Thanks Don. Are you only going to scan the SecurePlus coins or will you scan every coin that comes in? I ask this because what prevents someone from cracking out a stolen SecurePlus coin and resubmitting at the normal level? Or submitting doctored coins at the regular level? Thanks.
Save $$$ on many purchases to include EBAY and EBay Stores.
atarian - we are grading on a 700 point scale. To receive a + designation a coin has to grade xx7, xx8 or xx9. We have taken this mathematical approach to minimize the emotional aspect (ex. - eye appeal) and to insure consistencey. Eye appeal is a factor (see our announcement on Product Spotlight) but more importantly is the technical grade. I don't see this grade range expanding.
chucknra - we realize there are ways to exploit the system and we will deal with them in due time. As we launch on day one (now day two) we don't know what to expect and we are being a little conservative. Eventually I would like to check every coin that comes in on either service - simply to see if it had ever been in a Secure Plus holder, but that is down the road.
<< <i>RogerKirt - PCGS Secure Plus has been trademarked by PCGS. Our lawyers handled it. >>
Don - It has not been trademarked. Armen only filed an application that has not even been assigned to an examining attorney yet. I'm just saying, you better have a back up name for the service as I bet you are going to run in to some problems with the financial company that already holds the trademarks on several permutations of "SecurePlus".
How long exactly have you been slabbing Secure Plus coins? Who was eligible to participate in having their coins go through the new process if the announcement was only made yesterday and the coins were slabbed earlier?
I apologize if this has been addressed prior but there are too many like threads to read........Can't get to them all
Thanks, MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Don, I will continue to favor buying PCGS coins and will seek to buy Plus coins, where they make sense for my collection.
I am concerned about submitting coins, however. Off the cuff, I have about a dozen coins that I think would be excellent candidates for Security Plus at the Express level. However, given that Express level service currently is running 15-30+ days, based on personal experience and reports of others, it is hard to get excited about rushing out and submitting coins for this service. Will the Security Plus coins get priority service, or will they be placed at the back of the queue?
Hello sir - I believe I now know the answer to this question but want to make sure before I send my coins in:
I simply have 6 coins currently in PCGS holders that I want to be evaluated for the "+". If I understand correctly, in order to do this I need to pay the $65 express fee per coin and send them in as a "Regrade" Submission? The $20 "PCGS Plus Reholder Fee" would not give the coins the "+" on the holder if warranted?
Mr. Willis, you must be tired of answering questions...but one BIG question I have;
At what point will the scanned image of the coin be used to determine the grade by comparision with other scanned images of the same date/type/grade of coin that is already recorded into the computers memory bank?
Or, will grading Forever be left up to the human eye, and the laser scanning application only be used for recording information purposes.
In preparation for the launch I assume there was testing? My question is how many coins have been scanned in trials to ensure that 2 coins don't show the same "fingerprint"?
Thanks for answering!
Matt
Matt Dinger Lost Dutchman Rare Coins Indianapolis, IN ANA 3137206 PCGS Authorized Dealer
Don, I realize that this new product is a competitive advantage to your closest competitor(s). However, in the interest of the overall coin community, Wouldn't it make sense to somehow allow a sharing of this very vital fingerprint data? Personally, I think this technology is awesome and I applaud PCGS for coming out with it.
I just wish it was out sooner. I also strongly wish that this was ubiquitous among ALL coin grading and ALL services. If it were, it could go a long way towards the long term goals that PCGS and coin hobbyists have long desired (fighting coin doctoring, stolen coins, counterfeiting, gradeflation, etc.).
Will there eventually be a way to send in a coin for a provenance check without grading? This seems to be something that would be a companion to helping with identifying stolen coins. If so, will the scanning process work while coins are sealed in other TPG holders? Will a "hit" on your database by a coin previously holdered by PCGS but now in another holder cause you to update the provenance, deactivate the old PCGS serial number, and adjust the populations? It would then be useful to certificate verifications on competitors' certification numbers that you can link to a coin PCGS is known to have slabbed in the past. This will keep many original coins from being busted out of PCGS holders in the future, dipped, and sent elsewhere for fear that a provenance check, perhaps initiated by an auction house as a matter of SOP for all coins valued above a certain threshold, will reveal the coin has been given a chemical peel. (I suddenly find myself thinking of the episode of Seinfeld wherein George takes a book in the the bathroom at a bookstore, has to buy it, and can't return it anywhere because it's been "flagged.")
I have just gone through the PCGS Price Guide using barber halves, peace dollars and saints as examples. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the amount given to the PLUS Coins. The multiplication factor is all over the place. At first I thought it was either 30% or 50%, but the examples I did at random used these percentages------15%, 11.1%, 17.5%, 18.9%, 23%, 33%, 20%, etc.
It would be ok if all the coins had the PLUS values listed , but I am guessing only about half are listed.
This means that a common percentage cannot be used to determine the value of any coins I may have submitted and earn the Plus sign, so if a buyer for any of my newly encased coins with the Plus sign asks me how much I want for the coin and the value is not listed in the PCGS price guide, I will be at a loss to determine the correct multiplier. So far, to me, this is extremely confusing. I wish the new system only used 1 or 2 multipliers. Why are there so many ? Again, if all the values are listed for the Plus coins in the PCGS guide, it would be very helpful.
<< <i>RYK - the lasers power is very low and will not affect the coin. >>
What about coins that are "crusty"? How will the laser affect the dirt, grime, or debris in the coin's crevices?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
staircoins - we've done it both ways. we decided just to scan the obverse.
RogerKint - thanks. I am having Armen check into it.
Justacommeman - we began selectively disclosing this project to certain customers in advance to solict their comments and advice. We slabbed app. 2000 coins in Secure Plus holders prior to the launch.
RYK - Express Service is running app. 5 or 6 days. We measure this every week.
Coincollector - you are correct. In order to be eligible for the + you must send your coins into Secure Plus as a regrade. Reholders will only be reholdered in their existing grade. BTW - the same guarantee applies to Regrades sent into Secure Plus as the regular line, i.e., your coin will not downgrade.
ambro51 - we have no plans to replace the graders (human eye) with a machine. The huge benefit provided by Secure Plus is we will now know the grading history of any coin previously sent in. Secure Plus is not intended to provide the grade for the coin. It is to provide information to the Finalizer.
LostDutchman - we tested tens of thousands of coins. We've been at this for a very long time. This project was one of the best kept secrets in the industry.
First, thanks for answering all these crazy questions. I would like to know why the "+" is limited to coins grading above XF (as shown below I believe this should be an AG-3+ if submitted)?
"It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
<< <i>staircoins - we've done it both ways. we decided just to scan the obverse. >>
Interesting, and thanks for taking to time for some Q&A here. So if a coin doctor only messed with the reverse, the process wouldn't detect it? Or am I missing something?
I would like to know what programs are used on the laser to detect coin doctoring ??? It would be interesting to know, since I own several raw colorful Morgan dollars that I plan on submitting in the near future.
Don, Is this service going to be offered as a free grading at the Platinum or Gold level Collector's Club or as a quarterly freebie??? April is right around the corner and a LOT of people would buy/renew for the grades. Thanks.
Save $$$ on many purchases to include EBAY and EBay Stores.
I think the SecurePlus service will be a winner! Regarding the "+" grades, as you have said, astute dealers and collectors have recognized premium quality coins for years and "paid up" for that quality. So I agree it's time for objective third-party recognition of that premium quality. Bravo!
All that being said, there are a LOT of premium quality red and red-brown copper coins out there. For example, Lot #1134 from the Naftzger III sale, an 1852 cent graded by PCGS as MS65RD, which realized $28,750:
Versus, for example, Lot #1128 from the Naftzger III sale, another 1852 cent graded by PCGS as MS65RD, which realized $6,612.50:
Similarly, these two 1851 cents were both graded by PCGS as MS65RD in the Naftzger III sale, with the first (lot #1031) realizing $24,150, and the second (lot #1041) realizing $3,680:
My question is, now that the PCGS SecurePlus+ service is finally available here in 2010, does that mean that if copper collectors wish to use the service, must they submit their coins for "regrade," and in so doing terminate their current PCGS grading guarantees as to the red or red-brown color of their coins? Or has PCGS already thought of this and have worked out a program (perhaps a limited-time program, for a transitional period) for copper collectors under which they may submit coins already in PCGS holders for regrade while maintaining the guarantee?
I'll ask three questions that have been alluded to, but not answered directly.
1) Is a Secure Plus reholder in effect a re-grade evaluation for the possibility of receiving a "plus" designation?
2) What is the difference between a Secure Plus Reholder and a Secure Plus Regrade?
3) If I submit an old holder coin with the intention of receiving a "plus" designation, is there an option to leave it as is should it not make the cutoff?
What will PCGS's protocol be when a coin gets flagged as a stolen coin?
Like many other devices that are touted for their accuracy you always see something along the lines of this device is 99.99% accurate. Do the devices you are using and the system have a similar rating? If so would this be something your company is willing to share?
Matt Dinger Lost Dutchman Rare Coins Indianapolis, IN ANA 3137206 PCGS Authorized Dealer
If I submit my already PCGS slabbed coins to Secure Plus, are my coins subject to regrading and therefore I could see upgrades, downgrades and Plus designations?
Mr. Willis, could you please comment on the following excerpt from the Patent app?
this is in regards to certfication "without" holdering:
0017]Moreover, coin owners not wanting their coins to be encapsulated in a plastic holder can have the means of having a professional grade applied to an unencapsulated coin, with a separate certificate of grade being provided, the coin and the certificate would be linked by the coin ID file to assure the right coin stays associated with the grade certificate.
Would such coins be allowed into the PCGS Registry as normal? Is a "cert. number" provided? Could such a coin in turn be submitted to NGC (sorry to use that word but ...) for encapsulation, and still retain full PCGS certification as well?
There are a lot of repeat questions in this thread so I would advise everyone currently asking questions to go back and re-read the previous questions and answers as you may not need to post
Got tired of waiting for a response and called regarding the following questions. Below is what the CS rep told me:
<< <i>1) Is a Secure Plus reholder in effect a re-grade evaluation for the possibility of receiving a "plus" designation? >>
No. Secure Plus reholder will only laser scan and reholder your coin at the same grade level.
<< <i>2) What is the difference between a Secure Plus Reholder and a Secure Plus Regrade? >>
The regrade will actually re-evaluate the grade on your coin and make it eligible for the + or even an upgrade.
<< <i>3) If I submit an old holder coin with the intention of receiving a "plus" designation, is there an option to leave it as is should it not make the cutoff? >>
No way. It's coming out of the holder and going into a new slab regardless.
I had a quick look through the questions and don't think this has been asked:
My worry is that some coins might "turn" after being holdered and thus not be correctly identified by the scanner.
As we know the holders aren't 100% air tight and coins have been known to tone and develop spots after holdering.
For example if you scan a coin that has developed a little toning around the edges since being holdered and having been scanned, will the scanner not believe it to be a different coin if re-scanned?
Hello Don, I would like to know if I submit some PCGS coins that I have now and they have True View Pictures to be regraded under the Secure Plus service , will I loose access to my True Views I have now and have to pay again for the another True View as the serial # will be new?
many of my best PQ coins and Toned coins have True Views now.
Also if you regrade a PCGS them under Secure Plus and now decide it is not NT, what happens? ( not that I think I have any AT in PCGS holders, but I tried to cross 2 others in another TPG slab over this past year and they were not crossed because of questionable color. Some coin doctors are getting to good.
(also just edited to ask why PR 60 and PR 61 coins are excluded.)
Since I heard that crossovers are not included in this new program, and all my coins are already TPG holdered, I just an hour ago sent off two crossover submissions at the regular service. I don't see why you decided not to include crossovers in this new Secure Plus program. I might have a few that are worth the extra PCGS fees, very few.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
<< <i>Did anyone consult a trademark attorney first? SecurePlus is a federally registered trademark for Financial Services - a similar class to Coin Grading Services. Is there a back up name for the service if PCGS is prevented from using someone else's trademark? How about CostPlus? >>
How about "Obscure Plus" ? Just joking Mr Willis. Please forgive my dry sense of humor.
You mentioned in your previous post that MS60/61 graded coins were not eligible because they are pretty beat up and like lipstick to a pig. While this may be true for some coins, my PCGS-graded Gold Indian Head Half Eagle coins do not seem beat up (at least to me and the dealer where I bought them from). The incuse design of the coin has posed some challenge to most graders (even to some PCGS graders) that grading accuracy has been an issue with this particular coin.
My questions are:
(a) Would it be possible that the exclusion of MS60-61 graded coins be re-considered for particular coins (such as the Gold Indian Head Half and Quarter Eagles)?
(b) Has the laser technology used in SecurePlus worked well with the incused design?
How long exactly have you been slabbing Secure Plus coins? Who was eligible to participate in having their coins go through the new process if the announcement was only made yesterday and the coins were slabbed earlier?
I apologize if this has been addressed prior but there are too many like threads to read........Can't get to them all
Thanks, MJ >>
I was wondering about that myself. Looks like some dealers/collectors could keep a secret?
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
I know Don asked for "no comments, just questions" in this thread (wish some folks would just read that and listen to it) and that he has been great answering. Since he doesn't seem to be answering right now, and I read some questions that are easily answered BY THE VIDEOS on the main PCGS.COM page, I wanted to just comment and suggest that people go there and watch HRH and Don talk about this new design/service.
Then, you may find your question already answered
If you don't at least view the video(s) first, you should hold on your questions, imho.
After having had played golf for many years it is difficult to explain to someone that you played well but scored badly. Also, you can play badly and score well. Does not the same principal apply to coin grading and the people that grade them? Suppose I send my coins in and the grader is having an off day? I have just spent "X" amount of dollars for a substandard service. Will there be a recourse procedure to compensate for this if I disagree with the grading?
Ron
Edited to add: I am referring to Secure Plus
Collect for the love of the hobby, the beauty of the coins, and enjoy the ride.
Prethen - we have no plans to share our database with another grading company. For starters we would like to recoup the millions we've spent building what we have.
messydeck - there are a lot of possibilities that we will get to eventually. However, the system requires the coin to be out of a holder.
Proof - our initial load of + prices used this formula: the lesser of 20% of the spread between the base grade and the next grade up, or 50% of the base grade. We are already adjusting these prices (up).
PerryHall - we have not found anything that prevented the system from recognizing the coin.
Steve27 - we arbitrarily decided on XF45 - MS68. Perhaps that will be revisited in the future.
ziggy29 - think about it. If a coin grades higher than before the finalizer will be looking at it very closely. We can always scan both sides if we want to.
robkool - it's probably not a good idea for me to get too specific in how we use the lasers.
chucknra - our first request for a freebie!!! We'll take that into consideration.
cardinal - excellent question. It is not our intention to void a copper warranty if a coin that already qualifies is submitted for regrade under Secure Plus. We'll have to come up with a solution. We will. thanks for pointing that out. btw, I've already seen some really nice early copper that "plused".
renomedphys - reholder and regrade work exactly the same for Secure Plus as for our regular service. The only way to get a + is to send your coin in to Secure Plus as a Regrade. Just like the regular service, when you send a coin in for regrade you lose the old holder.
LostDutchman - we haven't worked out the protocal for assisting in the recovery of stolen coins. That shouldn't be too difficult. As for the accuracy rating. So far its been 100% but even if it was 99% we would more than achieve our goal.
earlyAunum - if you submit your PCGS coin as a Regrade under any service you are guaranteed that the grade will not go down. Under Secure Plus you could get a higher grade, a +, or the same grade you started with.
If a coin were stolen, would one small tick on a non distracting place allow the coin to go undetected by the software or does the software look for patterns and if X% match, then it's flagged?
If a coin were stolen, would one small tick on a non distracting place allow the coin to go undetected by the software or does the software look for patterns and if X% match, then it's flagged? >>
That's answered in the David Hall / Don Willis videos I referenced above, on the PCGS.COM site. They did things to the coins and they were still recognized.
<< <i>Mr. Willis, you must be tired of answering questions...but one BIG question I have;
At what point will the scanned image of the coin be used to determine the grade by comparision with other scanned images of the same date/type/grade of coin that is already recorded into the computers memory bank?
Or, will grading Forever be left up to the human eye, and the laser scanning application only be used for recording information purposes. >>
This is an excellent question.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Comments
Are you only going to scan the SecurePlus coins or will you scan every coin that comes in? I ask this because what prevents someone from cracking out a stolen SecurePlus coin and resubmitting at the normal level? Or submitting doctored coins at the regular level?
Thanks.
Big Crumbs Link
Mr Rebates Link
EBates Link
Chucknra@yahoo.com
itsnotjustme - + grades will received an extra 1/2 pt. for weighting. Honestly I'm not sure how we are doing it on circ. grades. Contact BJ.
BaronVonBaugh - it takes app. 45 seconds to scan a coin
RYK - the lasers power is very low and will not affect the coin.
RogerKirt - PCGS Secure Plus has been trademarked by PCGS. Our lawyers handled it.
NASure - no prices should have been omitted as a result of Secure Plus. I will forward this to IT to check out.
dcarr - for obvious reasons there is only so much technical information we want to disclose.
Broadstruck - at this time cert. verification will not show if the coin is in a Secure Plus holder. Not a bad idea though.
Don - Thanks again for posting here and taking these questions!
Are both sides of the coin scanned? Or only the obverse?
Mike
chucknra - we realize there are ways to exploit the system and we will deal with them in due time. As we launch on day one (now day two) we don't know what to expect and we are being a little conservative. Eventually I would like to check every coin that comes in on either service - simply to see if it had ever been in a Secure Plus holder, but that is down the road.
<< <i>RogerKirt - PCGS Secure Plus has been trademarked by PCGS. Our lawyers handled it. >>
Don - It has not been trademarked. Armen only filed an application that has not even been assigned to an examining attorney yet. I'm just saying, you better have a back up name for the service as I bet you are going to run in to some problems with the financial company that already holds the trademarks on several permutations of "SecurePlus".
+ Link +
How long exactly have you been slabbing Secure Plus coins? Who was eligible to participate in having their coins go through the new process if the announcement was only made yesterday and the coins were slabbed earlier?
I apologize if this has been addressed prior but there are too many like threads to read........Can't get to them all
Thanks, MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I am concerned about submitting coins, however. Off the cuff, I have about a dozen coins that I think would be excellent candidates for Security Plus at the Express level. However, given that Express level service currently is running 15-30+ days, based on personal experience and reports of others, it is hard to get excited about rushing out and submitting coins for this service. Will the Security Plus coins get priority service, or will they be placed at the back of the queue?
I simply have 6 coins currently in PCGS holders that I want to be evaluated for the "+". If I understand correctly, in order to do this I need to pay the $65 express fee per coin and send them in as a "Regrade" Submission? The $20 "PCGS Plus Reholder Fee" would not give the coins the "+" on the holder if warranted?
Thanks for your time.
At what point will the scanned image of the coin be used to determine the grade by comparision with other scanned images of the same date/type/grade of coin that is already recorded into the computers memory bank?
Or, will grading Forever be left up to the human eye, and the laser scanning application only be used for recording information purposes.
In preparation for the launch I assume there was testing? My question is how many coins have been scanned in trials to ensure that 2 coins don't show the same "fingerprint"?
Thanks for answering!
Matt
Lost Dutchman Rare Coins
Indianapolis, IN
ANA 3137206
PCGS Authorized Dealer
I just wish it was out sooner. I also strongly wish that this was ubiquitous among ALL coin grading and ALL services. If it were, it could go a long way towards the long term goals that PCGS and coin hobbyists have long desired (fighting coin doctoring, stolen coins, counterfeiting, gradeflation, etc.).
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
It would be ok if all the coins had the PLUS values listed , but I am guessing only about half are listed.
This means that a common percentage cannot be used to determine the value of any coins I may have submitted and earn the Plus sign, so if a buyer for any of my newly encased coins with the Plus sign asks me how much I want for the coin and the value is not listed in the PCGS price guide, I will be at a loss to determine the correct multiplier. So far, to me, this is extremely confusing. I wish the new system only used 1 or 2 multipliers. Why are there so many ? Again, if all the values are listed for the Plus coins in the PCGS guide, it would be very helpful.
Thanks
<< <i>RYK - the lasers power is very low and will not affect the coin. >>
What about coins that are "crusty"? How will the laser affect the dirt, grime, or debris in the coin's crevices?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
RogerKint - thanks. I am having Armen check into it.
Justacommeman - we began selectively disclosing this project to certain customers in advance to solict their comments and advice. We slabbed app. 2000 coins in Secure Plus holders prior to the launch.
RYK - Express Service is running app. 5 or 6 days. We measure this every week.
Coincollector - you are correct. In order to be eligible for the + you must send your coins into Secure Plus as a regrade. Reholders will only be reholdered in their existing grade. BTW - the same guarantee applies to Regrades sent into Secure Plus as the regular line, i.e., your coin will not downgrade.
ambro51 - we have no plans to replace the graders (human eye) with a machine. The huge benefit provided by Secure Plus is we will now know the grading history of any coin previously sent in. Secure Plus is not intended to provide the grade for the coin. It is to provide information to the Finalizer.
LostDutchman - we tested tens of thousands of coins. We've been at this for a very long time. This project was one of the best kept secrets in the industry.
First, thanks for answering all these crazy questions. I would like to know why the "+" is limited to coins grading above XF (as shown below I believe this should be an AG-3+ if submitted)?
<< <i>staircoins - we've done it both ways. we decided just to scan the obverse. >>
Interesting, and thanks for taking to time for some Q&A here. So if a coin doctor only messed with the reverse, the process wouldn't detect it? Or am I missing something?
I would like to know what programs are used on the laser to detect coin doctoring ??? It would be interesting to know, since I own several raw colorful Morgan dollars that I plan on submitting in the near future.
Is this service going to be offered as a free grading at the Platinum or Gold level Collector's Club or as a quarterly freebie??? April is right around the corner and a LOT of people would buy/renew for the grades. Thanks.
Big Crumbs Link
Mr Rebates Link
EBates Link
Chucknra@yahoo.com
I think the SecurePlus service will be a winner! Regarding the "+" grades, as you have said, astute dealers and collectors have recognized premium quality coins for years and "paid up" for that quality. So I agree it's time for objective third-party recognition of that premium quality. Bravo!
All that being said, there are a LOT of premium quality red and red-brown copper coins out there. For example, Lot #1134 from the Naftzger III sale, an 1852 cent graded by PCGS as MS65RD, which realized $28,750:
Versus, for example, Lot #1128 from the Naftzger III sale, another 1852 cent graded by PCGS as MS65RD, which realized $6,612.50:
Similarly, these two 1851 cents were both graded by PCGS as MS65RD in the Naftzger III sale, with the first (lot #1031) realizing $24,150, and the second (lot #1041) realizing $3,680:
My question is, now that the PCGS SecurePlus+ service is finally available here in 2010, does that mean that if copper collectors wish to use the service, must they submit their coins for "regrade," and in so doing terminate their current PCGS grading guarantees as to the red or red-brown color of their coins? Or has PCGS already thought of this and have worked out a program (perhaps a limited-time program, for a transitional period) for copper collectors under which they may submit coins already in PCGS holders for regrade while maintaining the guarantee?
1) Is a Secure Plus reholder in effect a re-grade evaluation for the possibility of receiving a "plus" designation?
2) What is the difference between a Secure Plus Reholder and a Secure Plus Regrade?
3) If I submit an old holder coin with the intention of receiving a "plus" designation, is there an option to leave it as is should it not make the cutoff?
Thank You,
Empty Nest Collection
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.
I have a couple of more.
What will PCGS's protocol be when a coin gets flagged as a stolen coin?
Like many other devices that are touted for their accuracy you always see something along the lines of this device is 99.99% accurate. Do the devices you are using and the system have a similar rating? If so would this be something your company is willing to share?
Lost Dutchman Rare Coins
Indianapolis, IN
ANA 3137206
PCGS Authorized Dealer
Thanks
Can you add Trueview service to a Secure Plus submission?
Thanks
Buffalo Nickel Short Set 1934-38 67% Complete
this is in regards to certfication "without" holdering:
0017]Moreover, coin owners not wanting their coins to be encapsulated in a plastic holder can have the means of having a professional grade applied to an unencapsulated coin, with a separate certificate of grade being provided, the coin and the certificate would be linked by the coin ID file to assure the right coin stays associated with the grade certificate.
Would such coins be allowed into the PCGS Registry as normal? Is a "cert. number" provided? Could such a coin in turn be submitted to NGC (sorry to use that word but ...) for encapsulation, and still retain full PCGS certification as well?
and I send it to you with cross at any grade -
(can you do scan through slab? it needs to be cracked out doesn't it?)
and you send it back because you saw it 4 years ago and it has been messed with
what can I do? or what will PCGS do to help me?
<< <i>1) Is a Secure Plus reholder in effect a re-grade evaluation for the possibility of receiving a "plus" designation? >>
No. Secure Plus reholder will only laser scan and reholder your coin at the same grade level.
<< <i>2) What is the difference between a Secure Plus Reholder and a Secure Plus Regrade? >>
The regrade will actually re-evaluate the grade on your coin and make it eligible for the + or even an upgrade.
<< <i>3) If I submit an old holder coin with the intention of receiving a "plus" designation, is there an option to leave it as is should it not make the cutoff? >>
No way. It's coming out of the holder and going into a new slab regardless.
There!
Empty Nest Collection
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
I had a quick look through the questions and don't think this has been asked:
My worry is that some coins might "turn" after being holdered and thus not be correctly identified by the scanner.
As we know the holders aren't 100% air tight and coins have been known to tone and develop spots after holdering.
For example if you scan a coin that has developed a little toning around the edges since being holdered and having been scanned, will the scanner not believe it to be a different coin if re-scanned?
many of my best PQ coins and Toned coins have True Views now.
Also if you regrade a PCGS them under Secure Plus and now decide it is not NT, what happens? ( not that I think I have any AT in PCGS holders, but I tried to cross 2 others in another TPG slab over this past year and they were not crossed because of questionable color. Some coin doctors are getting to good.
(also just edited to ask why PR 60 and PR 61 coins are excluded.)
Thanks PQ
<< <i>Did anyone consult a trademark attorney first? SecurePlus is a federally registered trademark for Financial Services - a similar class to Coin Grading Services. Is there a back up name for the service if PCGS is prevented from using someone else's trademark?
How about CostPlus? >>
How about "Obscure Plus" ?
Just joking Mr Willis. Please forgive my dry sense of humor.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
You mentioned in your previous post that MS60/61 graded coins were not eligible because they are pretty beat up and like lipstick to a pig. While this may be true for some coins, my PCGS-graded Gold Indian Head Half Eagle coins do not seem beat up (at least to me and the dealer where I bought them from). The incuse design of the coin has posed some challenge to most graders (even to some PCGS graders) that grading accuracy has been an issue with this particular coin.
My questions are:
(a) Would it be possible that the exclusion of MS60-61 graded coins be re-considered for particular coins (such as the Gold Indian Head Half and Quarter Eagles)?
(b) Has the laser technology used in SecurePlus worked well with the incused design?
I look forward to your response.
Cheers!
Nestor
<< <i>Hi Don
How long exactly have you been slabbing Secure Plus coins? Who was eligible to participate in having their coins go through the new process if the announcement was only made yesterday and the coins were slabbed earlier?
I apologize if this has been addressed prior but there are too many like threads to read........Can't get to them all
Thanks, MJ >>
I was wondering about that myself. Looks like some dealers/collectors could keep a secret?
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Can this technology help confirm varieties? And my follow up is..
If so, will PCGS use this to technology expand what varieties it is willing to designate on holders?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
merse
Since he doesn't seem to be answering right now, and I read some questions that are easily answered BY THE VIDEOS on the main PCGS.COM page, I wanted to just comment and suggest that people go there and watch HRH and Don talk about this new design/service.
Then, you may find your question already answered
If you don't at least view the video(s) first, you should hold on your questions, imho.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
peacockcoins
Ron
Edited to add: I am referring to Secure Plus
messydeck - there are a lot of possibilities that we will get to eventually. However, the system requires the coin to be out of a holder.
Proof - our initial load of + prices used this formula: the lesser of 20% of the spread between the base grade and the next grade up, or 50% of the base grade. We are already adjusting these prices (up).
PerryHall - we have not found anything that prevented the system from recognizing the coin.
Steve27 - we arbitrarily decided on XF45 - MS68. Perhaps that will be revisited in the future.
ziggy29 - think about it. If a coin grades higher than before the finalizer will be looking at it very closely. We can always scan both sides if we want to.
robkool - it's probably not a good idea for me to get too specific in how we use the lasers.
chucknra - our first request for a freebie!!! We'll take that into consideration.
cardinal - excellent question. It is not our intention to void a copper warranty if a coin that already qualifies is submitted for regrade under Secure Plus. We'll have to come up with a solution. We will. thanks for pointing that out. btw, I've already seen some really nice early copper that "plused".
renomedphys - reholder and regrade work exactly the same for Secure Plus as for our regular service. The only way to get a + is to send your coin in to Secure Plus as a Regrade. Just like the regular service, when you send a coin in for regrade you lose the old holder.
LostDutchman - we haven't worked out the protocal for assisting in the recovery of stolen coins. That shouldn't be too difficult. As for the accuracy rating. So far its been 100% but even if it was 99% we would more than achieve our goal.
earlyAunum - if you submit your PCGS coin as a Regrade under any service you are guaranteed that the grade will not go down. Under Secure Plus you could get a higher grade, a +, or the same grade you started with.
If a coin were stolen, would one small tick on a non distracting place allow the coin to go undetected by the software or does the software look for patterns and if X% match, then it's flagged?
<< <i>Thanks for all the responses.
If a coin were stolen, would one small tick on a non distracting place allow the coin to go undetected by the software or does the software look for patterns and if X% match, then it's flagged? >>
That's answered in the David Hall / Don Willis videos I referenced above, on the PCGS.COM site.
They did things to the coins and they were still recognized.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Mr. Willis, you must be tired of answering questions...but one BIG question I have;
At what point will the scanned image of the coin be used to determine the grade by comparision with other scanned images of the same date/type/grade of coin that is already recorded into the computers memory bank?
Or, will grading Forever be left up to the human eye, and the laser scanning application only be used for recording information purposes. >>
This is an excellent question.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)