Barber COPIED! (the relationship between US and foreign coin designs)
Hyperion
Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭
It always shocks me when I see so many darkside designs seemingly mimic'd on "classic" US coinage 
Im sure the more historically bent can debate the origin of style threads through history, how one thing influences the other, but when I first received this 5 franc coin I thought... everything old was new again, a long time ago!
(rev of 5 franc, for the record)
In 1887, Mint Director James P. Kimball included a statement in his annual report to the United States Congress requesting a coinage redesign. He proposed a process whereby distinguished artists would be invited to participate in the design process, and, in 1890, the United States Department of the Treasury asked ten eminent American artists to submit design proposals for minor silver coinage. However, this plan proved unworkable when the artists made financial demands that the Treasury was unwilling to meet. The next effort was a contest open to the public, but none of the designs submitted in this manner were satisfactory to the Mint. Ultimately, it fell to Charles Barber to create new designs for silver coinage. He did so, and the designs were first placed into production in 1892.
Obviously, 1849 PreDates 1887
Im sure the more historically bent can debate the origin of style threads through history, how one thing influences the other, but when I first received this 5 franc coin I thought... everything old was new again, a long time ago!
(rev of 5 franc, for the record)
In 1887, Mint Director James P. Kimball included a statement in his annual report to the United States Congress requesting a coinage redesign. He proposed a process whereby distinguished artists would be invited to participate in the design process, and, in 1890, the United States Department of the Treasury asked ten eminent American artists to submit design proposals for minor silver coinage. However, this plan proved unworkable when the artists made financial demands that the Treasury was unwilling to meet. The next effort was a contest open to the public, but none of the designs submitted in this manner were satisfactory to the Mint. Ultimately, it fell to Charles Barber to create new designs for silver coinage. He did so, and the designs were first placed into production in 1892.
Obviously, 1849 PreDates 1887
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Comments
Interesting!
Second, Barber simply chose the Marianne, a national emblem of France, as his allegorical Liberty. One could argue that Weinman did the same with the Mercury dime.
<< <i>First, good thread.
Second, Barber simply chose the Marianne, a national emblem of France, as his allegorical Liberty. One could argue that Weinman did the same with the Mercury dime. >>
I was thinking of that driving into work
PS: The French style was pervasive in the late 19th century.
The British had much better designs during the period but I think we intentionally stayed away from their designs because people felt the outgoing Seated Liberty was too much like Britannia.
Too bad though, except for the coinage designs of 1916, the Seated Liberty is probably our most beautiful design.
<< <i>
<< <i>First, good thread.
Second, Barber simply chose the Marianne, a national emblem of France, as his allegorical Liberty. One could argue that Weinman did the same with the Mercury dime. >>
I was thinking of that driving into work
Definitely not American. The use of the Phrygian cap as a symbol of freedom dates back to the later days of the Roman Republic.
Brutus Ides of March Denarius. 43-42 BC
Though again, it was the French that popularized its use around 1790. And most of those representations likely owe a little something to Chinard's La République (1794):
Edited: typo
But NO one knows for sure..
the same idea can occure at the same tiem to more than one person
Or maybe it was copied and changed just enough
This one reminded me of the half disme when I first saw it -
thanks pheh!!!
ANYTHING WOULD BE BETTER THAN THIS CRAP THE U S MINT IS PUTTING OUT !!!!!!!!
It always shocks me when I see so many darkside designs seemingly mimic'd on "classic" US coinage
Im sure the more historically bent can debate the origin of style threads through history, how one thing influences the other, but when I first received this 5 franc coin I thought... everything old was new again, a long time ago!
In 1887, Mint Director James P. Kimball included a statement in his annual report to the United States Congress requesting a coinage redesign. He proposed a process whereby distinguished artists would be invited to participate in the design process, and, in 1890, the United States Department of the Treasury asked ten eminent American artists to submit design proposals for minor silver coinage. However, this plan proved unworkable when the artists made financial demands that the Treasury was unwilling to meet. The next effort was a contest open to the public, but none of the designs submitted in this manner were satisfactory to the Mint. Ultimately, it fell to Charles Barber to create new designs for silver coinage. He did so, and the designs were first placed into production in 1892.
Obviously, 1849 PreDates 1887
Barber was instructed by Mint Director Edward O. Leech in June 1891 to use the current French artwork
as his model when designing the new silver coins.
Denga
But NO one knows for sure..
the same idea can occure at the same tiem to more than one person
Or maybe it was copied and changed just enough
Actually if you line them both up and use transparency on Photoshop I think there is too match of a match to be a coincidence.
Disregarding the hair/cap the neck is slightly wider/slender but the features are almost a perfect match:
Ken
The British Trade Dollar and the reverse of the Florin under the reign of Edward VII
If great design and artist merit is a priority in terms of what you collect- coins from all over the world should be considered
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.