FEEBAY & PIGPAL ........ Perfect Together !!!!
chaz43
Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭
Well, FEEBAY is at it again. It is just a matter of time before Pigpal(which is owned by Feebay) gets their hands in our pockets too. This is the toughest economy since the Great Depression and Feebay's greed is unbelievable. 9% ???????? .... you have got to be kidding me????? They have almost doubled their fees! The government has to step in and stop this monopoly..... it is legalized thievery!!!! At least PSA has the brains to not raise prices in this economy. chaz
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Comments
<< <i>Well, FEEBAY is at it again. It is just a matter of time before Pigpal(which is owned by Feebay) gets their hands in our pockets too. This is the toughest economy since the Great Depression and Feebay's greed is unbelievable. 9% ???????? .... you have got to be kidding me????? They have almost doubled their fees! The government has to step in and stop this monopoly..... it is legalized thievery!!!! At least PSA has the brains to not raise prices in this economy. chaz >>
I think the government might have more important things to do like investigate steroid use in baseball!
I agree fees going up sucks but most people will just suck it up and play along – where else will people sell their stuff?
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, FEEBAY is at it again. It is just a matter of time before Pigpal(which is owned by Feebay) gets their hands in our pockets too. This is the toughest economy since the Great Depression and Feebay's greed is unbelievable. 9% ???????? .... you have got to be kidding me????? They have almost doubled their fees! The government has to step in and stop this monopoly..... it is legalized thievery!!!! At least PSA has the brains to not raise prices in this economy. chaz >>
I think the government might have more important things to do like investigate steroid use in baseball!
I agree fees going up sucks but most people will just suck it up and play along � where else will people sell their stuff? >>
Something has to be done...... this is ridiculous! chaz
that'll show 'em.
<< <i>The government has to step in and stop this monopoly..... >>
The brings up an interesting topic... does Ebay + Paypal meet the definition of a Vertical Monopoly. I don't believe so, since they are not selling a product. They are only selling a location to list products. If you think about it like your local flea market. The flea market may be the only one in town, but it doesn't constitute a monopoly if he raises the prices to rent a booth there.
<< <i>
<< <i>The government has to step in and stop this monopoly..... >>
The brings up an interesting topic... does Ebay + Paypal meet the definition of a Vertical Monopoly. I don't believe so, since they are not selling a product. They are only selling a location to list products. If you think about it like your local flea market. The flea market may be the only one in town, but it doesn't constitute a monopoly if he raises the prices to rent a booth there. >>
I disagree. They are selling a product ( the product is their auction service which is a monopoly). They dominate just like Ma' Bell did and they broke that up. It's way past due to break up FEEBAY and PIGPAL !!!!! chaz
<< <i>STRIKE! No listings or buying for one week. Bring back the Mall card shows from the 80's
Yes, yes, yes !!!!! chaz
someone should just come up with another auction type site for sportscards only.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The government has to step in and stop this monopoly..... >>
The brings up an interesting topic... does Ebay + Paypal meet the definition of a Vertical Monopoly. I don't believe so, since they are not selling a product. They are only selling a location to list products. If you think about it like your local flea market. The flea market may be the only one in town, but it doesn't constitute a monopoly if he raises the prices to rent a booth there. >>
I disagree. They are selling a product ( the product is their auction service which is a monopoly). They dominate just like Ma' Bell did and they broke that up. It's way past due to break up FEEBAY and PIGPAL !!!!! chaz >>
nobody is stopping anyone from opening an eBay/paypal like system to compete, therefore, no monopoly.
<< <i>
someone should just come up with another auction type site for sportscards only.
Or potentially the whole scope of the collectibles market. Plenty of collectors sell from their collections and buy from what they sell or from excess cash. Many went through ebay before.
<< <i>nobody is stopping anyone from opening an eBay/paypal like system to compete, therefore, no monopoly. >>
Part of the issue is greed for the competitors. I checked out a few of the other competitors both seem to have high prices....
CheckOutMyCards.com
15 cents per card
1 cent per card per month
20% of sales to cash out your money
Sportlots
Has a graded scale, but you'd have to have over $300 in monthly sales to get below a 20% of sales fee... monthly sales have to be over $1500 to get a 15% of sales fee... and the scales first two categories result in 75% of sales as fees and 50% of sales as fees.
Rodney
<< <i>I don't see the whole monopoly thing being valid. There are other auction sites to sell on right? Paypal isn't the only electronic payment method that can be used on Ebay is it? Aren't there a list of like 5 of those services that will work?
Rodney >>
Ebay only allows Paypal.
vertical integration
Form of business organization in which all stages of production of a good, from the acquisition of raw materials to the retailing of the final product, are controlled by one
company. A current example is the oil industry, in which a single firm commonly owns the oil wells, refines the oil, and sells gasoline at roadside stations. In horizontal
integration, by contrast, a company attempts to control a single stage of production or a single industry completely, which lets it take advantage of economies of scale but
results in reduced competition. (britanica.)
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EBAY is not a monopoly.
They are really only vulnerable on three primary fronts:
1. Knowingly allowing fraudulent transactions to repeatedly occur.
2. Using a modified tying-agreement through PayPal.
3. Conducting "banking-like" transactions w/o regulatory oversight.
.............
Someday, a young lawyer will chase them and EBAY will lose.
The challenge is that they are well-protected by a corrupt/reticent
judiciary and purchased-friends at the highest levels of government.
..........................
That EBAY has limited/no competition is a function of the marketplace.
It is simply NOT possible for a public company to make enough money
on an EBAY-clone to compete.
NO such company is barred from trying to compete; only common sense
prevents their entry into the fight.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Rodney
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't see the whole monopoly thing being valid. There are other auction sites to sell on right? Paypal isn't the only electronic payment method that can be used on Ebay is it? Aren't there a list of like 5 of those services that will work?
Rodney >>
Ebay only allows Paypal. >>
"...Paypal isn't the only electronic payment method that can be used on Ebay is it?..."
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No.
In theory, there are an almost unlimited number of electronic payment options
that are acceptable on EBAY.
The problem for users is that 99% of sellers either cannot economically justify
the use of those alts OR cannot qualify to obtain them.
That makes for the novel argument that EBAY/PayPal has created a "modified
tying-agreement" that acts as a de facto bar to the use of services other than
PayPal.
//////////////////////////////
Speculation is rampant on that issue, but the odds of it going down are
way less than 50/50.
.....................
EBAY's tentacles transcended any need to adopt a partisan leaning long
ago. They care only about regulatory-policy and have "friends" within every
partisan circle.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>"...Paypal isn't the only electronic payment method that can be used on Ebay is it?..."
/////////////////////////
No.
In theory, there are an almost unlimited number of electronic payment options
that are acceptable on EBAY.
The problem for users is that 99% of sellers either cannot economically justify
the use of those alts OR cannot qualify to obtain them.
That makes for the novel argument that EBAY/PayPal has created a "modified
tying-agreement" that acts as a de facto bar to the use of services other than
PayPal. >>
Feebay and PigPal have thought and researched this thorough thoroughly. chaz
"...Feebay and PigPal have thought and researched this thorough thoroughly. chaz ..."
///////////////////////
They are just gambling that nobody will litigate.
Their "research" means no more than mine, when they get in
front of a series of Fed judges.
Their legal theory is that no tying-agreement can exist if a consumer
has "other options."
If such "options" are not readily/reasonably attainable, the existence of
a de facto tying-agreement can be successfully argued.
<< <i>In the past year I have successfully driven 80% of any regular customer to do offsite transactions, I simply use Ebay to drive new customers than offer the same products to the clients when they ask "do you have any more in stock?" I also send nice handwritten notes with everything informing them that I can get it cheaper and faster without having to deal with Ebay. >>
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I know the 80% number is hard for some folks to believe, BUT
my experience is very close to that number.
It takes some work and some agressive behavior, but I have
done it from DAY ONE.
I use freebies/coupons/flyers/letters/emails to get buyers OFF
of EBAY, the first time they buy anything from me.
<< <i>I see Propay, Moneybookers, and Paymate listed on the payment page in the help section. Do they offer information about alternate services, but then forbid them?
>>
If I am not mistaken, I dont think Moneybookers allows US Customers. I know they are listed on many of the gambling sites as an accepted way of payment, however, when you try to open an account to deposit/withdraw money it says United States customers not permitted.
moneybookers is available to USA folks.
There have been some challenges moving money through it,
but it is "available."
If you have any store subscription, the FVF for auction style listings are 8.75% of the first $50, 4% for $51-$1000, and then 2% for the remainder.
<< <i>Nobody is forcing anyone to use ebay's website and there are a lot of alternatives out there. Do the rate fees suck? Sure they do. But to suggest its a monopoly simply because its the biggest implies you don't understand the meaning of the word monopoly. If you really feel the fees are outrageous, then take your business elsewhere. No, the government should not get involved in private business charging whatever fees they want, especially when there are other businesses out there you can use. Is eBay the biggest with the most traffic? Sure. Does that allow them more room to charge higher rates? Of course it does. With popularity comes higher costs. But you're free to list your items with whomever you choose...nobody is forcing you to sell on eBay. >>
Are you corporate?? Ma Bell. chaz
<< <i>
Are you corporate?? Ma Bell. chaz >>
Nope, but I am smart enough to understand how businesses work - they're not charities. Costs rise and eBay has found themselves in an enviable position of being a market leader in online auctioning. They offer a service and see a huge number of visitors every day and they base their rates based on that traffic.
You want the best of both worlds, and that's understandable. You want the auction site with the most visitors to offer the lowest rates, and that's simply a bad business model. These sites are not in the business of lowering profits to make people feel better, their sole purpose is to maximize profits. If you really feel strong enough that these fees are unreasonable than by all means take your business to a competitor. When enough people do this, then either the new business becomes the dominant model or the old one adapts and lowers its cost.
<< <i>
<< <i>Nobody is forcing anyone to use ebay's website and there are a lot of alternatives out there. Do the rate fees suck? Sure they do. But to suggest its a monopoly simply because its the biggest implies you don't understand the meaning of the word monopoly. If you really feel the fees are outrageous, then take your business elsewhere. No, the government should not get involved in private business charging whatever fees they want, especially when there are other businesses out there you can use. Is eBay the biggest with the most traffic? Sure. Does that allow them more room to charge higher rates? Of course it does. With popularity comes higher costs. But you're free to list your items with whomever you choose...nobody is forcing you to sell on eBay. >>
Are you corporate?? Ma Bell. chaz >>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Are you corporate?? Ma Bell. chaz >>
Nope, but I am smart enough to understand how businesses work - they're not charities. Costs rise and eBay has found themselves in an enviable position of being a market leader in online auctioning. They offer a service and see a huge number of visitors every day and they base their rates based on that traffic.
You want the best of both worlds, and that's understandable. You want the auction site with the most visitors to offer the lowest rates, and that's simply a bad business model. These sites are not in the business of lowering profits to make people feel better, their sole purpose is to maximize profits. If you really feel strong enough that these fees are unreasonable than by all means take your business to a competitor. When enough people do this, then either the new business becomes the dominant model or the old one adapts and lowers its cost. >>
What competitor???? That's the problem !!! chaz
<< <i>
<< <i>
Are you corporate?? Ma Bell. chaz >>
Nope, but I am smart enough to understand how businesses work - they're not charities. Costs rise and eBay has found themselves in an enviable position of being a market leader in online auctioning. They offer a service and see a huge number of visitors every day and they base their rates based on that traffic.
You want the best of both worlds, and that's understandable. You want the auction site with the most visitors to offer the lowest rates, and that's simply a bad business model. These sites are not in the business of lowering profits to make people feel better, their sole purpose is to maximize profits. If you really feel strong enough that these fees are unreasonable than by all means take your business to a competitor. When enough people do this, then either the new business becomes the dominant model or the old one adapts and lowers its cost. >>
Read Storm's response!!
Their legal theory is that no tying-agreement can exist if a consumer
has "other options."
If such "options" are not readily/reasonably attainable, the existence of
a de facto tying-agreement can be successfully argued.
chaz
<< <i>
What competitor???? That's the problem !!! chaz >>
Are you kidding me? It took me all of 10 seconds to find this link:
354 eBay alternatives
Again, I'm not defending eBay's practices of raising rates often, but I understand that they are the biggest (from the article I linked alexa has eBay listed as the 12th most popular site in the world) and therefore have the ability to raise rates seemingly at will. Until people rise up in mass numbers and exit their business, they will continue to do so.
<< <i>
<< <i>
What competitor???? That's the problem !!! chaz >>
Are you kidding me? It took me all of 10 seconds to find this link:
354 eBay alternatives
Again, I'm not defending eBay's practices of raising rates often, but I understand that they are the biggest (from the article I linked alexa has eBay listed as the 12th most popular site in the world) and therefore have the ability to raise rates seemingly at will. Until people rise up in mass numbers and exit their business, they will continue to do so. >>
I know what you are saying but take ebid........ the number 1 choice. Is that really a viable alternative?? I looked up 1949 bowman and 4 cards came up with 2 reprints..... give me a break. Feebay is like Ma' Bell.... it has to be broken up and the same with that ripoff site Pigpal. chaz
<< <i>
I know what you are saying but take ebid........ the number 1 choice. Is that really a viable alternative?? I looked up 1949 bowman and 4 cards came up with 2 reprints..... give me a break. Feebay is like Ma' Bell.... it has to be broken up and the same with that ripoff site Pigpal. chaz >>
No, they don't need to be broken up...what you're saying is that anytime any business becomes 'too' successful, the government needs to step in and take action? I shudder to think of the government then going into any business that's deemed 'too' successful, where does it end? Especially when there are other businesses that offer the same exact service. I understand you're upset about the rate increases, but to suggest the government needs to intervene is a rash overreaction.
Your own search proves why eBay continues to raise its rates. Its (by far) the biggest) auction site out there, and continues to distance itself from its competitors. Shouldn't that vast difference in traffic also have a difference in rates as well? When an auction site offers free listings and eBay charges, shouldn't the huge numbers of people visiting the site account for that difference in charges?
Again, I get why you're upset but also understand that there is no way that the government should get involved in ANY private business enterprise simply because they've been fortunate to become extremely successful.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I know what you are saying but take ebid........ the number 1 choice. Is that really a viable alternative?? I looked up 1949 bowman and 4 cards came up with 2 reprints..... give me a break. Feebay is like Ma' Bell.... it has to be broken up and the same with that ripoff site Pigpal. chaz >>
No, they don't need to be broken up...what you're saying is that anytime any business becomes 'too' successful, the government needs to step in and take action? I shudder to think of the government then going into any business that's deemed 'too' successful, where does it end? Especially when there are other businesses that offer the same exact service. I understand you're upset about the rate increases, but to suggest the government needs to intervene is a rash overreaction.
Your own search proves why eBay continues to raise its rates. Its (by far) the biggest) auction site out there, and continues to distance itself from its competitors. Shouldn't that vast difference in traffic also have a difference in rates as well? When an auction site offers free listings and eBay charges, shouldn't the huge numbers of people visiting the site account for that difference in charges?
Again, I get why you're upset but also understand that there is no way that the government should get involved in ANY private business enterprise simply because they've been fortunate to become extremely successful. >>
very good post, I agree with you. It makes me sick when people/companies are discriminated against because they are successful. I think the entire "tax the rich more" premise is ridiculous in all aspects. The entire idea of the American Dream and a truly free society is that anyone is afforded the opportunity to be successful and do anything they wish as far as work or business. When the government intervenes and tries to instill socialist ideals, basically trying to give people stuff for free when they could be helping themselves it reduces the incentive for people to work hard and make their own money. I for one, love the idea of successful corporations and idividuals that provide the majority of the jobs in the marketplace. End rant/
I have ZERO problem with EBAY/PayPal fees. I worry about what I make,
not what EBAY makes.
EBAY delivers about 2/3 of the page-views that they did in 2004/05. They
are the "relative" leader in sports-card traffic, but as their fees have gone
up, their traffic has declined. Consumers pay more to advertise to fewer
folks.
EBAY is NOT a "monopoly." They are a vertically-integrated advertsing and
financial-services conglom that engages in unregulated - anti-consumer -
biz practices. The govt needs to regulate them, NOT break them up.
....................
Watch AMZN this afternoon. Read the conference call transcript to learn
what kind of traffic/page-views a REAL online retailer can deliver.
DISCLAIMER: I have no current position in EBAY or AMZN.
<< <i>I have ZERO problem with EBAY/PayPal fees. I worry about what I make,
not what EBAY makes.
EBAY delivers about 2/3 of the page-views that they did in 2004/05. They
are the "relative" leader in sports-card traffic, but as their fees have gone
up, their traffic has declined. Consumers pay more to advertise to fewer
folks.
EBAY is NOT a "monopoly." They are a vertically-integrated advertsing and
financial-services conglom that engages in unregulated - anti-consumer -
biz practices. The govt needs to regulate them, NOT break them up.
....................
Watch AMZN this afternoon. Read the conference call transcript to learn
what kind of traffic/page-views a REAL online retailer can deliver.
DISCLAIMER: I have no current position in EBAY or AMZN. >>
The simple solution is if you feel that eBay is not offering you a good value for your money than you take your business elsewhere. It's a simple practice really and one that we should embrace and celebrate being in a capitalistic society that offers us virtually unlimited choices when it comes to buying and selling of goods. This isn't communist U.S.S.R. of the 60s and 70s where people had to line up at one bakery to buy bread, we can sell our goods on any number of websites.
As far as your Amazon and eBay comparison, in the US at least, eBay is ranked #8 and amazon #7 by alexa, who is widely regarded as the best source of traffic information. Globally, there's a bit more of a disparity, with eBay at #24 and Amazon at #19.
Again, you are free to sell at any number of online auction sites. eBay has the highest fees because they are the biggest. This is nothing new, and is definitely not exclusive to online retailing. When shopping around for a brick and mortar site, will your rent be higher or lower at the site with the most traffic? Of course its going to be higher. In the same scenario, when your lease is re-negotiated, do they not use traffic to either raise or lower rents? Of course they do. This isn't just eBay doing this, this happens in every business. If you feel the rent/listing fees are too high, you take your business elsewhere.
No, the government should not be regulating private enterprise when other options are available. No, the government's job isn't to babysit you, and no, its not their job to intervene in private business enterprise. Please, keep the government out of private business! I'd hate to think that someday I could be running a business that the government felt became 'too successful' and then got their noses in it! And you should feel the same way!
Understanding that the frustration in higher rates and that it sucks, but also understand that there are viable options out there to sell your goods at other venues, and that government intervention is the last thing we should be asking for!
"...Understanding that the frustration in higher rates and that it sucks, but also understand that there are viable options out there to sell your goods at other venues, and that government intervention is the last thing we should be asking for!..."
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As far as I can recall, I have never complained about EBAY/PayPal fees.
Buyers pay ALL such fees; the fees are included in the price of items sold.
............
PayPal charges consumers for "bank like" transactions that need to be
regulated. Hopefully, that will happen VERY soon.
This is absolutely incorrect! I'll prove it to you. Say I sold an item today on ebay for $100 with a 9% FVF. One could argue that the $9 fee was paid by the buyer and that my item was really only worth $91. However, if ebay raised the FVF to 11% the very next day, and I sell another item identical to the other one at $100, then its the SELLER that takes that extra $2 hit. The buyer did not pay one extra cent of those fees, it landed squarely in the seller's lap. Therefore it is the Seller that pays the fees, not buyers.
When I want to NET a $100 on a sale,
I price the item at
$100
Plus ALL FEES.
The buyer pays ALL of those fees.
<< <i>"Buyers pay ALL such fees; the fees are included in the price of items sold."
This is absolutely incorrect! I'll prove it to you. Say I sold an item today on ebay for $100 with a 9% FVF. One could argue that the $9 fee was paid by the buyer and that my item was really only worth $91. However, if ebay raised the FVF to 11% the very next day, and I sell another item identical to the other one at $100, then its the SELLER that takes that extra $2 hit. The buyer did not pay one extra cent of those fees, it landed squarely in the seller's lap. Therefore it is the Seller that pays the fees, not buyers. >>
That's a bad reading of economics, IMO. Assuming you're not funding your seller status from an outside source and instead are operating as a for-profit vendor, then ALL of your revenue comes from the buyers, right? So, given that, then buyers pay ALL your fees and costs. What's left is your profit; if that profit isn't high enough then you raise your prices.
That's EXACTLY why all these proposals to tax businesses are flawed - the business DOES NOT pay those costs. They are purely pass-through costs.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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"...ALL of your revenue comes from the buyers, right? So, given that, then buyers pay ALL your fees and costs. What's left is your profit; if that profit isn't high enough then you raise your prices.
That's EXACTLY why all these proposals to tax businesses are flawed - the business DOES NOT pay those costs. They are purely pass-through costs...."
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Yup.
<< <i>When I want to NET a $100 on a sale,
I price the item at
$100
Plus ALL FEES.
The buyer pays ALL of those fees. >>
Not in auction format. And lets not forget, there still are a FEW auctions left on ebay.