Grading (particularly, some thoughts on EF)

kurtdog · March 2, 2010 11:38PM

Do you remember when the highest circulated grade was EF? That was back in the days of Unc. Today, AU is EF, and EF is high VF. Is that how the rest of you conceive of it? I ask, because, while the checkpoints relative to making the various grades remain he same, I'm definitely a lot looser, these days, on what I call EF. Does that make any sense?

UncleJoe · March 2, 2010 11:42PM

Yes. I agree with you. There was AU but that was used for an MS coin that had a rub or a wear mark (singular). Today "AU" coins actually show wear. When I started collecting anything that showed wear was EF (or XF) at best.

Joe.

Edit: Typo

kurtdog · March 3, 2010 12:14AM

I've had to upgrade the grade on many an old 2X2, Joe, and, sounds like you've "been there," too. Actually, the introduction into the mainstream of AU as the top uncirculated grade pushed everything down, if only, a notch, as I see it. Gotta scoot for now, McDonald's is about to stop breakfast...

RTS · March 3, 2010 12:22AM

PCGS says EF but really are VF...

ambro51 · March 3, 2010 12:27AM

Id say a circulated coin with great details and no luster is an EF. that same coin, with the same details and nearly the same wear...if there is luster, becomes an AU

garrynot · March 3, 2010 12:39AM

I thionk that in some cases, EF coins are more "eye appealing" than AU coins. Some AU coins have some uneven, spotty lustre that detracts from its appearance. Other AU coins might have a "shiny" appearance from rub that hides or masks detail, where rougher texture of an EF coin will highlight the devices

PerryHall · March 3, 2010 12:40AM

I remember when MS70 was a theoretical grade that represented a perfect coin that doesn't exist in the real world.

RedTiger · March 3, 2010 3:35AM

The old Redbooks had only few grade columns.

I have a Redbook from 1975 that has six: G VG F VF EF Unc.

The older ones have fewer.

As for grade inflation, a modest amount of grade inflation is a natural outcome of the TPG business model.

JJM · March 3, 2010 5:32AM

<< <i>Id say a circulated coin with great details and no luster is an EF. that same coin, with the same details and nearly the same wear...if there is luster, becomes an AU >>

this would be my wag as well

HoledandCreative · March 3, 2010 12:22PM

I'd say about everything is a full grade off. A shift of the scale. Lately, many of the 65s I see look like 63s of a few years ago. Just my opinion.

savoyspecial · March 3, 2010 12:31PM

i think that is why there is so much respect for the EAC scale of grading as well as the British scale.......an English gEF (good, EF) is our AU all day long

pursuitofliberty · March 3, 2010 12:40PM

I don't remember it, because I didn't start collecting until 1987. However ...

I have seen the shift. In some ares it still seems to be shifting slightly.

Coins I used to call (and buy/sell as) Choice EF get graded as AU53 or better, and coins I called EF are sometimes
AU50's now. Quite a few of the better Choice AU coins I picked up between 1989 and 1994/5 are in 62 and 63 holders
today. I still own quite a few of those raw, so I suspect I have even more 62/3's than I think.

I had about 16/17 ?? better VF Indians (VF and Choice VF by the percieved standard of the day) that I purchased in the
1991/2/3 time frame which I sold in ??? 2001. IIRC all but four graded EF40 ... a VF35, two EF45's, and yes, an AU50. I still
have a few of those too which I have since understood to be marketable (and slabbable) as EF or better.

I also remember many NGC coins commanding more attention and therefore a higher premium than PCGS ...

My how things have changed!

kurtdog · March 3, 2010 7:16PM

HoledandCreative, that's a good way to put it, a "shift." Pursuitofliberty, even though you weren't "there," like I was, back in the '60s, learning off that edition of the Redbook, the fact that you don't need to have had that "experience" (if I may) to discern that "shift" is revealing, in a way, in and of itself. It's there.

Good insights, all the way around, gang. Some of this I'd thought of, some of it I hadn't...

MidLifeCrisis · March 3, 2010 9:43PM

This is why the grade of a coin really only provides a general expectation (a range) of what the coin should look like.

The real "grade" of a coin is determined by how much you are willing to pay for it...e.g., "I grade that coin at $300." If you agree, you pay the asking price.

MidLifeCrisis · March 4, 2010 9:11AM

Hard to believe my post above did not get any responses...

ChangeInHistory · March 4, 2010 9:36AM

<< <i>This is why the grade of a coin really only provides a general expectation (a range) of what the coin should look like.

The real "grade" of a coin is determined by how much you are willing to pay for it...e.g., "I grade that coin at $300." If you agree, you pay the asking price. >>

There's more truth to that than many collectors realize.

Fairlaneman · March 4, 2010 9:51AM

<< <i>This is why the grade of a coin really only provides a general expectation (a range) of what the coin should look like.

The real "grade" of a coin is determined by how much you are willing to pay for it...e.g., "I grade that coin at $300." If you agree, you pay the asking price. >>

A couple of dealers I know put no grades on their coins at all. The coin has a price and as you said "You Agree" or "You Walk". Basically I like the way they sell their coins.

Ken

Grading (particularly, some thoughts on EF)

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