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1868 large cent --- yes, 1868!

DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭
Copper collectors: Do you consider the pattern large cent of 1868 (Judd-610 in nickel, and Judd-611 in copper) to be a collectible member of the series? Or does your collection end with the last Braided Hair cent of the regular series (1857)?



Comments

  • dsessomdsessom Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Patterns are never considered part of a regular series.
    Best regards,
    Dwayne F. Sessom
    Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,736 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Large cents ended in 1857.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • savoyspecialsavoyspecial Posts: 7,310 ✭✭✭✭
    i agree with Tom and for the sake of consistency other series are collected in a similar manner

    (Ambro is putting together a run of Gold Dollars but i will wager that he does not consider Judd 67/Pollock 70 from 1836 to be the start of that series)

    www.brunkauctions.com

  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    They are cool and all, but not a member of the series. I have photo'd a J-610.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This coin is a fantasy item that (I hope) was made on whim. (In the 1860s the mint was known to make many items if they thought it would sell and make a profit for someone, which did not necessarily include the government.) The original idea was to create a copper ten cent piece. Somewhere along the line the mint personnel paired it with a large cent reverse, and you had this odd ball pattern.

    I would not view this pattern as anything that a large cent collector would view as a “requirement” for a complete large cent collection.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Patterns are never considered part of a regular series. >>



    But some --- I'm thinking of various transitional patterns here --- are popularly collected alongside their regular-issue brethren.

  • savoyspecialsavoyspecial Posts: 7,310 ✭✭✭✭
    Dentuck, you do have a point especially as it pertains to the Flying Eagle Cent and Indian Head Cent series (e.g. 1858/9 and 1863/4 patterns in particular)

    www.brunkauctions.com

  • atarianatarian Posts: 3,116
    Not to be a killjoy but I saw the auction but strikes me strange. $2.00 free shipping and in China. Free Shipping to the US . Im not up to date on what shipping costs are from china to US but I would think enough to make me wonder if its legit or a scam
    Founder of the NDCCA. *WAM Count : 025. *NDCCA Database Count : 2,610. *You suck 6/24/10. <3 In memory of Tiggar 5/21/1994 - 5/28/2010 <3
    image
  • DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Not to be a killjoy but I saw the auction >>



    What auction? If it's an eBay auction for an 1868 large cent (especially if the origin is China!), I'll lay favorable odds it's a fake.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Piece de Caprice...neat coin though

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, it may actually be the opposite.

    Some dime type collectors such as myself prize the J-647 which is the 10c pattern in which the obverse is the design of the pre 1857 large cent and as such is a unique dime design for type purposes.

    I am not aware of cent type collectors having the same view of the J-610 pattern since it is not a different design than other cent designs.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • atarianatarian Posts: 3,116
    Linky-roo

    That was the auction I had in mind. It is stamped COPY but wasnt sure this was the coin the post is referring too.
    Founder of the NDCCA. *WAM Count : 025. *NDCCA Database Count : 2,610. *You suck 6/24/10. <3 In memory of Tiggar 5/21/1994 - 5/28/2010 <3
    image
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,691 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A fantasy item ... probably created for a collector with "pull" at the mint in the 1860's.

    Just how should these 1860's era fantasy patterns be viewed?
    All glory is fleeting.
  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are one or two sellers in China/Hong Kong that do make the replicas and stamp them as such, but the vast majority do NOT stamp them as copy or replica.

    BTW here is my example of the 10 cent pattern in cupro-nickel:

    image

    One of my favourite pieces in my collection for many reasons - I wanted one since reading about them in a coin magazine when I was about 8-9 years old.
    Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,237 ✭✭✭✭✭
    no, its a pattern. still a nice one to have thou image
  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭✭
    Dennis, I think I can say for certain that they are not commonly included by collectors of large cents.

    About 2-3 years ago, we had one of those 1868 Large Cent patterns in stock. So -- at a show, I walked it over to a very prominent large cent specialist dealer, a gent who has helped build literally hundreds of large cent collections in the past few decades, and a good friend of ours.

    I showed him our coin (it was PCGS slabbed, but I don't remember the grade). He stared at it in amazement. He had never seen one before. He must have looked at it with a glass for 5 minutes. He said he knew nothing about it, but he wanted to buy it for his personal collection.

    Then -- I told him what it would cost him. That changed his mindimage

    He said he couldn't justify tying up his own funds for an item like that. But -- he was blown away by it.

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