UPDATE: Coin got BB'd. - I think I made a mistake cracking this one out - AU58 US-Philippines 1915-S

IloiloKano · February 1, 2010 12:29PM

I am preparing a new submission to PCGS, and since I can't group cross-overs with raw coins in one submission, I decided to crack out my NCG AU58 1915-S US-Philippines Centavo so that I could photograph it before sending it in to PCGS for grading. This is THE key date, and I hoped it would cross as AU58. Now, I'm not so sure. Perhaps it will get AU55, or God forbid lower.

I welcome others opinions. Here are the images after cracking it out.

1960NYGiants · February 1, 2010 12:52PM

I dunno about '58 but I see green spots on the piece and parallel lines (cleaning?) running from 1 to 7 o'clock. It may get "Genuine".

edit to add:
Try that acetone bath you did on the other piece. If any of the lustre remains and pops out like the other it may make it back into a 58 holder.

ASUtodd · February 1, 2010 1:17PM

I'm thinking you made a mistake on this one..... I'm seeing the same lines 1960nygiants is seeing... Also looks like some verdigris or pvc on it... I will wish you good luck and I hope it comes out to your favor!

WWW · February 1, 2010 1:28PM

Looks like it has a decent shot at an AU58, and I would not mess with it at all.
You live by the crack out and you die by the crack out, nothing is certain there.
Especially with copper at PCGS. Besides, what have you got to lose now?

IloiloKano · February 1, 2010 2:12PM

There's no PVC - I already used acetone on it, and there's no residual luster left.

The green spots appear to me to be verdigris, but I'm sort of worried that if I use olive oil to loosen it, there may be pitting beneath, so I think I'll leave it.

The hairlines are not from a cleaning, in my opinion, but from friction wear, since there's so much accumulation in the crevasses, and if someone had attempted to clean it, surely they would not have left it so crusty.

Though it clearly has the details of an AU58 coin, my own belief is that other problems will keep it from getting anything higher than AU53.

I think there's a remote chance PCGS won't grade it.

Hopefully, I am being objective, rather than my judgment being clouded by my wishes, but this is really depressing.

FilamCoins · February 1, 2010 2:26PM

That's funny. Before I read your comments, I was thinking 53 due to wear and ugly spots. I agree with the others that there's a 50/50 chance of bagging for corrosion and/or and old wipe. BTW, I'm heading back to the Phils next month for another work assigment. Looking forward to attending the monthly auctions and collecting raw again after a 3 year hiatus!

IloiloKano · February 2, 2010 2:16AM

<< <i>That's funny. Before I read your comments, I was thinking 53 due to wear and ugly spots. I agree with the others that there's a 50/50 chance of bagging for corrosion and/or and old wipe. BTW, I'm heading back to the Phils next month for another work assigment. Looking forward to attending the monthly auctions and collecting raw again after a 3 year hiatus! >>

I'm starting to think I'll be happy if it simply gets a grade of AU50, but if it isn't BB'd then I suspect it would at least make AU53, based upon the appearance of a couple PCGS AU50's that I've seen.
jetblack740il's PCGS AU50 for sale
PhilippineCoins.com's PCGS AU50 for sale
Realistically, a 50/50 chance of being BB'd is probably a good prediction (for environmental damage?), but the hairlines seen in the image are much more pronounced than when the coin is viewed in hand. Damn!

I doubt I'd know results before you get back from the Philippines, but if it gets BB'd, I might ask you to keep your eye out for a nice raw 1915-S for me.

TwoKopeiki · February 2, 2010 2:30AM

Hmm... I'd have to go with a "Genuine" designation. PCGS has been all over the board with hairlines recently. I'd say 60/40 chance.

IloiloKano · February 4, 2010 5:27AM

I see a nice raw one has appeared on ebay, so now I'm figuring just how substantial a snipe bid I can afford to place. Crossing my fingers.

Hussulo · February 4, 2010 7:25AM

My gut instinct is "Genuine" designation by PCGS for the hairlines, sorry.

JimK · February 4, 2010 7:38AM

My vote is genuine as well. But I wish you the best of luck on this one...
Jim

coinkat · February 4, 2010 8:33AM

I did not vote but I think you need to prepare your consession speech

jetblack740il · February 4, 2010 8:57AM

Based on the photo provided, I would have to agree with everyone "genuine". Good luck!

sinin1 · February 4, 2010 12:10PM

I think you are correct, ouch

did the thick NGC plastic cover up the wipe?

IloiloKano · February 4, 2010 1:32PM

A refreshingly honest ebay seller of the 1915-S US-PI Centavo I was considering in order to replace this disaster responded to my query regarding HIS OPINION on whether the coin could get certified, and he frankly told me that he didn't think so, even though he had to know I would be much less likely to bid. His honesty somewhat offsets my disappointment at my probably having to wait a looong time before another shows up on ebay in the AU55 to MS61 range. I don't care to own a lower grade and I cannot afford a higher one.

I decided to use olive oil to remove the verdigris, and it does indeed look better now, but still not good enough. I have to vacate for a few days for termite fumigation starting tomorrow, (bummer and a major hassle), which seem to prove the expression "when it rains, it pours"!

Edited to answer the previous question: The old NGC slab was so badly scuffed, scratched and a bit hazy, I didn't notice the problems before cracking it out.

IloiloKano · July 1, 2011 5:42AM

Last month I sent this coin and another 1915-S Centavo to PCGS for grading. I just received both back, and this one got body bagged 92 Cleaned, while the other coin received an AU55 designation.

Lesson learned. Never break a coin out to be graded by another service unless you're okay with it possibly ending up with the "Genuine Not Gradable" moniker.

I'll probably end up listing it on eBay, (with full disclosure and a link to this forum post), even though I probably could get more money by simply listing it without any background history whatsoever. I can't bring myself to compromise my integrity for financial gain.

This was the coin photographed through the original badly scratched NGC holder.

Justhavingfun · July 19, 2011 3:46PM

Too bad. It's a lovely specimen of a hard date. I hope for your sake you get your grade. Good luck.

Just having fun in Bangkok

UPDATE: Coin got BB'd. - I think I made a mistake cracking this one out - AU58 US-Philippines 1915-S

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