Will this 1875-S Trade dollar grade or has the toning gotten too crusty?

TennesseeDave · February 6, 2010 7:37AM

Just got this at a coin show today and liked the crusty look,but is it too crusty to grade?Also whats with the little blob of a mint mark?

Edited to ask about the mint mark.

doh · February 6, 2010 7:39AM

Probably lightly cleaned and retoned, but I could see it being market acceptable enough to slab.

TexasNationals · February 6, 2010 7:45AM

cleaned and retoned- body bag

TennesseeDave · February 6, 2010 11:55PM

I would like a few more opinions on this.

DRUNNER · February 7, 2010 12:29AM

The appearance is one where the original coin was cleaned in an old-time manner. I would say long ago, non-abrasive (dip), and with an earlier generation of solution like cyanide. The rim appearance is caused by a leftover remnant of the caustic dip solution that either didn't get neutralized or didn't get removed in its entirety. The chemical reaction of the holder (possibly a coin board as many were highly sulphurized in processing the paper) gave the heavier 'etched' appearance to the toning.

But, you can see now that light handling has removed the toning from the accessible areas of the fields and high points of the devices with little or no damage. I'd think the evidence of toning could be removed, but then again, is it worth it? You have an interesting piece (WAG XF40?) that is a solid, authentic example and any money you throw at it may or may not be a return on your investment. But, it IS a nice collectable piece. You can get a holdered one in time that has no problems at all, at the grade level you wish.

Nice pics . . . and a fun, historical piece. Good luck on it!

Drunner

mirabela · February 7, 2010 12:39AM

Sure, that'll grade. I can't see why it wouldn't.

Question is, why bother? It's a decent looking XF trade dollar and as long as you're confident it's genuine, what else is there to learn?

coinguy1 · February 7, 2010 12:42AM

<< cleaned and retoned- body bag >>

I have seen many, much less original looking Trade Dollars in major TPG holders. Based on the images provided, it looks like it should grade.

Edited to add: I agree with "Mirabela", though, why bother?

TennesseeDave · February 7, 2010 12:49AM

<< Sure, that'll grade. I can't see why it wouldn't.

Question is, why bother? It's a decent looking XF trade dollar and as long as you're confident it's genuine, what else is there to learn? >>

I'm doing an everymans collection of Trade$

DDR · February 7, 2010 1:28AM

By the way, TennesseeDave, that is a type II reverse (no berry) which is scarcer than the type I reverse you usually see on an 1875-S Trade dollar. Only about 15 percent of 75-S's are type II.

mirabela · February 7, 2010 10:41AM

<< I'm doing an everymans collection of Trade$ >>

OK, well, there's a coin for it. Mission accomplished.

Or, are you doing an everyman's collection of slabs with trade dollars in them?

Not trying to bust your hump. Just sayin' ...

kaz · February 7, 2010 10:58AM

It has that stored-in-a-leather-pouch look to it, and I think someone carefully cleaned off some of the crust a long time ago. That being said, I think it's a nice XF that stands a good chance of being graded at PCGS. (remember my obviously cleaned 1878-S DDR that's in a PCGS AU holder-- I think yours looks a lot more original).

Now, if they would just put on the label that it's a I/II!!! (Hold on.. Maybe THAT"S the Big Upcoming Announcement!! PCGS will start putting Trade Dollar Die Varieties on the insert! WooHOO!)

snizzle · February 7, 2010 11:03AM

Hey type 2 reverse still a score for a everymans collection did you pickup in knoxville?

Tom

good to meet you

keoj · February 7, 2010 11:56AM

That is a type I/II Small s. It is a very, very rare variety, much rarer than a Type I/II large S.

keoj

TennesseeDave · February 7, 2010 12:02PM

<< That is a type I/II Small s. It is a very, very rare variety, much rarer than a Type I/II large S.

keoj >>

This just keeps getting better

kaz · February 7, 2010 12:40PM

Here is the common large S reverse:

(Congrats, Dave!)

ricko · February 7, 2010 9:54PM

Nice coin and best left out of a slab. A chop mark would make it better (IMO). Cheers, RickO

crypto79 · February 8, 2010 2:35AM

Just got internet back from the snow storm. That is a very MA VF and when grade 4 out of 5 times like clock work. As Keoj said it is the rarest of the known mintmark/ hub-type combos for 75s not counting the s/cc's. Although it carries little premium outside of a few (very cool) nuts.

soty27 · February 8, 2010 2:47AM

Its always very informative to find out all the different opinions on a coin. IMO the coin has been harshly cleaned, retoend, and I would hope the TPG would body bag the coin. I am going to have to agree with mark on this one though, There are several much worse looking coins in major TPG holders currently so based off of that I assume the coin would grade but I sure wish it wouldnt. This is a perfect example of EXTREME varying of standards from one series to another. Take that cleaning and put it on a wheat cent, bodybag, put that cleaning on an 1881-s morgan, bodybag, thake that cleaning put it on a buffalo nickel, body bag, take that cleaning throw it on an old type coin, probly going to grade

crypto79 · February 8, 2010 3:02AM

<< Its always very informative to find out all the different opinions on a coin. IMO the coin has been harshly cleaned, retoend, and I would hope the TPG would body bag the coin. I am going to have to agree with mark on this one though, There are several much worse looking coins in major TPG holders currently so based off of that I assume the coin would grade but I sure wish it wouldnt. This is a perfect example of EXTREME varying of standards from one series to another. Take that cleaning and put it on a wheat cent, bodybag, put that cleaning on an 1881-s morgan, bodybag, thake that cleaning put it on a buffalo nickel, body bag, take that cleaning throw it on an old type coin, probly going to grade

>>

I don't see harshly cleaned I see a cir coin that that was dipped, sold to a low end collector by most likely the same dealer who dipped it and said collector put it in a album several decades ago where it since retoned in the album style. Before being put back on the market where it was not freshened up this go around due to current market standards. That said I would love to see your completely original 18th cen silver collection.

soty27 · February 8, 2010 3:17AM

<< 

<< Its always very informative to find out all the different opinions on a coin. IMO the coin has been harshly cleaned, retoend, and I would hope the TPG would body bag the coin. I am going to have to agree with mark on this one though, There are several much worse looking coins in major TPG holders currently so based off of that I assume the coin would grade but I sure wish it wouldnt. This is a perfect example of EXTREME varying of standards from one series to another. Take that cleaning and put it on a wheat cent, bodybag, put that cleaning on an 1881-s morgan, bodybag, thake that cleaning put it on a buffalo nickel, body bag, take that cleaning throw it on an old type coin, probly going to grade

>>

I don't see harshly cleaned I see a cir coin that that was dipped, sold to a low end collector by most likely the same dealer who dipped it and said collector put it in a album several decades ago where it since retoned in the album style. Before being put back on the market where it was not freshened up this go around due to current market standards. That said I would love to see your completely original 18th cen silver collection. >>

You already posted your opinion of the coin so why post again? I posted my opinion of the coin, are you posting again just to argue with me? We clearly see the coin differently so move on.

Will this 1875-S Trade dollar grade or has the toning gotten too crusty?

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