<< <i>After I discovered this board and joined, read several posts and made numerous friends I decided to pay my fees and submit coins. Had I done it the opposite way I would have submitted many coins that didn't deserve to be submitted. I would have felt negative about that experience. I would think long and hard about limiting this board to dues paying members and dealers. In my example you would have cut off a paying member and I would guess that I am not the only one who was encouraged to join due to their participation in this boards. If you are currently satisfied with your rate of submissions then I agree limit board participation to paying members. If not then continue to find ways to make these boards a good marketing tool for the company. Having run a few companies one thing I know for sure is listen to your customers (what better way than a board) and don't make decisions based on emotion that can reflect on your bottom line.
Having said that I agree with the rules posted here however automatically banning someone for a first offense, especially one not made to incite might be a little heavy handed.
On a final note Don as I no longer submit coins or only through a dealer I still encourage friends, new collectors, and young collectors to visit your site and discuss at length with them the advantages of joining. I find irony in that a couple of dealers who recommend that only dues payers belong would have not found some new clients had I not joined and recommended them. Dealers be careful what you wish for. >>
May I point out that if it's merely better moderation that's wanted, a number of forums use volunteer moderators with great success.
Also, this is not merely a situation where the non-paying members would be denied a benefit by not allowing them to post. I would venture to say that a number of non-payers provide more and better information than some paying members, so excluding non-payers would be to the detriment of the community as a whole.
I am not going to reiterate my feelings on the BS&T- peopel sell more NGC and garbage there for PCGS reatail than they have ever before.
and now I glance and see that the shareholders have no say as to what these boards do?
funny- who is paying the freight for the family at PCGS? I'm pretty sure that when a shareholder adds liquidity to the company somewhere down the line that $$ is filtered back into the pockets of those working for the share holder. To say that they have no say in a matter as to how the business is run is not a sound business tactic.
stock price was good today- good day to dump and move into a more profitable venture.
and I do believe that a board will listen to complaints fom share holders- that is how they normally vote on matters that make the business stronger- Buffet did not get to be top dog by not listening to his people..
have the new rules been submitted to the board for review and acceptance and thus finalized.
DW wrote... >>>>> Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that.
<< <i>I am not going to reiterate my feelings on the BS&T- peopel sell more NGC and garbage there for PCGS reatail than they have ever before.
and now I glance and see that the shareholders have no say as to what these boards do?
funny- who is paying the freight for the family at PCGS? I'm pretty sure that when a shareholder adds liquidity to the company somewhere down the line that $$ is filtered back into the pockets of those working for the share holder. To say that they have no say in a matter as to how the business is run is not a sound business tactic.
stock price was good today- good day to dump and move into a more profitable venture.
and I do believe that a board will listen to complaints fom share holders- that is how they normally vote on matters that make the business stronger- Buffet did not get to be top dog by not listening to his people..
have the new rules been submitted to the board for review and acceptance and thus finalized.
I know I never saw this until the other day..
Have a great evening all- >>
I was joking about the shareholder vote thing.
One could presumably put something out for a vote, but I don't see day-to-day operations as something requiring a shareholder vote nor board action. if the board got involved or the shareholders had to vote on something this small then nothing would ever get done. (and the company would only need the board and not president/ceo) It's just not how things operate.
I would like to hear DWs opinion. After all it was his reply to my queries of the new PCGS rules that opened this question as to whether certain post-content and said posters would be eliminate from these forums for same violations.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>I am not going to reiterate my feelings on the BS&T- peopel sell more NGC and garbage there for PCGS reatail than they have ever before.
and now I glance and see that the shareholders have no say as to what these boards do?
funny- who is paying the freight for the family at PCGS? I'm pretty sure that when a shareholder adds liquidity to the company somewhere down the line that $$ is filtered back into the pockets of those working for the share holder. To say that they have no say in a matter as to how the business is run is not a sound business tactic.
stock price was good today- good day to dump and move into a more profitable venture.
and I do believe that a board will listen to complaints fom share holders- that is how they normally vote on matters that make the business stronger- Buffet did not get to be top dog by not listening to his people..
have the new rules been submitted to the board for review and acceptance and thus finalized.
I know I never saw this until the other day..
Have a great evening all- >>
Public shareholders have no say on minute, daily operations on businesses and to suggest otherwise is absurd. If you do not like the way the company is run (any company that is), you have two choices:
1. Elect directors who you believe will represent your views. 2. Sell your shares and forget about it.
<< <i>and now I glance and see that the shareholders have no say as to what these boards do? >>
most shareholder votes elect the board and ratify the auditing firm.
occaisionally, and especially in the last few years, there have been some pushes in the environmental and human right areas to get companies to work towards becmoing more aware and to consider the issues in their business.
Also note: "Groups Contact 1,800 Investors Holding 58% of ExxonMobil Shares" Generally, large individual and institutional investors hold the controlling votes. Small individual investors are a small voice.
so how many "non coin related" threads are you guys allowed? This is like the 3rd thread that moves real coin threads down the list on to the 2nd page. Spare us.
I was anti-slabbing for 20 years before coming here. Having collected for 45 years, I never owned a PCGS coin until 2006. Now I recognize the value of having a reputable fee-based professional grading service. Without being able to participate on this forum, I'd never have become a platinum member or a strong advocate for PCGS as the premier standard in grading. So, this forum definitely does have an impact on PCGS's business, from my point of view.
Posting here, I've been able to identify some dealers that I will be able to work with in the future, and a few that I will feel free to avoid. I've benefited from the comments and threads that others have made about some of the dealer members here, both pro and con.
I've also made some friends in this forum. Sometimes, I find myself providing basic information that seems mundane to me, but it's (sometimes) of interest to someone else. That's the dynamic that makes this forum work, in my opinion. My little corner of the coin market has been made more vibrant as a result of the information flow around here. I hope it stays that way.
Regards, jmski
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Here Here, please apply theses same types of rules to the Sports Card and Memorabilia Board. By the way, I am new to the board. I have been lurking for about two years and was interested in some items on the BST so I applied for a login account. Goal for 2010 is to complete the Lincoln cent set I have been working on for 30 years!
<< <i>My goal here on the forum for 2010 is to keep my head down and mouth shut >>
Sounds like a good strategy.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>so how many "non coin related" threads are you guys allowed? This is like the 3rd thread that moves real coin threads down the list on to the 2nd page. Spare us. >>
If OnTopic-ness is going to be strictly enforced, and as the forum moves closer towards coins/tokens only convo., more and more people will complain when someone posts anything perceived as off topic (ex: definitely forum related administrative topics like this and "can't stay logged in" and "is this off topic" etc.) will get bashed.
however, where is there to post such things? I propose an "forum Q&A" or "forums complaints and suggestions" or some such where these things can be posted.
Even if they are not needed now.... if the forums move towards more OnTopic... I predict they eventually will be.
But for now.... there is no where else to post the discussions and PMs are not a viable solution.
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that." >>
No one probably cares what a YN from Nebraska thinks but here goes.
I don't know how many YN's there are out there who lurk or whatever but for me, I know EVERYTHING I have in this hobby (the people I know, the things I've learned, the opportunities I've had) has come from 2 sources. This forum and my dad. It was a 4th of July, YN giveaway, on this forum that got me hooked when I started posting here under my parents supervision when I was 11. There are not a lot of YN's who would either want or be able to pay to become members to post, ask questions, learn things, etc. when that same money could buy an actual coin. $49.95 is a lot for a YN, believe it or not.
I know technically that YN's aren't even supposed to be post here, but I am thankful that I have been able too. If YN's are the future of the hobby, does it benefit the hobby to purposefully exclude them? I do a column for our coin club newsletter called "How I started" and just about all the people I've interviewed all say they got started when they were kids. Some lost interest and came back, others never left. Either way, their interest started when they were kids. I don't live where there are major shows. I don't have the opportunity to exhibit, attend or mingle at those kind of events but I do get to do that here.
If the forum becomes members only, it might greatly reduce the opportunites new Yn's get that I and other YN's have enjoyed over the years because of the access to people and knowledge this forum has given them.
What Mr. Spock would say about numismatics... ... "Fascinating, but not logical"
<< <i>I think it says volumes that the moderator locked that Willis' guy's thread, avoiding the poof. >>
I think it says that Don Willis wanted the thread locked and has nothing at all to do with a moderator. Why would a thread started by the president of PCGS be deleted unless he wanted it to be? Edited to add:
<< <i>I think it says volumes that the moderator locked that Willis' guy's thread, avoiding the poof. >>
I think it says that Don Willis wanted the thread locked and has nothing at all to do with a moderator. Why would a thread started by the president of PCGS be deleted unless he wanted it to be? >>
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Did the Open Forum close in 2006? There are currently 194 users logged in. 30133 users are registered to the Collectors Universe forum 10:00 am 01/05/10 U.S. 308,428,524 World 6,794,549,249 16:12 UTC (EST+5) Jan 05, 2010 Whatever you want to make of this tabloid of information, enjoy! If you would like to be included in this list of devoted posters, please post.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
I believe the open forum closed in (early) 2007. it was fun and has been missed. I also believe this caused some of the overflow on US coins forum. I love coins & cards, started collecting in 1967 or 68 and was also anti-slabbing until around 2004, found PCGS & PSA and still have quite a few coins and cards to submit , if it was not for the CU forums I would not have joined PSA/PCGS.
I also believe like others do that you have to have some fun on the forums. one cliche that comes to mind is: "all work and no play makes for a dull day" ( or however that saying goes). just my 2 cents.
<< <i>I think it says volumes that the moderator locked that Willis' guy's thread, avoiding the poof. >>
I think it says that Don Willis wanted the thread locked and has nothing at all to do with a moderator. Why would a thread started by the president of PCGS be deleted unless he wanted it to be? >>
<< <i> I think it says volumes that the moderator locked that Willis' guy's thread, avoiding the poof. >>
The Boss didn't want us posting any worn out brown wheaties in that one. (I'm guessing )
By the way, Walmann, this coin is still one of the nicest specimens I've seen and was an awesome coin for my type set. I must confess, though... I no longer own it. Please forgive me for selling it. That the OP has all upper case letters in his name, but the boss gets relegated to a lower case in his surname, in a major coin thread ought to be serious cause for alarm. It's like throwing a shoe at the president, or something, isn't it ?
There are completely unmoderated forums such as the old rec.collecting.coins but, as always, total freedom comes with total responsibility. A number of posters there were sued by a grading company for comments that crossed the line into personal attacks and defamation. While the individuals were eventually dropped from the lawsuit, I am sure most of them would have, in retrospect, appreciated a moderator removing some of the "over the top" comments.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
I'm troubled that Don could only come up with '9 Commandments' of posting. They will never make a movie about 9 Commandments. Couldn't we come up with one more so at least we have a nice round number of forum rules. Any publisher knows that nobody cares about the '9 rules' of anything...but if you have '10 rules' you can write a book on any topic with authority!
Edited to fix spelling errors and to state that after several years here on the boards, I've never had to resort to a rules list to determine if a posting was appropriate. I've always relied upon 'conversational common sense' and only posted what I would say to an enlightened collector in person. The OT comments/posts/threads never bothered me nearly us much as the uncivil and or flat out mean and ugly personal attacks. I'm not sorry to say good-bye to folks who engaged in that form of participation.
<< <i>I'm troubled that Don could only come up with '9 Commandments' of posting. They will never make a movie about 9 Commandments. Couldn't we come up with one more so at least we have a nice round number of forum rules. Any publisher knows that nobody cares about the '9 rules' of anything...but if you have '10 rules' you can write a book on any topic with authority! >>
<< <i>to state that after several years here on the boards, I've never had to resort to a rules list to determine if a posting was appropriate. I've always relied upon 'conversational common sense' and only posted what I would say to an enlightened collector in person. The OT comments/posts/threads never bothered me nearly us much as the uncivil and or flat out mean and ugly personal attacks. I'm not sorry to say good-bye to folks who engaged in that form of participation. >>
Right on, Greg! It's one thing to make a tongue in check comment or banter back to someone that you personally know. I've "busted" Boom several times about his pet 'gators, and coinguy1 about his scratchy slabs (but great coins inside), and we've all given our beloved Bear the business about his jelly doughnuts. These are just comments that you would not be embarrassed to say in public, in mixed company, or in front of your young children. We all know (or should know) the difference. As for posters who posted attacks, good riddance!
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
"As for posters who posted attacks, good riddance! " I agree but the problem is they will throw the baby out with the bathwater. You will lose more by good civil non members no longer posting than you will gain by getting rid of the bad apples. Nothing is perfect, not even message boards.
Here is my 2 cents (well maybe a little more than that).
I have no problem with the announcement by Mr. Willis of the rules and the enforcement of same. PCGS is our host, pays the bills for the forums and rightfully can operate it as it sees fit.
I equate the forums to a "public square" where members of a community could go to talk about anything they want to talk about. Public speakers could get on a soap box and speak about what they wanted to speak about. One might be booed by those who did not like what you were talking about or speaking about, but that is a risk that one accepts by opening one's mouth.
Even in a public square, one should exercise restraint in what one says, because you are part of a community with "standards". If you violate the community's standards, then you can and should suffer the adverse consequences. You should also adhere to your own personal standards of conduct, morality, ethics, etc. when you chose to intereact with others, be it in a public square, on a forum, in your home, at work, etc. [assuming of course that you have any beyond "me, me, me"].
The golden rule is good to follow. So is the rule that if you have nothing good to say about someone, say nothing. Self restraint can go a long way to keeping our own conduct on the forums in compliance with the rules reiterated by Mr. Willis.
Nothwithstanding the above, if the rules result in the forums becoming dull and monotonous, many will leave.
Spirited intellectual debate over hobby happenings; tossing out hypotheticals and discussing same; challenging unfounded and unsupported assertions made by others; discussing differing aspects of the hobby; dissecting "coin deals" from the perspective of collectors, dealers and investors; discussing grading and encapsulation; discussing coin doctoring, etc. all generate substantial interest and emotions. It makes this place lively and interesting. The injection of non coin related banter ("i.e. imagining what the "Longacre Estate" estate looks like) into posts does the same.
I would like to see the forums remain interesting, lively and a place where people want to participate. However, it requires that participants play by the rules; and it requires our host to not make the place so vanilla and dull that no one wants to come out and play in this great "public square".
I remember the Open Forum before it was closed down. It got pretty wild and crazy with posts about lightening rod topics including politics, religion, etc. Some people posted some very low brow, low class, vulgar things on the OF. However it was a place where some really good discussions took place.
Ideally it would be great if our host would consider resurrecting the Open Forum and place some concrete rules on same (no sleazy pics, no profanity, no vicious personal attacks, etc.) and enforce them with vigor. A resurrected Open Forum would keep things very interesting and lively for those who wanted to play there; it would lessen the likelihood of the US Coin Forum and other related forums from getting out of control; and it would keep the CU Forums one of the best places for hobby participants to hang out. Of course, the time and expense of to our host of a resurrected Open Forum may simply not be worth it.
<< <i> I equate the forums to a "public square" where members of a community could go to talk about anything they want to talk about. Public speakers could get on a soap box and speak about what they wanted to speak about. One might be booed by those who did not like what you were talking about or speaking about, but that is a risk that one accepts by opening one's mouth.. >>
This is more like coming into someone's living room, and if you insult the host or the other guests, you are asked to leave.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i> I equate the forums to a "public square" where members of a community could go to talk about anything they want to talk about. Public speakers could get on a soap box and speak about what they wanted to speak about. One might be booed by those who did not like what you were talking about or speaking about, but that is a risk that one accepts by opening one's mouth.. >>
This is more like coming into someone's living room, and if you insult the host or the other guests, you are asked to leave. >>
In my opinion it’s more like being invited to a conference “for the education and sharing of information.” Once you are there, you are told that you are only allowed to praise the sponsor. Any other talk is considered offensive.
I suspect that if PCGS disclosed their “rules” up front, in their “Terms of Use”, there would be less people joining. I certainly would have had second thoughts, especially with rule number 7, which clearly stifles free exchange of ideas that I consider important.
I’ve supported PCGS from the beginning with a sustaining Platinum membership. I personally don’t mind the off-topic posts. In fact, I rather enjoy the wit and humor of many members here. I find it quite easy to ignore and skip posts that I am not interested in.
I am however, deeply disappointed with the Q&A forum. One of my first posts here was a Q&A asking if PCGS was considering grading of SCDs. I never received a response. As time progressed, it became apparent that PCGS never intended to support the Q&A forum. Many members have wasted time and energy posting questions to that black hole.
It would really sadden me to see this forum atrophy to just a select few of the (often jokingly called) "inner circle" of paying/submitting PCGS members, and I'm another collector who would be exiled if that becomes the policy here.
I do not submit coins myself, but have purchased a lot of PCGS slabbed coins that were submitted by others, and because of what I have learned on this forum over the past few years, now primarily buy only PCGS graded coins for my new purchases.
I have never intentionally been rude to others or out of order when posting, and as far as dealing with any problems with those who deliberately do/have, why not just warn them about their behavior (with a brief explanation of what rule they broke) the first time, and if they stubbornly continue to break that rule, disband them?
I never thought that growing old would happen so fast. - Jim
Quite noticeable in nearly all threads is our excellent ability to speak in the First Person. This is something Longacre's almost never guilty of Also, numismatists, scientists, authors and most professionals, often stick with facts and one will notice how factual their posts often are. As a matter of fact, they're chock full of TRUTH, not emotion.
Not a lot of U.S. Coins starts off with "I", except the Indian Head Coins, to my knowledge.
Armed with this "information", one may see why rules are easier to break than to keep...especially when I can't think of something useful to add except for my "feelings".
As for numismatics, how about reporting here :
What sort of change is in your pocket today ?
I currently have 4 quarters. Namely; a 1982 P Washington, 1998 D Washington, 2007 D Statehood (Wy), 2006 D Statehood (SD), 2001 D Roosevelt dime, and a 2004 D Jefferson Nickel commemorating Lewis and Clark's expedition with the Shoshone woman. It's called the "peace" nickel and is represented by a "handshake".
as for me, I just use this house as a daily journal.
These rules are going to have a chilling effect on speech, I believe. Not the ones on defamation or ad hominem type remarks, those are universal in practically every forum. I believe, though, that when one has constructive criticism, these rules are going to compel one to go elsewhere with that. Which, BTW, does raise an interesting question: namely, supposing, for example, I happen to criticize PCGS in other forums. So long as I don't rock the boat, here (e.g., so long as I'm all, "yes, yes, yes, arf, arf, arf," to everything PCGS-related, here), I'm OK, then, right? Somebody please clarify that one for me.
<< <i>These rules are going to have a chilling effect on speech, I believe. Not the ones on defamation or ad hominem type remarks, those are universal in practically every forum. I believe, though, that when one has constructive criticism, these rules are going to compel one to go elsewhere with that. Which, BTW, does raise an interesting question: namely, supposing, for example, I happen to criticize PCGS in other forums. So long as I don't rock the boat, here (e.g., so long as I'm all, "yes, yes, yes, arf, arf, arf," to everything PCGS-related, here), I'm OK, then, right? Somebody please clarify that one for me. >>
I disagree.
I've never seen construtive criticism squelched here. It might be true that some of the criticism shut down was meant constructively but generally this same criticism was being repeated ad nauseum before the hammer fell.
I don't mean to imply that I necessarily agree with everything (or anything) that goes on here, merely that I don't think many people will feel much re- luctance to state things as they see them.
Generally speaking if you avoid piling on you're probably safe to say almost anything within the confines of common sense and that is in adherance to the rules.
There's even a rule against modern bashing but frankly, I'm glad it isn't en- forced.
<< <i>I've never seen construtive criticism squelched here. It might be true that some of the criticism shut down was meant constructively but generally this same criticism was being repeated ad nauseum before the hammer fell.
I don't mean to imply that I necessarily agree with everything (or anything) that goes on here, merely that I don't think many people will feel much re- luctance to state things as they see them.
Generally speaking if you avoid piling on you're probably safe to say almost anything within the confines of common sense and that is in adherance to the rules. >>
Have you read the new rules? I just hope you're right, because I've basically always felt the same way you just said, and I'd hate to see any of that change for the worst.
Comments
<< <i>After I discovered this board and joined, read several posts and made numerous friends I decided to pay my fees and submit coins. Had I done it the opposite way I would have submitted many coins that didn't deserve to be submitted. I would have felt negative about that experience. I would think long and hard about limiting this board to dues paying members and dealers. In my example you would have cut off a paying member and I would guess that I am not the only one who was encouraged to join due to their participation in this boards. If you are currently satisfied with your rate of submissions then I agree limit board participation to paying members. If not then continue to find ways to make these boards a good marketing tool for the company. Having run a few companies one thing I know for sure is listen to your customers (what better way than a board) and don't make decisions based on emotion that can reflect on your bottom line.
Having said that I agree with the rules posted here however automatically banning someone for a first offense, especially one not made to incite might be a little heavy handed.
On a final note Don as I no longer submit coins or only through a dealer I still encourage friends, new collectors, and young collectors to visit your site and discuss at length with them the advantages of joining. I find irony in that a couple of dealers who recommend that only dues payers belong would have not found some new clients had I not joined and recommended them. Dealers be careful what you wish for. >>
Nicely put, IrishMike.
Also, this is not merely a situation where the non-paying members would be denied a benefit by not allowing them to post. I would venture to say that a number of non-payers provide more and better information than some paying members, so excluding non-payers would be to the detriment of the community as a whole.
and now I glance and see that the shareholders have no say as to what these boards do?
funny- who is paying the freight for the family at PCGS? I'm pretty sure that when a shareholder adds liquidity to the company somewhere down the line that $$ is filtered back into the pockets of those working for the share holder. To say that they have no say in a matter as to how the business is run is not a sound business tactic.
stock price was good today- good day to dump and move into a more profitable venture.
and I do believe that a board will listen to complaints fom share holders- that is how they normally vote on matters that make the business stronger- Buffet did not get to be top dog by not listening to his people..
have the new rules been submitted to the board for review and acceptance and thus finalized.
I know I never saw this until the other day..
Have a great evening all-
The K**** forum uses these types of moderators. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. I only stuck around for a few months.
<< <i>I am not going to reiterate my feelings on the BS&T-people sell more NGC and garbage there for PCGS reatail than they have ever before. >>
I think this is an example of comments for what some of these violations are based on. ( corrected the spelling on the word people) I do that too! lol
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
U.S. Army Veteran 1/11 ACR Fulda, Germany
That's all telling, Welcome to the Club...
I Think I will go else where as suggested...
Currently Listed: Nothing
Take Care, Dave
<< <i>I am not going to reiterate my feelings on the BS&T- peopel sell more NGC and garbage there for PCGS reatail than they have ever before.
and now I glance and see that the shareholders have no say as to what these boards do?
funny- who is paying the freight for the family at PCGS? I'm pretty sure that when a shareholder adds liquidity to the company somewhere down the line that $$ is filtered back into the pockets of those working for the share holder. To say that they have no say in a matter as to how the business is run is not a sound business tactic.
stock price was good today- good day to dump and move into a more profitable venture.
and I do believe that a board will listen to complaints fom share holders- that is how they normally vote on matters that make the business stronger- Buffet did not get to be top dog by not listening to his people..
have the new rules been submitted to the board for review and acceptance and thus finalized.
I know I never saw this until the other day..
Have a great evening all- >>
I was joking about the shareholder vote thing.
One could presumably put something out for a vote, but I don't see day-to-day operations as something requiring a shareholder vote nor board action. if the board got involved or the shareholders had to vote on something this small then nothing would ever get done.
(and the company would only need the board and not president/ceo) It's just not how things operate.
I was joking!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
I wouldnt hold your breath on that one.
<< <i>I am not going to reiterate my feelings on the BS&T- peopel sell more NGC and garbage there for PCGS reatail than they have ever before.
and now I glance and see that the shareholders have no say as to what these boards do?
funny- who is paying the freight for the family at PCGS? I'm pretty sure that when a shareholder adds liquidity to the company somewhere down the line that $$ is filtered back into the pockets of those working for the share holder. To say that they have no say in a matter as to how the business is run is not a sound business tactic.
stock price was good today- good day to dump and move into a more profitable venture.
and I do believe that a board will listen to complaints fom share holders- that is how they normally vote on matters that make the business stronger- Buffet did not get to be top dog by not listening to his people..
have the new rules been submitted to the board for review and acceptance and thus finalized.
I know I never saw this until the other day..
Have a great evening all- >>
Public shareholders have no say on minute, daily operations on businesses and to suggest otherwise is absurd. If you do not like the way the company is run (any company that is), you have two choices:
1. Elect directors who you believe will represent your views.
2. Sell your shares and forget about it.
<< <i>and now I glance and see that the shareholders have no say as to what these boards do? >>
most shareholder votes elect the board and ratify the auditing firm.
occaisionally, and especially in the last few years, there have been some pushes in the environmental and human right areas to get companies to work towards becmoing more aware and to consider the issues in their business.
example
These are high impact direction changes.
Also note: "Groups Contact 1,800 Investors Holding 58% of ExxonMobil Shares"
Generally, large individual and institutional investors hold the controlling votes. Small individual investors are a small voice.
I was anti-slabbing for 20 years before coming here. Having collected for 45 years, I never owned a PCGS coin until 2006. Now I recognize the value of having a reputable fee-based professional grading service. Without being able to participate on this forum, I'd never have become a platinum member or a strong advocate for PCGS as the premier standard in grading. So, this forum definitely does have an impact on PCGS's business, from my point of view.
Posting here, I've been able to identify some dealers that I will be able to work with in the future, and a few that I will feel free to avoid. I've benefited from the comments and threads that others have made about some of the dealer members here, both pro and con.
I've also made some friends in this forum. Sometimes, I find myself providing basic information that seems mundane to me, but it's (sometimes) of interest to someone else. That's the dynamic that makes this forum work, in my opinion. My little corner of the coin market has been made more vibrant as a result of the information flow around here. I hope it stays that way.
Regards, jmski
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>My goal here on the forum for 2010 is to keep my head down and mouth shut
Sounds like a good strategy.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>so how many "non coin related" threads are you guys allowed? This is like the 3rd thread that moves real coin threads down the list on to the 2nd page. Spare us. >>
If OnTopic-ness is going to be strictly enforced, and as the forum moves closer towards coins/tokens only convo., more and more people will complain when someone posts anything perceived as off topic (ex: definitely forum related administrative topics like this and "can't stay logged in" and "is this off topic" etc.) will get bashed.
however, where is there to post such things? I propose an "forum Q&A" or "forums complaints and suggestions" or some such where these things can be posted.
Even if they are not needed now.... if the forums move towards more OnTopic... I predict they eventually will be.
But for now.... there is no where else to post the discussions and PMs are not a viable solution.
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that." >>
No one probably cares what a YN from Nebraska thinks but here goes.
I don't know how many YN's there are out there who lurk or whatever but for me, I know EVERYTHING I have in this hobby (the people I know, the things I've learned, the opportunities I've had) has come from 2 sources. This forum and my dad. It was a 4th of July, YN giveaway, on this forum that got me hooked when I started posting here under my parents supervision when I was 11. There are not a lot of YN's who would either want or be able to pay to become members to post, ask questions, learn things, etc. when that same money could buy an actual coin. $49.95 is a lot for a YN, believe it or not.
I know technically that YN's aren't even supposed to be post here, but I am thankful that I have been able too. If YN's are the future of the hobby, does it benefit the hobby to purposefully exclude them? I do a column for our coin club newsletter called "How I started" and just about all the people I've interviewed all say they got started when they were kids. Some lost interest and came back, others never left. Either way, their interest started when they were kids. I don't live where there are major shows. I don't have the opportunity to exhibit, attend or mingle at those kind of events but I do get to do that here.
If the forum becomes members only, it might greatly reduce the opportunites new Yn's get that I and other YN's have enjoyed over the years because of the access to people and knowledge this forum has given them.
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
<< <i>I think it says volumes that the moderator locked that Willis' guy's thread, avoiding the poof. >>
I think it says that Don Willis wanted the thread locked and has nothing at all to do with a moderator. Why would a thread started by the president of PCGS be deleted unless he wanted it to be? Edited to add:
<< <i>
<< <i>I think it says volumes that the moderator locked that Willis' guy's thread, avoiding the poof. >>
I think it says that Don Willis wanted the thread locked and has nothing at all to do with a moderator. Why would a thread started by the president of PCGS be deleted unless he wanted it to be? >>
I thought it was a joke and a funny one at that
2008 17
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Did the Open Forum close in 2006?
There are currently 194 users logged in.
30133 users are registered to the Collectors Universe forum 10:00 am 01/05/10
U.S. 308,428,524 World 6,794,549,249 16:12 UTC (EST+5) Jan 05, 2010
Whatever you want to make of this tabloid of information, enjoy!
If you would like to be included in this list of devoted posters, please post.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I believe the open forum closed in (early) 2007. it was fun and has been missed. I also believe this caused some of the overflow on US coins forum. I love coins & cards, started collecting in 1967 or 68 and was also anti-slabbing until around 2004, found PCGS & PSA and still have quite a few coins and cards to submit , if it was not for the CU forums I would not have joined PSA/PCGS.
I also believe like others do that you have to have some fun on the forums. one cliche that comes to mind is: "all work and no play makes for a dull day" ( or however that saying goes). just my 2 cents.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think it says volumes that the moderator locked that Willis' guy's thread, avoiding the poof. >>
I think it says that Don Willis wanted the thread locked and has nothing at all to do with a moderator. Why would a thread started by the president of PCGS be deleted unless he wanted it to be? >>
OMG! That's seriously
<< <i> I think it says volumes that the moderator locked that Willis' guy's thread, avoiding the poof. >>
The Boss didn't want us posting any worn out brown wheaties in that one. (I'm guessing
By the way, Walmann, this coin is still one of the nicest specimens I've seen and was an awesome coin for my type set.
I must confess, though... I no longer own it.
That the OP has all upper case letters in his name, but the boss gets relegated to a lower case in his surname, in a major coin thread ought to be serious cause for alarm. It's like throwing a shoe at the president, or something, isn't it ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Edited to fix spelling errors and to state that after several years here on the boards, I've never had to resort to a rules list to determine if a posting was appropriate. I've always relied upon 'conversational common sense' and only posted what I would say to an enlightened collector in person. The OT comments/posts/threads never bothered me nearly us much as the uncivil and or flat out mean and ugly personal attacks. I'm not sorry to say good-bye to folks who engaged in that form of participation.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
<< <i>I'm troubled that Don could only come up with '9 Commandments' of posting. They will never make a movie about 9 Commandments. Couldn't we come up with one more so at least we have a nice round number of forum rules. Any publisher knows that nobody cares about the '9 rules' of anything...but if you have '10 rules' you can write a book on any topic with authority! >>
...10.....Don't rock the boat.....!!!!.......
<< <i>to state that after several years here on the boards, I've never had to resort to a rules list to determine if a posting was appropriate. I've always relied upon 'conversational common sense' and only posted what I would say to an enlightened collector in person. The OT comments/posts/threads never bothered me nearly us much as the uncivil and or flat out mean and ugly personal attacks. I'm not sorry to say good-bye to folks who engaged in that form of participation. >>
Right on, Greg! It's one thing to make a tongue in check comment or banter back to someone that you personally know. I've "busted" Boom several times about his pet 'gators, and coinguy1 about his scratchy slabs (but great coins inside), and we've all given our beloved Bear the business about his jelly doughnuts. These are just comments that you would not be embarrassed to say in public, in mixed company, or in front of your young children. We all know (or should know) the difference. As for posters who posted attacks, good riddance!
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
<< <i>2009 12
2008 17
2007 16
2006 24……….69 posters 2006 to 2009, 4 years, with 102 posts
2005 12
2004 8
2003 8
2002 7
2001 15 ……50 posters 2001 to 2005, 5 years, with 97 posts
Dirtybird Posts: 23 Joined: Dec 2009
Runningman Posts: 2 Joined: Dec 2009... blah, blah, blah and so on...
Leo >>
Hey Leo, you forgot to put yourself on the list.
<< <i>
<< <i>2009 12
2008 17
2007 16
2006 24……….69 posters 2006 to 2009, 4 years, with 102 posts
2005 12
2004 8
2003 8
2002 7
2001 15 ……50 posters 2001 to 2005, 5 years, with 97 posts
Dirtybird Posts: 23 Joined: Dec 2009
Runningman Posts: 2 Joined: Dec 2009... blah, blah, blah and so on...
Leo >>
Hey Leo, you forgot to put yourself on the list. >>
coinguy1 Posts: 11974 Joined: Aug 2002 4
Me Posts: 4006 Joined: Jun 2002 2
Cladking Posts: 34083 Joined: Apr 2002
No....I'm there....and I knew someone would notice.
There have been several others who have not posted to this thread yet but they have for similar threads.
What's up with that?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I have no problem with the announcement by Mr. Willis of the rules and the enforcement of same. PCGS is our host, pays the bills for the forums and rightfully can operate it as it sees fit.
I equate the forums to a "public square" where members of a community could go to talk about anything they want to talk about. Public speakers could get on a soap box and speak about what they wanted to speak about. One might be booed by those who did not like what you were talking about or speaking about, but that is a risk that one accepts by opening one's mouth.
Even in a public square, one should exercise restraint in what one says, because you are part of a community with "standards". If you violate the community's standards, then you can and should suffer the adverse consequences. You should also adhere to your own personal standards of conduct, morality, ethics, etc. when you chose to intereact with others, be it in a public square, on a forum, in your home, at work, etc. [assuming of course that you have any beyond "me, me, me"].
The golden rule is good to follow. So is the rule that if you have nothing good to say about someone, say nothing. Self restraint can go a long way to keeping our own conduct on the forums in compliance with the rules reiterated by Mr. Willis.
Nothwithstanding the above, if the rules result in the forums becoming dull and monotonous, many will leave.
Spirited intellectual debate over hobby happenings; tossing out hypotheticals and discussing same; challenging unfounded and unsupported assertions made by others; discussing differing aspects of the hobby; dissecting "coin deals" from the perspective of collectors, dealers and investors; discussing grading and encapsulation; discussing coin doctoring, etc. all generate substantial interest and emotions. It makes this place lively and interesting. The injection of non coin related banter ("i.e. imagining what the "Longacre Estate" estate looks like) into posts does the same.
I would like to see the forums remain interesting, lively and a place where people want to participate. However, it requires that participants play by the rules; and it requires our host to not make the place so vanilla and dull that no one wants to come out and play in this great "public square".
I remember the Open Forum before it was closed down. It got pretty wild and crazy with posts about lightening rod topics including politics, religion, etc. Some people posted some very low brow, low class, vulgar things on the OF. However it was a place where some really good discussions took place.
Ideally it would be great if our host would consider resurrecting the Open Forum and place some concrete rules on same (no sleazy pics, no profanity, no vicious personal attacks, etc.) and enforce them with vigor. A resurrected Open Forum would keep things very interesting and lively for those who wanted to play there; it would lessen the likelihood of the US Coin Forum and other related forums from getting out of control; and it would keep the CU Forums one of the best places for hobby participants to hang out. Of course, the time and expense of to our host of a resurrected Open Forum may simply not be worth it.
Hope everyone here has a great 2010.
<< <i>I was gone for a few days. What did I miss?
Some guy by the name of Willis spouttin' off about some rules and stuff...I think he's gonna get bammed by the mods...
<< <i>
I equate the forums to a "public square" where members of a community could go to talk about anything they want to talk about. Public speakers could get on a soap box and speak about what they wanted to speak about. One might be booed by those who did not like what you were talking about or speaking about, but that is a risk that one accepts by opening one's mouth.. >>
This is more like coming into someone's living room, and if you insult the host or the other guests, you are asked to leave.
<< <i>Did the Open Forum close in 2006?
I believe the open forum closed in (early) 2007. >>
It actually happened around December 15th, 2006. And I agree, it was quite entertaining.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I equate the forums to a "public square" where members of a community could go to talk about anything they want to talk about. Public speakers could get on a soap box and speak about what they wanted to speak about. One might be booed by those who did not like what you were talking about or speaking about, but that is a risk that one accepts by opening one's mouth.. >>
This is more like coming into someone's living room, and if you insult the host or the other guests, you are asked to leave. >>
In my opinion it’s more like being invited to a conference “for the education and sharing of information.” Once you are there, you are told that you are only allowed to praise the sponsor. Any other talk is considered offensive.
I suspect that if PCGS disclosed their “rules” up front, in their “Terms of Use”, there would be less people joining. I certainly would have had second thoughts, especially with rule number 7, which clearly stifles free exchange of ideas that I consider important.
I’ve supported PCGS from the beginning with a sustaining Platinum membership. I personally don’t mind the off-topic posts. In fact, I rather enjoy the wit and humor of many members here. I find it quite easy to ignore and skip posts that I am not interested in.
I am however, deeply disappointed with the Q&A forum. One of my first posts here was a Q&A asking if PCGS was considering grading of SCDs. I never received a response. As time progressed, it became apparent that PCGS never intended to support the Q&A forum. Many members have wasted time and energy posting questions to that black hole.
I do not submit coins myself, but have purchased a lot of PCGS slabbed coins that were submitted by others, and because of what I have learned on this forum over the past few years, now primarily buy only PCGS graded coins for my new purchases.
I have never intentionally been rude to others or out of order when posting, and as far as dealing with any problems with those who deliberately do/have, why not just warn them about their behavior (with a brief explanation of what rule they broke) the first time, and if they stubbornly continue to break that rule, disband them?
- Jim
This is something Longacre's almost never guilty of
Not a lot of U.S. Coins starts off with "I", except the Indian Head Coins, to my knowledge.
Armed with this "information", one may see why rules are easier to break than to keep...especially when I can't think of something useful to add except for my "feelings".
As for numismatics, how about reporting here :
What sort of change is in your pocket today ?
I currently have 4 quarters. Namely; a 1982 P Washington, 1998 D Washington, 2007 D Statehood (Wy), 2006 D Statehood (SD), 2001 D Roosevelt dime, and a 2004 D Jefferson Nickel commemorating Lewis and Clark's expedition with the Shoshone woman. It's called the "peace" nickel and is represented by a "handshake".
as for me, I just use this house as a daily journal.
Thank you and have a nice day.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
they should have to pay a fine !
<< <i>These rules are going to have a chilling effect on speech, I believe. Not the ones on defamation or ad hominem type remarks, those are universal in practically every forum. I believe, though, that when one has constructive criticism, these rules are going to compel one to go elsewhere with that. Which, BTW, does raise an interesting question: namely, supposing, for example, I happen to criticize PCGS in other forums. So long as I don't rock the boat, here (e.g., so long as I'm all, "yes, yes, yes, arf, arf, arf," to everything PCGS-related, here), I'm OK, then, right? Somebody please clarify that one for me.
>>
I disagree.
I've never seen construtive criticism squelched here. It might be true that
some of the criticism shut down was meant constructively but generally this
same criticism was being repeated ad nauseum before the hammer fell.
I don't mean to imply that I necessarily agree with everything (or anything)
that goes on here, merely that I don't think many people will feel much re-
luctance to state things as they see them.
Generally speaking if you avoid piling on you're probably safe to say almost
anything within the confines of common sense and that is in adherance to
the rules.
There's even a rule against modern bashing but frankly, I'm glad it isn't en-
forced.
<< <i>I think PCGS could make good money off these new rules ; if a poster breaks them and wants to continue posting -
they should have to pay a fine ! >>
Keep the heretic in the flock, just fine him or her. I believe this has possibilities...
Please. Thank you.
Coins
PS PCGS
<< <i>I've never seen construtive criticism squelched here. It might be true that
some of the criticism shut down was meant constructively but generally this
same criticism was being repeated ad nauseum before the hammer fell.
I don't mean to imply that I necessarily agree with everything (or anything)
that goes on here, merely that I don't think many people will feel much re-
luctance to state things as they see them.
Generally speaking if you avoid piling on you're probably safe to say almost
anything within the confines of common sense and that is in adherance to
the rules. >>
Have you read the new rules? I just hope you're right, because I've basically always felt the same way you just said, and I'd hate to see any of that change for the worst.