ICG Crossovers to PCGS

Zubie · February 25, 2010 3:40PM

I have never bought a coin in an ICG, was wondering if a gold eagle MS70 would still grade a PCGS MS70. I'm thinking probably an MS69???
Anyone ever cross ICGs over to PCGS?

Thanks

stinkinlincoln · February 25, 2010 3:43PM

Look at closed sales on different sites of similar coins in the holders mentioned... That should answer your question.... But, Ill save ya some time. Maybe, some of their stuff is fairly graded, and some of their stuff, well, I dont have anything good to say, and according to the new rules I have to say nice things only.

But, if youre buying gold for gold, and not a collection, why bother with all the plastic...

NewRose · February 25, 2010 3:44PM

With moderns, you could crack it out, and send it to ICG again and it might get a MS69. They are very unpredictable and the difference between a 69 and a 70 is so small, I can't see, lots of people can't.
I don't know if there is much of a point in crossing a modern coin like that, but if it is what you want to do, I'd say it is a complete toss up, if it does get a 69 or a 70. I personally, wouldn't waste the money to do so.

EDIT: Wanted to add, I have never crossed a coin to PCGS from ICG, but I have seen instances where people have. One of my friends crossed some bust halves, the one I can remember was a ICG AU55 coming back at PCGS AU50.
ICG has some coins graded right, and some graded a little high, they are still a grading service I would trust most of the time, but you need to know how to grade your own coin...but when it comes to modern coins, if you want the coin in a PCGS holder, just buy it in a PCGS holder.

SilverEagles92 · February 25, 2010 3:45PM

Don't pay a PCGS MS70 premium for an ICG MS70 coin.

robkool · February 25, 2010 4:00PM

The same could go for anacs/ngc MS70/PF70 coins...

Fletcher · February 25, 2010 4:04PM

I bought it as ICG MS61 ... it is now PCGS AU58 (the correct grade).

Unknown · February 25, 2010 4:05PM

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llafoe · February 25, 2010 5:08PM

<< <i>The same could go for anacs/ngc MS70/PF70 coins... >>

I still don't see why anyone would slab a modern coin in an IGC/ANACS/NGC slab when the coin is going to bring substantially less in the holder than in a PCGS holder. If a coin is a true MS70/PR70 why wouldn't a collector and especially a dealer use PCGS? NGCs registry allows you to submit PCGS coins... really, what would one's motivation be to use any other TPG for modern coins than PCGS? This isn't a koolaid question... it's a question of common sense and logic.

EDITED: Even if I hated PCGS (which I don't) why would I, as a collector or dealer, chose to place a modern coin in a slab other than PCGS. If I loved NGC (I do like their slabs), why would I take a true MS70/PR70 coin in my collection or for resale and slab it by another TPG to receive only 25%, 35%, 50% of the price I'd get in lieu of a PCGS slab? If I were a dealer, I'd be foolish... If I were a collector, at some point I will probably need to sell that coin... and I'd either have to submit it for crack out or sell it for less than a comparable PCGS slab.

ocon4008 · February 25, 2010 5:24PM

I have bought several ICG holdered coins; I drop the grade 10 to 20 points and pay greysheet bid. Some have crossed to PCGS; some haven't. The best one was an ICG VF 35 1893-S Morgan that crossed to PCGS VF 30. The ones that cross, cross at a lower grade.

enzet · February 25, 2010 6:23PM

<< <i>I have never bought a coin in an ICG, was wondering if a gold eagle MS70 would still grade a PCGS MS70. I'm thinking probably an MS69???
Anyone ever cross ICGs over to PCGS?

Thanks >>

If you submit an ICG MS70 to PCGS for crossover service, you cannot specify a minimum grade of MS70 in your submission. It would have to be a grade lower (MS69).

Just yesterday, I got the result of my crossover submission. My 1912-S Gold Indian Head $5 ICG AU58 has successfully crossed to PCGS AU55. I consider this an outstanding result.

Regards,

Nestor

Batman23 · February 25, 2010 6:43PM

I have crossed one ICG coin to PCGS. It crossed straight across at AU58.

That said, I have read plenty of threads here where you should expect a lower grade on the cross over.

johnny9434 · February 25, 2010 7:57PM

cool fugio flecher. i like the looks of that

chucknra · February 25, 2010 9:40PM

As everyone always says.....Buy the coin and not the holder. Almost all TPG MS-70s will not cross. Even if you got them to cross at 69 and then submitted for an upgrade, I highly doubt that would happen. Good luck!

jmski52 · February 25, 2010 9:57PM

I can't comment on the comparisons in grades between PCGS and ICG, but the Proof 2001 AGEs that I have in PR-69 ICG slabs are very nice, and one thing I especially like is that they have not a single trace of toning, unlike some of the PCGS-slabbed MS-70 AGEs that I own, and the MS-69 1989 AGE that was stable for 18 years until PCGS slabbed it.

Now it's got an uneven, gaudy orange-yellow stain all over it.

It's NOT simply a case of "stuff happens". None of my raw AGEs in storage have any toning. From a chemical standpoint, there is a reaction occuring that only occurs under specific conditions, and those conditions are present inside the PCGS slabs. No editorializing here, just the facts.

llafoe · February 25, 2010 10:16PM

There's nothing wrong with the PCGS slabs, Ricko designed them so all his coins would be NT.

Actually, PCGS wanted to maximize your profit when you sold your coins, so they designed a slab to tone for perfect eye appeal... Just add the bean and you'll quadriple your investment upon resale.

HighRelief · February 26, 2010 2:01AM

I crossed my ICG 1908-D No Motto MS63 Saint 7 years ago and it came back from PCGS MS63. Trying to cross MS70 material for a PCGS slab from the other TPGC's is a waste of money and time IMHO.

PonyExpress8 · February 26, 2010 2:10AM

I am 4 out of 5, 3 at the same grade, 1 upgraded, and one that wouldn't cross. All were in the pre ANACS-ICG swap of what 3 years ago now.

DennisH · February 26, 2010 2:22AM

PCGS coins graded 70, no matter what the series, cost more than everyone else's coins graded 70 for a simple reason: Everyone grades differently and PCGS is the toughest. But people who are looking for bargains just can't resist the lure. In my opinion they have about the same chance of coming out ahead as they do with a lottery ticket.

Gemineye · February 26, 2010 2:37AM

I've had my ICG PR 70 Sacagaweas cross down to PR 69..a couple of ICG ms67 Sacs cross to PCGS ms67 and a ICG 67 downgrade to a 66..

lkeigwin · February 26, 2010 2:57AM

PCGS won't accept a request to cross MS70. So you'd have to send it in raw or cite a minimum acceptable grade below 70.

I have crossed several ICG coins. None has BB'd. At least one upgraded. FWIW (not much).

If you want a PCGS MS70 or MS69 best to buy one already in the slab.
Lance.

Zubie · February 26, 2010 5:32AM

Thanks for all the responses. I definitely won't pay PCGS MS70 price for a ICG MS70. I guess I'd go up to a PCGSMS69 price. If I feel its a good deal and once I see the coin in hand, I guess I could break it out and send it in to PCGS. I would be happy with a PCGS MS69...or...just keep it in the ICG MS70 slab?
Thanks again, like I said, never dealt with ICG or crossovers, so that was all good info! Tim

mozin · February 26, 2010 6:42AM

Some of the ICG coins, graded when ICG started operations, will cross straight over to PCGS. Somewhere along the line, ICG managed to slip on through a lot of coins with problems, problems that PCGS will not allow for grading. Too bad, the company was doing so well...

OPA · February 26, 2010 7:25AM

<< <i>Some of the ICG coins, graded when ICG started operations, will cross straight over to PCGS. Somewhere along the line, ICG managed to slip on through a lot of coins with problems, problems that PCGS will not allow for grading. Too bad, the company was doing so well... >>

I would agree with that statement for Morgan & Peace dollars from my own personal experience. (about a 75% cross over success for coins that were encapsulated by ICG when they first started their business in the late 90's)

Cameonut · February 26, 2010 7:31AM

I have never had an ICG modern proof cross to the same grade at PCGS. Normally a one point reduction, sometimes two points.

So take the advice from previous posters - do not pay strong money for an ICG coin, expecting it to cross at the same grade at PCGS.

badger · February 26, 2010 7:33AM

For proofs, I would not buy ICG sight-unseen without a steep discount to assume a two grade and one cameo step drop. Meaning, DCAM => Cam and Cam=> no Cam. If you buy using these assumptions you may get luck with the coin.

Dave

Cameonut · February 26, 2010 7:35AM

<< <i>For proofs, I would not buy ICG sight-unseen without a steep discount to assume a two grade and one cameo step drop. Meaning, DCAM => Cam and Cam=> no Cam. If you buy using these assumptions you may get luck with the coin.

Dave >>

Bingo! Exactly my experience.

NotSure · February 26, 2010 10:24AM

I submitted an ICG 1878 MS63PL Morgan...our host crossed it at the same grade with PL designation...but I think the stars were aligned, had a rabbits foot in my hand filling out the submission, and a horseshoe fell out of my pocket, and.....

Seriously, it was all there for the grade/designation. I would never try to make a habit of it, but sometimes you get lucky.

cmerlo1 · February 26, 2010 12:31PM

MS70 money = PCGS. No exceptions.

ICG Crossovers to PCGS

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