue of grade aside, remember that reputable TPGs also provide a lifetime guarantee of authenticity. Blatant rip-offs by dealers still happen, but collectors now have the option of just buying already certified coins in many specialties. This provides real consumer protection, and isn't perfect (there are still problem coins that occasionally get by the graders) but much better than before and the coins in top-two slabs are more liquid in the marketplace as a result.

What is more problematic is more subtle--issues involving gradeflation and market grading. There used to be a firm delineation between AU and UNC, and that isn't true anymore. While I agree with the concept that really nice AU58 coins should be priced at low MS levels, I don't think that they should be graded as such. There has been a blurring of technical grade (which should be constant in theory) and price (which will fluctuate with market conditions). I would favor a tougher approach to grading, more along the lines of EAC net grading, and then allow the marketplace to determine values of choice coins.

ocon4008 · March 30, 2010 1:03AM

A resounding yes, and this is just the beginning. The technology that PCGS will change this business again over the next several years.

OnlyGoldIsMoney · March 30, 2010 1:06AM

An unqualified yes. I cannot imagine how internet buying and selling could function credibly without firms like PCGS. Today issues related to overgraded problem coin are largely limited to misrepresented raw coins. Casual coin sellers like myself can resell graded coins without fear of losing much of their initial investment.

Ahrensdad · March 30, 2010 1:07AM

It was the wild west before PCGS and other TPG's. The TPG's leveled the playing field for the average collector. That doesn't absolve any individual from knowing how to grade, but it sure helped you make sure you're getting what you've paid for (is the coin real, tampered with etc...). I could go on, but I have limited time, and I suspect others will chime in.
Andrew

chucknra · March 30, 2010 1:13AM

Definately.

coincollector2007 · March 30, 2010 1:40AM

Yes! I wouldn't be collecting without them.

Why do they have to change the rules again??????

yellowkid · March 30, 2010 1:50AM

<< If it wasn't worht it, I wouldn't be here. PCGS has done great things for the hobby/business. >>

Of course it has!

runningman · March 30, 2010 1:52AM

This is a good question, I tend to think the hobby is better off with a service like PCGS. Another question might be, what would the hobby look like in 2010 without third party grading.

SeaEagleCoins · March 30, 2010 1:53AM

If one considers all the recent banishments (along with a speedy reinstatement, I might add

) ... coupled with the rules at the top of page one... I would be quite surprised to see anything but affirmatives (with possibly a neutral or two) in response to this question...

As for me? I am neutral on the topic

... after all, I am still wrestling with finding a way to philosophically justify how any coin is worth more than it's basic intrinsic value (in a world where many, if not most, folks don't even have two coins to rub together... or even food to eat)... but hey... that's just me...

LanLord · March 30, 2010 1:59AM

I would never have found this website if not for PCGS

DeepCoin · March 30, 2010 2:39AM

I would never have returned to collecting without TPGs being involved. All the comments above apply in terms of wild, wild west and dealer from 40 years ago. It drove me out as the entire process was unfair on a good day and now there is mostly a level playing field.

The major TPGs have been the salvation of the collecting hobby IMHO.

ziggy29 · March 30, 2010 2:40AM

Overall yes -- primarily in the area of certifying authenticity -- but it's not without some unfortunate side effects. I think it (not just the slabs but also the registry) has helped price many nice coins out of my range as more people buy with added confidence, thus increasing the price. And in reality I personally would prefer to see slabbers only certify authenticity rather than trying to grade and/or "price" coins on the label, but I assume I'd be way outvoted on that one.

Baley · March 30, 2010 2:42AM

What is more problematic is more subtle--issues involving gradeflation and market grading. There used to be a firm delineation between AU and UNC, and that isn't true anymore. While I agree with the concept that really nice AU58 coins should be priced at low MS levels, I don't think that they should be graded as such. There has been a blurring of technical grade (which should be constant in theory) and price (which will fluctuate with market conditions). I would favor a tougher approach to grading, more along the lines of EAC net grading, and then allow the marketplace to determine values of choice coins.

In other words, let the dealer undergrade when buying and overgrade when selling

LindeDad · March 30, 2010 2:47AM

<< This is a good question, I tend to think the hobby is better off with a service like PCGS. Another question might be, what would the hobby look like in 2010 without third party grading. >>

Check out the eBay replica listings or the tread about Chinese counterfeits. Or just think back to the days of buying its POS, selling it's a GEM.
I for one starting buying PCGS graded coins when the coins described as MS I was getting came with rub. Even the best of return privileges’ get to be disappointing.
And it is not just our host's but a few other companies also have added to the hobby.

Type2 · March 30, 2010 2:54AM

I guess. I know one thing if I take a raw coin to a show to sell. All I get is if it was in a PCGS holder I would buy it. Now that sucks no one want to buy a coin raw coin any more. Only if they can steal it from you they will. That is Not right.

Justacommeman · March 30, 2010 3:06AM

The coin collector below was very happy to see PCGS come along.......................MJ

TwoSides2aCoin · March 30, 2010 4:33AM

<< The coin collector below was very happy to see PCGS come along.......................MJ

>>

I'm just here for the refreshments.

SeaEagleCoins · March 30, 2010 5:01AM

What this thread needs is rld14's avatar

Broadstruck · March 30, 2010 5:53AM

jhdfla · March 30, 2010 6:09AM

It's certainly been good for David Hall.

Steve27 · March 30, 2010 6:14AM

Yes, TPG was and is needed. The question is will PCGS/CU survive?

SeaEagleCoins · March 30, 2010 6:20AM

<< The question is will PCGS/CU survive? >>

I see you got your list out
Well say your peace then get out
If I get the gist of it
Well it's alright

Oh well a touch of grey
Kind of suits you anyway
Every silver linings got a
Touch of grey

We will get by
We will get by
We will bet by y y
We will survive

(Grateful Dead

)

Bear · March 30, 2010 8:25AM

Worth every penny. The cheapest insurance policy in the world.

ecichlid · March 30, 2010 8:28AM

Yes, a good thing.

johnny9434 · March 30, 2010 8:40AM

yes and the education is very well worth it

RWB · March 30, 2010 8:44AM

The part attributable to authentication – yes.
The part attributable to identifying altered coins – yes.
The part attributable to subjective grading – no.

OPA · March 30, 2010 8:46AM

<< Yes, TPG was and is needed. The question is will PCGS/CU survive? >>

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, that not only was money well spend and that PCGS without question will survive as the premier grading company in the foreseeable future and possibly make lots of $ for their stock holders.

eggbone · March 30, 2010 9:30AM

<< Without question, yes. It has been good for collectors and good for the hobby.
>>

Lakesammman · March 30, 2010 9:47AM

I wouldn't be a coin collector w/o the TPG's.

ponderit · March 30, 2010 9:52AM

Was it worth it??? IMO, absolutely.... it's all relative anyway. I see some guy dragging a $30K, $40K bass boat down the road and I think, da**, am I glad I collect coins! If I'm not a total idiot and always use a little sense about what I buy, I should be able to get back at least what I paid for a given coin and the fact that it's been graded and sealed only makes that more of a probability. The guy with the boat, the thing is worth half of what he paid within a short time and fish is 3 dollars a pound (don't get me wrong, I love to fish, but on somebody else's boat).

Of course I always try to point out to my wife some of the other hobbies guys have that could be a lot more expensive... She's a quilter; did you guys know they make a $4,000 sewing machine? They do, I know first hand, it's white with a bunch of buttons

GrumpyEd · March 30, 2010 10:31AM

Yes it was.

coinkat · March 30, 2010 10:41AM

Yes

coinguy1 · March 30, 2010 10:42AM

I guess I read the OP's question differently than everyone else did. I took it to mean, if you added up all of the money spent on PCGS grading, how does that total compare to how much more coin value is in the marketplace as a result of PCGS's existence. And of course, while the former might be able to be ascertained, there is no way to know the latter.

Goldbully · March 30, 2010 10:44AM

<< I guess I read the OP's question differently than everyone else did. I took it to mean, if you added up all of the money spent on PCGS grading, how does that total compare to how much more coin value is in the marketplace as a result of PCGS's existence. And of course, while the former might be able to be ascertained, there is no way to know the latter. >>

Interesting premise!

Aegis3 · March 30, 2010 10:53AM

I'm down as a no, per the reasoning in RWB's post, extended to note that grading services are technically not needed for an authentication service. I view the former as just a way to perpetuate the absurdity of numerical grading.

JSsson · March 30, 2010 12:22PM

Yes, because peace of mind is worth a lot of money in my opinion.

All the money spent on PCGS by the hobby, has it been worth it?

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