Wisconsin Extra Leaf Quarters Have Good Company

HIGHLOWLEAVES · December 17, 2009 12:11AM

WI Quarter Varieties: Rock bottom prices on Ebay. No dealers/speculators will touch them !! Great for the tight money coin collector buyers, like me. But the WI coins have plenty of company. MN extra trees, Speared Bison nickels, Godless Dollars, 2009 DDO/DDR Cents, 2004P DDO Nickel, 2005 DDR OIV Nickels and the list goes on and on. Lower prices; fewer buyers. The 2008/7 ASE maybe an exception but their prices are softening. My crystal ball is hazy. It's about time for the USM to produce another award winning error/variety !! What a Christmas Present for a few!! Happy Holidays To All !!!

kranky · December 17, 2009 12:21AM

I don't own any of the varieties mentioned, but to me the Extra Leaf quarters are much more desirable than the others.

Much more dramatic than the extra trees or speared bison, or the 2004, 05, 09 doubled dies mentioned.
Godless dollars are just the absence of something that should have been on the edge. Not as interesting to me.
The 2008 Rev of 07 ASE doesn't look unusual.

Whether the Extra Leaf quarters will have staying power or not, I don't know. And I'm not bad-mouthing any of the above-mentioned coins. But the Extra Leaf just has more appeal to me - easily visible when compared to the normal coin, two different types, and the mystery of what really happened.

19Lyds · December 17, 2009 12:28AM

You suppose that this one will sell?

partagas · December 17, 2009 12:28AM

Is it just me. or has the internet and ebay killed the staying power of modern errors. Back in the day, you would have waited until it was announced in coin world etc. that you should look for a certain error. Then you search an search, but nothing. You go to a local shop and there it is. In the case, so you strike up a deal and you got a coin now. It is the needle in your haystack.

Now because of the internet and profiteers. You have a lot of people bringing every single coin out of the woodwork and dumping them as fast as they can. Pops get published and people realize, wow I don't have something that great nor rare (lincoln thumb coins) and turn to dump it. Thus falling prices, and our current economy isn't helping with this either.

Out of all those mentioned. I would rather have the extra leaves over any of the others.

Longacre · December 17, 2009 12:33AM

I think this extra leaf quarter thing was one of the best Well-Managed Promotions in modern times.

19Lyds · December 17, 2009 1:13AM

<< Is it just me. or has the internet and ebay killed the staying power of modern errors. Back in the day, you would have waited until it was announced in coin world etc. that you should look for a certain error. Then you search an search, but nothing. You go to a local shop and there it is. In the case, so you strike up a deal and you got a coin now. It is the needle in your haystack.

Now because of the internet and profiteers. You have a lot of people bringing every single coin out of the woodwork and dumping them as fast as they can. Pops get published and people realize, wow I don't have something that great nor rare (lincoln thumb coins) and turn to dump it. Thus falling prices, and our current economy isn't helping with this either.

Out of all those mentioned. I would rather have the extra leaves over any of the others. >>

I agree with you on all counts Sean but must add that in 50 years, these coins may have an upsurge in popularity and price.

This could very well be one of those "I wish I had bought them back then" times.

pf70collector · December 17, 2009 1:27AM

I have then both in NGC 66. No need to sell now. I'll wait 20 years and see what happens.

renman95 · December 17, 2009 1:41AM

In the Mint's effort to stop errors it seems more occurred. I think there's a glut of errors. And the prices reflect.

ctf_error_coins · December 17, 2009 1:50AM

I like the Speared Bison the best as estimated numbers is ONLY around 900 pieces.

That is 900 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll take the low mintage very cool error any day.

BTW I have never owned the leaf coins, but I have come close recently as the prices are dropping., maybe one day.

Speared Bison

2manycoins2fewfunds · December 17, 2009 1:58AM

For some of this stuff you need a Dinoscope to see it.

I'd put the MN and OIV DDRs in that catagory.

Also IMO the large number of variations(50+) of these 2 in particular just shows the working die hubbing machine needs to be replaced or workers instructed in its proper use.

taxbuster1040 · December 17, 2009 2:29AM

I believe this is the time to buy these kinds of coins, particularly the high and low leaf. I own several and the Speared Bison. Although there is not much interest now, probably due to the economy, the story around the Leaves and how they got there is a compelling one.... A real mystery. Give it 20 years, I think they will do well. When the young kids grow up and have some bucks, they will want one.

tahoe98 · December 17, 2009 4:47AM

.....this made me think of this

......and this

pitboss · December 17, 2009 4:53AM

I'll keep my Wisconsin's for my grandkids. I have 40 of them from MS63's up to MS67's. I do not want to give them away at today's prices. It was a fun ride collecting them. The same goes for the formative years pennies. They will be a desirable coin to own in the future long after I am gone.

dbldie55 · December 17, 2009 4:59AM

Where do we find these rock bottom prices?

jhdfla · December 17, 2009 5:01AM

<< I think this extra leaf quarter thing was one of the best Well-Managed Promotions in modern times. >>

I agree with you wholeheartedly!

dsessom · December 17, 2009 5:03AM

<< WI Quarter Varieties: No dealers/speculators will touch them !! >>

I have seen them on plenty of dealer websites, and they are commanding a pretty nice premium too.

HIGHLOWLEAVES · December 17, 2009 9:48AM

ErrorsOnCoins.... I too like the 2005 D Speared Bison Nickel as a neat die gouge error. About all of them were found in East Texas and Killeen, Tx. I was able to purchase 80+ raw examples back in 2005 and had many of them PCGS certified. I have only a very few left and frankly, I am glad that I don't have to sit on that many for the next 20 years in hopes that they will be worth something again. Ebay members did a rocket and crash number on those errors for sure. Ebay seems the only place to place those and WI Quarters, etc. Just don't let your pride about the good old days get in your way of parting with them. Prices are way off !!

Bochiman · December 18, 2009 3:19PM

Looking at ebay's sales (current and past), most are NGC and very few are PCGS (some ICG/raw).
Very few are actually "sold" and most are not bid on (high starting price) or high reserve.

GrumpyEd · December 18, 2009 3:47PM

With these sort of coins I think it's best to find em or buy em late in the game, let them cool of then pick up a bargain.

I also agree with this:

<< <> I agree with you wholeheartedly! >>

This was a textbook example. Many in the hands of a few dealers who promoted it well plus enough stragglers to fuel the hunt. It got press and attention to help it from the start. TPGs noted the on holders. They went off like rockets then dropped hard.

mysterycoinman · March 2, 2010 11:28AM

Does anyone know if the Wisconsin extra quarters have all been found? Any updates on whether pricing would help. Thanks collectors

pitboss · March 2, 2010 11:55AM

There is bound to be some more out there in circulation but I believe all of the uncirculated ones have been found. If you have them then hold them for now as prices are way too soft.

19Lyds · March 2, 2010 12:02PM

<< 

<< I think this extra leaf quarter thing was one of the best Well-Managed Promotions in modern times. >>

I agree with you wholeheartedly! >>

NEWSFLASH!

Everything having to do with Modern Collectible Coins is a "Well Managed Promotion" otherwise folks would not be aware of them nor would they feel the need to purchase them.

Compared to the 60's and 70's, today's "well managed promotion" is simply a mouse click away.

FullStepJeffs · March 2, 2010 1:44PM

I'd like to order a 2004P DDO in MS65 or MS66 or a speared bison in MS66 or MS67 please in a PCGS holder at rock bottom prices.

Please let me know when any of you have one of those two coins for sale at rock bottom prices.

I agree with you that some of your list has dropped in value over the last couple of years, but the significant grades IMHO have stayed strong.

By the way... just a thought... what would a raw speared bison be worth when PCGS MS65's sell for the mid $200's these days?

I also believe there are many series in the same boat, not just these coins. Look at the entire coin world... aren't many areas down from where they were a few years ago?

Just a thought...

Steve

dpoole · March 2, 2010 2:10PM

<< I'll keep my Wisconsin's for my grandkids. I have 40 of them from MS63's up to MS67's. I do not want to give them away at today's prices. It was a fun ride collecting them. The same goes for the formative years pennies. They will be a desirable coin to own in the future long after I am gone. >>

You have 67s? Wow. There're only 3 low leaves and 2 high leaves at PCGS, and those numbers have held steady since 2005!

pitboss · March 2, 2010 10:43PM

I only have one high leaf 67 and it was graded by ANACS. The last I heard was there is only a very few graded that high by ANACS also. NGC has a boatload of 67's and I would say that 99% of those are at least one grade too high. I would put my ANACS graded 67 up against any graded by anybody as a high quality coin.

The 67 graded formative years WDDR 001 and WDDR 002's are still the top graded errors . With all the Lincoln collectors out there , they will soon be a very desirable coin as they are so easy to see with the naked eye. We on the PCGS forum were lucky enough to be in on the forefront of collecting these coins and will benefit on this in the future (or at least our children will).

All this is speculation on my part but I am not alone in my feelings.

UtahCoin · March 2, 2010 10:56PM

<< I think this extra leaf quarter thing was one of the best Well-Managed Promotions in modern times. >>

Well said. Perhaps the clandestine operation was orchestrated by the folks that were responsible for "New Coke" some time back.

EagleEye · March 3, 2010 12:19AM

<>

I think it was the worst-managed promotions in history. Dealers around the country were excluded from getting in on the action, so now when a collector approaches them, they have no clue as to what they are worth, no clue where to get one and no clue where to sell one. They don't stock them. As such, people resort to eBay for pricing information, which means that when demand is low, every coin that gets sold for a bargain price becomes the new market floor. Conversely, as happened in late 2005, when there is excessive demand, the prices shoot up to unsustainable levels on eBay.

Confusion kills demand.

I think the WI quarters are in the company of the 1937-D 3-legged Buffalo, not the speared Bison and recent minor doubled dies. It has the same overall rarity and is a similar type of modified die variety. It is the key to the State Quarter series.

pitboss · March 3, 2010 1:17AM

I too think is is the key to the state quarter series. but as you say, not everyone agrees with us at this point.

Name me one other coin in the series that ranks with it.

The only other error of equal proportions is 2008/07 reverse in American eagle series.

They are both the only errors in the series.

stinkinlincoln · March 3, 2010 1:33AM

Another variety or whatever you want to call it I dont care for. Too many of them out there, and too pricey for the numbers.

pitboss · March 3, 2010 1:55AM

Can you name me one other coin that ranks with it?

HIGHLOWLEAVES · March 3, 2010 2:05AM

The WI Extra Leaf Quarters are varieties of a very popular coin series. The Statehood quarter series is too young to have many solid, cash paying collectors. Once the America the Beautiful Parks quarters series bombs, people may take a greater interest in the State quarters and The Extra Leaf coins. I often wonder what the prices of the WI coins may have been if Ebay were not here back in 2004 to date. Eagle Eye and a few other Tucson dealers introduced the coins to the numismatic world from the get-go and were asking reasonable prices. The higher Ebay prices were manipulated by greedy traders who never cared to retain the scarce coins for their collections and with the approaching severe resession that began in 2007, the lower WI prices have arrived. The WI quarters are easy to forget about and are only worth buying if you have a multi year window to hold them. They are a proven modern variety that even some error coin experts cannot totally discount, though they certainly try. The PCGS/NGC pops tell the truth... as of this week, total Highs are 7,036 and Lows are 9,575. Many of those coins are repeat submissions !! INHO, "WHEN not "IF" the WI come back into the collectors eyes, their potential is powerful. True, don't expect that demand for many years. By then, maybe an astute collector/dealer may have truly researched the WI quarter event back in November, 2004 with the help of the Denver authorities. I understand that lbs. of 2004 D WI quarters were destroyed by the Mint and were never released to the public.

pitboss · March 3, 2010 2:18AM

Good points well taken Mark.

cladking · March 3, 2010 3:00AM

<< The WI Extra Leaf Quarters are varieties of a very popular coin series. The Statehood quarter series is too young to have many solid, cash paying collectors. Once the America the Beautiful Parks quarters series bombs, people may take a greater interest in the State quarters and The Extra Leaf coins. I often wonder what the prices of the WI coins may have been if Ebay were not here back in 2004 to date. Eagle Eye and a few other Tucson dealers introduced the coins to the numismatic world from the get-go and were asking reasonable prices. The higher Ebay prices were manipulated by greedy traders who never cared to retain the scarce coins for their collections and with the approaching severe resession that began in 2007, the lower WI prices have arrived. The WI quarters are easy to forget about and are only worth buying if you have a multi year window to hold them. They are a proven modern variety that even some error coin experts cannot totally discount, though they certainly try. The PCGS/NGC pops tell the truth... as of this week, total Highs are 7,036 and Lows are 9,575. Many of those coins are repeat submissions !! INHO, "WHEN not "IF" the WI come back into the collectors eyes, their potential is powerful. True, don't expect that demand for many years. By then, maybe an astute collector/dealer may have truly researched the WI quarter event back in November, 2004 with the help of the Denver authorities. I understand that lbs. of 2004 D WI quarters were destroyed by the Mint and were never released to the public. >>

I don't disagree but do believe it would be easy to underestimate the potential
and importance of these coins. These aren't mere "varieties". These are really
type coins. It's just like one state got three coins in its honor; one designed and
executed officially and two which were struck at a single mint but unofficial. They
may be unofficial yet they still are current legal tender and a few are actually in
circulation. (very few since these were efficiently intercepted)

One would think that with tens of millions of states coin collectors that there should
be sufficient demand develop in Wisconsin alone to push the price of these far high-
er as these "newbies" become more advanced. At the beginning of this program I
used to laugh at old timers who suggested that when dealers were approached for
the latest issue they should be directed to "real coins" like New Jersey colonials.
New collectors aren't going to pay more than face for a coin in most cases. It takes
time to learn that many desirable coins have to be purchased and some of these can
be quite expensive. You aren't going to find colonials in pocket change and there's
enough demand that the prices are high for the the small supply.

It's the same thing with the WI "types". Many of the more casual states collectors
don't know they exist and most of the rest aren't prepared to spend much more than
the price of a proof set for one.

This will not always be true. The day will come that many collectors feel their sets
aren't complete without these. Many of these collectors are children now and when
they return they'll have good paying jobs. Many will move on to understand that they
probably won't find these in pocket change.

It's been said that time don't fly, it bounds and leaps. A 14 year old boy looking for
the new Delaware quarter in 1999 might be finishing his internship next year or al-
ready making good money in his chosen profession. Even today he might find his old
collection that he quit when he found girls and decide to finish it.

History has a way of repeating over and over again. We recognize this process when
it involves war or new technology but have a penchant for overlooking the mundane.
It is the "mundane" that people collect. We find it exciting and a tie to simpler times
like 2004.

stinkinlincoln · March 3, 2010 3:31AM

<<

I don't disagree but do believe it would be easy to underestimate the potential
and importance of these coins. These aren't mere "varieties". These are really
type coins. It's just like one state got three coins in its honor; one designed and
executed officially and two which were struck at a single mint but unofficial. They
may be unofficial yet they still are current legal tender and a few are actually in
circulation. (very few since these were efficiently intercepted)

One would think that with tens of millions of states coin collectors that there should
be sufficient demand develop in Wisconsin alone to push the price of these far high-
er as these "newbies" become more advanced. At the beginning of this program I
used to laugh at old timers who suggested that when dealers were approached for
the latest issue they should be directed to "real coins" like New Jersey colonials.
New collectors aren't going to pay more than face for a coin in most cases. It takes
time to learn that many desirable coins have to be purchased and some of these can
be quite expensive. You aren't going to find colonials in pocket change and there's
enough demand that the prices are high for the the small supply.

It's the same thing with the WI "types". Many of the more casual states collectors
don't know they exist and most of the rest aren't prepared to spend much more than
the price of a proof set for one.

This will not always be true. The day will come that many collectors feel their sets
aren't complete without these. Many of these collectors are children now and when
they return they'll have good paying jobs. Many will move on to understand that they
probably won't find these in pocket change.

It's been said that time don't fly, it bounds and leaps. A 14 year old boy looking for
the new Delaware quarter in 1999 might be finishing his internship next year or al-
ready making good money in his chosen profession. Even today he might find his old
collection that he quit when he found girls and decide to finish it.

History has a way of repeating over and over again. We recognize this process when
it involves war or new technology but have a penchant for overlooking the mundane.
It is the "mundane" that people collect. We find it exciting and a tie to simpler times
like 2004. >>

Great post!

Would you put these in the same league as say the 22 no D Lincolns?

cladking · March 3, 2010 3:48AM

<< 

Would you put these in the same league as say the 22 no D Lincolns? >>

Thanks.

I think they're far more important than the '22 Lincoln. The Lincoln wouldn't even
be identifiable if the Philly mint had struck cents that year. It was an overpolished
die which was quite common in those days. The Wi quarters were intentionally made
to "compete" with the official version. Perhaps its designer was partly motivated by
a dislike for the official design. One can certainly understand why.

pitboss · March 3, 2010 6:22AM

There could be more out there but not many as these have been pretty heavily searched and if the Denver mint destroyed a bunch of these then we could be in the 20-25,000 range. Do you realize the millions of collectors out there that are going to want these.

I will hold on to mine, thank you.

Robb · March 3, 2010 6:29AM

<< There could be more out there but not many as these have been pretty heavily searched and if the Denver mint destroyed a bunch of these then we could be in the 20-25,000 range. Do you realize the millions of collectors out there that are going to want these.

I will hold on to mine, thank you. >>

You say that as if they're new and exciting. These have been out long enough now that supply vs. demand is relatively even.

pitboss · March 3, 2010 6:35AM

At the present time this is true but what is it going to be 15 or 20 years down the road, that is the question?

Robb · March 3, 2010 6:42AM

If there is to be a significant jump in price down the road, I think it will boil down to whether or not there's a hole for them in the Dansco, Whitman, etc.

HIGHLOWLEAVES · March 3, 2010 7:19AM

Robb, you are right on the money !! The WI quarters must find their way into a deluxe state quarter album before they have any serious run up. Back in August 2007 at the Milwaukee, WI ANA show, I gave Mary Counts with Whitman Publishing a copy of that months ANA pulication which featured an article by Chris Pilliod and Rick Snow that explained w/o any doubt how the High and Low leaves were intentional made. Whitman management knows of the coins. One of their concerns was whether there were enough discovered to warrant a place in their album. I spoke to Steve with Dansco in CA years ago. He said that at the time, he had no interest in redoing his statehood quarter albums to accomadate the two scarce coins. Believe me. things were put into place many years ago. The future may hold the answer. Best to all !! Mark.

19Lyds · March 3, 2010 9:35AM

The above figures are only PCGS and do not include raw figures.

Judging from this, the Ex leaf coins are not all that common and its only a question of time before collectors start "appreciating" the variety as was done with the 1937-D 3 Legged Buffalo.

There is a generation or two of collectors around today that simply have a judgemental opinion toward the coins which no amount of facts or figures will eliminate. That opinion is based upon current day observations over price wars and availability based upon online venue's and high speed communication which simply did not exist for certain other "revered" varieties.

The day will come when folks actually "want" these coins and when that day arrives, the prices will reflect their true collectibility.

<< If there is to be a significant jump in price down the road, I think it will boil down to whether or not there's a hole for them in the Dansco, Whitman, etc. >>

This, IMO, is another popularly accepted "opinion" as the Lincoln Cent Dansco sitting my bookshelf at this very moment was purchased within the past four years and does not have a slot for the 55/55.

The reality is that these coins will not receive the respect they truely deserve until folks start valuing them as collectibles. That simply will not occur with this current generation of collectors and I don't have a problem with that because as with anything we see today, it's all happened before and will all happen again because thats the way the hobby works.

edited out stinkinlincoln references since he was referring to the 08/07 SAE!

nankraut · March 3, 2010 10:00AM

<< I think this extra leaf quarter thing was one of the best Well-Managed Promotions in modern times. >>

BuffaloIronTail · March 3, 2010 12:23PM

I didn't jump at the WI quarters like some did. One reason is that I do not collect the series feverishly.
The do have a "mysticism" to them, hence they will eventually catch on.

I'll tell you this.........no expertise, no analization, no hype or dis-hype.............

We really are not the "Gods" that end these speculations. If you truly like the coins.....BUY THEM!.
This is after all a "hobby", tailored to what you personally like or dislike.

But the "Gods" I refer to are those that make the coin folders. If there is a space in them for these coins, their abscence
will drive you crazy because of the empty spot.

You WILL have to buy them or forever look at that emptiness in your book.

Time will tell. Right about now, I'm getting real sick of looking at that "hole" for the 22 no D lincoln in my Dansco......

Pete

EagleEye · March 3, 2010 12:44PM

I posted these earlier in past threads. They will help you understand the history of these coins.

How the WI extra leaf quarters were made

Early values of WI extra leaf quarters

HIGHLOWLEAVES · March 6, 2010 12:14AM

Rick, thank you for all work in letting collectors understand the origin of these varieties and the coin's early sales history. Your Utube presentations are very educational. Maybe as the state quarters series matures and more WI Highs and Lows reach the marketplace at today's deflated prices and more collectors view your Utube programs, there maybe a greater appreciation for these coins. Now the coins are listed on CCE and listed in the Dealer Greysheet each month.

pitboss · March 6, 2010 5:46AM

All I can say to anyone is, if you can afford it ,todays prices can not be beat for these coins and you will be glad you invested in them.

moonshine · March 6, 2010 6:00PM

FullStepJeffs - Do you know the population of the 2005-D MS67 Bison nickels -- Speared -- and/or Non Speared? (or anyone else who has access to that info atm.) Just curious as he mentioned that grade ... I think the 67 grade in the Bison used to be quite rare, especially in speared - but haven't seen the population number in awhile.

What are the high/low leafs going for these days? Which one is more desirable -- I forgot.

pf70collector · March 6, 2010 11:53PM

PCGS 84159 2005-D 5C Speared Bison MS 1 9 71 353 186 19 1 640 The one is the 67

mysterycoinman · March 20, 2010 1:49PM

Say 19Lyds,

I do believe your little spreadsheet is a bit off for true PCGS comparisons. You actually forgot split the high and lows apart since these really separate varieties/types.
So now lets go over this again and compare Apples to Apples your PCGS totals again vs. all others you listed.

Extra Leaf High 2,752
Extra Leaf Low 3,853

I would take note that the Extra Leaf high is still less than the 55/55 Lincoln and the Extra Leaf Low is much much less than the 3-Leg Buff.
Keep in mind these are not from 1955, 1937 or 1909 either ... but 2004! Mind-bloggling pop calculations from a rocket scientist point of view!

19Lyds · March 20, 2010 2:22PM

I considered that but decided to keep them lumped together since if you consider one, you have to consider the other as they are both considered "Extra Leaves". No doubt, one is a little scarcer than the other but you gotta wonder why?

Presumably, both die's were in a single press which means they both produced the same amount of quarters? Yet more have been graded for the Hi's than Lo's.

Wisconsin Extra Leaf Quarters Have Good Company

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