Real first strike...

stinkinlincoln · February 23, 2010 2:54PM

Couldnt this be defined a first strike?

Coins get that designation now due to certain ship dates... With coins like the one linked, isnt this due to a newer or freshly polished die?

If so, couldnt coins like these be more honestly and rightfully called first strikes?

Placid · February 23, 2010 3:41PM

With older coins it is possible to judge somewhat due to the apperance of die cracks and other flaws that show up on the coins and lower amount of coins that could be struck from a die before failure. With modern coins and mintage amounts from a single die it would be much harder to tell.

I wonder if this one was struck before or after the one you linked?

stinkinlincoln · February 23, 2010 3:48PM

Very interesting thoughts. And that coin posted is nice, but Im guessing Heritage archives? Has anyone tried studying older coins to find a coin emission sequence or something along those lines with some scarce or rare issue?

seemyauction · February 23, 2010 6:56PM

For Capped Bust Half Dollars there are.

ricko · February 23, 2010 9:15PM

Unless you were there at the minting, or an unimpeachable source so documented the coin, there is no definitive way to identify a true first strike. The 'ship date' method is used by TPG's. Cheers, RickO

BAJJERFAN · February 23, 2010 9:32PM

First Strike is merely a marketing ploy and as long as folks understand what it is, I have no issues with that.

DeepCoin · February 23, 2010 10:10PM

The first strike designation for modern coins is often so bogus as to be borderline deceptive. For example, the first strike platinum fractionals with very small mintages were ALL struck at the same time. All coins were struck together and the one you got (or get) is just random luck as they were then shipped to the fulfillment center with no mechanism tracking order of strike. The last one struck could easily have been the first one out the door.

It is all marketing and hype with zero substance. Anyone drinking the cool aid that these coins are better than the others one is delusional. A better designation would be first delivered.

Gemineye · February 23, 2010 10:29PM

...here we go again folks....!!!!...We need a Catholic Priest..a Jewish Rabi and Protestant Minister and others swearing to the order of the striking order of the coins from the dies to verify their authenticity.Any boxed shipping date or hold for payment is just ...BOGUS...!!!!

Peaceman · February 23, 2010 11:27PM

Ship dates mean nothing. The only first strike that I know that can be verified is this coin:

TomB · February 23, 2010 11:30PM

The possible emission sequence of early half dollars has been extensively studied for many years and an order of die marriages has been proposed for each year based upon certain rules, evidence or steps in logic. To call a PL surfaced coin a first strike might make sense if you mean relatively early strike for that pair of dies after its last manipulation, but I don't know if it makes any sense to believe it is an early strike for the date of issue.

stinkinlincoln · February 24, 2010 12:13AM

Ahhhh, someone has dont it ok... I just couldnt remember if anyone tried it before.

I see the points made by some very smart collectors.

Thanks for providing some info.

Nysoto · February 24, 2010 12:45AM

Classic head gold can have sharp strikes and can be prooflike, but they should not be labeled first strikes. If the die stages are known, they could be called early die stage. With low survival rates on early US coins, it would be impossible to determine the first strike of any issue, despite the marketing hype of the Neil/Carter 1794 dollar.

Emission orders are known for most pre-seated lib series. The Leaman-Gunnet study is one of the more interesting ("America's Silver Coinage" ANS 1986), as they used edge lettering die wear and links to determine the emission order for the capped bust half dollar series.

Broadstruck · February 24, 2010 12:58AM

<< <i>Ship dates mean nothing. The only first strike that I know that can be verified is this coin:

>>

Since thousands of ASE's received a First Strike slab insert... I'm kinda upset this Firster Strike didn't

messydesk · February 24, 2010 1:00AM

The 1878 VAM 9 dollar has been proven to be the first die pair in use for Morgan dollars. Contemporary documentation shows that the first coins rolled off the press at 3:15 pm on March 11, 1878, and that the die was replaced shortly thereafter. First strikes on later die pairs will still have PL surfaces and sharp detail, but as they weren't the first die pair, one can't really call them first strikes. While I'm sure there are "first strike" die pairs identified for other coins of other series, there is probably less known about how long those dies were in service. To wit, a circulated specimen off a specific die pair can't really be shown to be struck the on the first day of use absent evidence of the dies being replaced on that day.

Real first strike...

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