If non-PCGS members are to be banned from these forums, then you run the definite risk of alienating them from PCGS entirely. If they are PCGS graded coin collectors, then they could quit collecting entirely (or Heaven forbid, go "across the street"). If they do either of these, then the dealers they buy from will be losing business and money. If the dealers who submit coins to PCGS, lose their PCGS collectors, then they would either reduce their submissions accordingly, or quit submitting coins at all. This would be disastrous to everyone involved.
'Tis better to keep the forums open to the public, but with clear rules and no-nonsense repercussions for those who break said rules.
>>>>> Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that.
>>
I would hope that you guys think really hard about that before implementing a members only approach to this forum. Remember, even if not a current PCGS member, most of the posters here aren't exactly anonymous.
I first joined this forum after being a lurker for quite awhile. The knowledge and relationships I built here with fellow collectors is one of the main reasons I later joined the PCGS Collector's Club. Had I not be able to be part of the forum in the beginning, either as a lurker or as a poster, it's quite possible I may not have ever become one of your customers. >>
<< <i>I don't submit coins for grading but I have the silver membership out of appreciation for this forum. MJ >>
Nice testimonial, MJ. I love DW for all that he does for this hobby/business!!!! I did have a 20 minute interview at the Fall Balto Show that he graciously sucumbed to.
I prefer PCGS slabs and have submitted to PCGS many times, however, I submit through a dealer friend and never directly. I hope they don't make this a paid-member only board as I have been coming here for years (but just recently started to post).
<< <i>I don't submit coins for grading but I have the silver membership out of appreciation for this forum. MJ >>
Nice testimonial, MJ. I love DW for all that he does for this hobby/business!!!! I did have a 20 minute interview at the Fall Balto Show that he graciously sucumbed to.
One can disagree with PCGS for many things. One thing that would be hard to disagree with is the fact that Don Willis is a gentleman, a genuinely nice person and has a high coin IQ/acumen. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Regardless of my own personal opinions about whether they should do it or not, I can easily see the viewpoint of making access to these boards by membership only, even if it did reduce the number of people who participate in it and the amount of information that is contributed.
Take a step back, imagine you're in PCGS' shoes, and try to look at this from their perspective:
PCGS is a for-profit company. They provide services and they rightfully charge for them. Besides being fun, the insight and information we share on these boards deliver value to us. Providing the boards involves time and expense, so why should PCGS not charge for it -- whether in the form of an access fee or requiring a Collector's Club membership? >>
Dennis, I would argue that PCGS derives ten-fold value from the ecxhange of ideas and infromation that they derive from those exhcanges than what it costs them to offer up the forum services for free to the general public.
Further, I would argue that by censoring posts and/or limiting access to only PCGS customers, that they will have effectively crushed the diversity of Numismatic ideas and knowledge that currently prosper here.
I cannot think of any other numismatic web site that offers the level of activity and diversity of ideas expressed on PCGS! If Don and company wish to censor the content so as to focus to just PCGS customers then that is their prerogative. However, IMO, that is a bad idea that will only impair the corporate PCGS message it is providing this forum in the first place!
EDITED: for clarity!
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Funny how I stopped using the guys across the street when they stopped showing the pop reports. I now only send to PCGS through dealers because Im not a dealer. I sure wouldnt like to be removed from this great forum just because Im not a dealer/member. Derek
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that."
I am REALLY happy to read Don's posted rules. I believe that the rules are fair and will be fairly enforced. PCGS offers us coin weenies a tremendous forum here to mingle and talk coins and get some info from a full spectrum of coin people, from newbies to some of the real pro's. I know that I have gotten slack from pointing out a few of the blatant violators when mentioning that this is a coin forum and some of us really want to talk coins, but some of us really come here to talk and learn more about coins.
PCGS has always given me the room to post my thoughts and they are not always pro PCGS, but I believe that they are always based on some firm footing so no one can say Don and the other guys (and gal - Carol) are unfair, but enough is enough. Too many members think this is an internet playground that they can "bust out" whenever they want. WRONG. It is the best coin forum on the net and we should all thank PCGS for keeping this site going. Lets get back to the hobby we share and are here for. Thanks Don, from one coin weenie to another
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that."
Wondercoin >>
I agree. >>
Rule 1) This is not a public forum. This is a PCGS forum paid for by PCGS and provided for PCGS customers to exchange information regarding collecting US coins. We make the rules. If you don't like it go somewhere else.
For a long time, I have always been annoyed by the thought that there are dealers who use these boards soly to make sales. If they don't post on a regular basis, they shouldn't be allowed to see/look-in/feed on the interests collectors are sharing amongst themselves. If a dealer can't get on even footings with collectors, they should not be bought from or sold to. Dealers who have made themselves known here and post regularly, have proven themselves countless times. But than again, maybe this is the reason for a seclusive rule.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Main Entry: au·tom·a·ton Pronunciation: ȯ-ˈtä-mə-tən, -mə-ˌtän Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural au·tom·atons or au·tom·a·ta -mə-tə, -mə-ˌtä Etymology: Latin, from Greek, neuter of automatos Date: 1645 1 : a mechanism that is relatively self-operating; especially : robot 2 : a machine or control mechanism designed to follow automatically a predetermined sequence of operations or respond to encoded instructions 3 : an individual who acts in a mechanical fashion
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
There is quite a difference between "open" boards and boards with "anonymous posters" - no? I am in favor of removing anonymous postings... I think it would cut back on a huge % of the mean spirited postings and improve the "community" spirit here. Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
>>>>> Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that. >>
I am REALLY happy to read Don's posted rules. I believe that the rules are fair and will be fairly enforced. PCGS offers us coin weenies a tremendous forum here to mingle and talk coins and get some info from a full spectrum of coin people, from newbies to some of the real pro's. I know that I have gotten slack from pointing out a few of the blatant violators when mentioning that this is a coin forum and some of us really want to talk coins, but some of us really come here to talk and learn more about coins.
PCGS has always given me the room to post my thoughts and they are not always pro PCGS, but I believe that they are always based on some firm footing so no one can say Don and the other guys (and gal - Carol) are unfair, but enough is enough. Too many members think this is an internet playground that they can "bust out" whenever they want. WRONG. It is the best coin forum on the net and we should all thank PCGS for keeping this site going. Lets get back to the hobby we share and are here for. Thanks Don, from one coin weenie to another >>
Oh man.
This place is tame compared to other places.
people aren't perfect and problems will arise. It's just a matter of how it's handled. I've been satisfied with the way it's been run. However, moving it more towards coins and away from bugs is a good thing.
Boards always experience problems with newbies joining and the learned members complaining (and leaving).
<< <i>I think if everyone had the power to bam another person for 24 hours, we could have a grand old time. >>
And after 24 hours not many of us would be left!
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
My viewpoint centers around civility between forum members. If we risk losing forum members like cladking, I am certainly open to considering the "other argument". Perhaps there is a way to both achieve civility and keep members like Cladking? I am always open to coming up with the "right" solution.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Methinks CladKing has provided the most cogent research results on modern clad series than any one or any entity that I know of here. It would be an egregious error for the folks at CU to silence this source of modern knowledge! t
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that."
Wondercoin >>
That's 2 big for me!
Ken >>
I would probably never have joined the Collectors Club 2 years ago if I hadn't stumbled upon this forum. I can't recall what I Googled, but it had an old thread near the top and I instantly realized how much I could learn here.
Thanks for posting these rules Don. I hope they will stay locked at the top for all new members to see, as well as to reiterate to all of us current members who may forget once in a while.
Methinks CladKing has provided the most cogent research results on modern clad series than any one or any entity that I know of here. It would be an egregious error for the folks at CU to silence this source of modern knowledge! t >>
Its not about silencing anyone in particular at all......................its about having this forum be for pcgs members, dealers and subscribers........if you like it here , JOIN !!
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that."
Wondercoin >>
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
I like these boards. And I am currently a "PCGS" customer. But I was not always a PCGS customer and if CladKing is is the only example of one user here who would be denied posting priviliges then I suspect that the majority of us who post here would have our posting priviliges revoked under the "New Rules". And while some who post here support this philosophy, they do not understand the detriment to their collecting strategy that such a policy of isolation will invoke.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
I think if they restrict membership, you're going to see some folks pony up the money to join PCGS. I feel for them, but for the folks who have 10,000 posts here, basically live here, and have never paid a penny to PCGS for years...well cry me a river...you got a free service and entertainment for years.
I mean face it, the knowledge gained on this forum has made me money. Personally. And most of you can say the same. It's worth a PCGS price for a year, you make more than that back I would think.
A truly interesting thread. I'm also a lurker and occasional poster (usually to share my collection or new purchase), but not a paying member. I do get the email newsletter, not sure if that puts me in the 'subscriber' class. My two cents on if this board truly becomes pay only - it may go the same way as sites like Classmates.com. You will lose lots of valuable knowlegeable posters and input, along with traffic. Please say that this will not become the only way to post or lurk here.
<< <i>I mean face it, the knowledge gained on this forum has made me money. Personally. And most of you can say the same. It's worth a PCGS price for a year, you make more than that back I would think. >>
You must keep in mind not everyone here is a dealer or looking for that quick dollar. For me, and I'm sure many others, it is a hobby.
<< <i>I mean face it, the knowledge gained on this forum has made me money. Personally. And most of you can say the same. It's worth a PCGS price for a year, you make more than that back I would think. >>
You must keep in mind not everyone here is a dealer or looking for that quick dollar. For me, and I'm sure many others, it is a hobby. >>
That's correct.
"I feel for them, but for the folks who have 10,000 posts here, basically live here, and have never paid a penny to PCGS for years...well cry me a river...you got a free service and entertainment for years."
Entertainment? No, I'm here to learn about coins and coin collecting, and hopefully pass along knowledge to others as needed, as I said earlier. I'm not into graded coins or grading coins, so I have no need for the service. If PCGS wants to ban me because of this, no need to cry a river, it's their forum and their rules. I hope they don't. But if they do want to charge a small fee just for the forum service, I will do that.
When I first came aboard this forum, I too was told I needed to have thick skin to survive - which I sadly learned was true. However, I tried to remain professional and positive whenever I posted something, and personally, that has served me well. I have learned a lot, gotten to share and see some amazing coins, and as Ilini said, I have met some wonderful people on these boards.
And I agree with what Wondercoin said, I like the idea of an open forum but WITHOUT anonymity. I too have seen many demeaning and offensive comments to others' posts which made me cringe. I think each of us should be held accountable for our words and posts. So I VERY MUCH appreciate Don posting these rules and hope this forum will be even better for it.
And in response to Leothelyon's comments about dealers, I am a dealer as well as a collector, and even though I mostly post on these boards as a collector, I believe dealers have some good insights and knowledge, as well as a different perspective, to share -and from what I've read most are not self-serving. Just as there are dealers who may post here just to make more sales, there are also collectors who post here who have their own self-serving agenda as well, so banning dealers IMO will eliminate a huge resource of knowledge and intellect.
So, whether this forum should remain open or limited, for collectors only or include dealers, as long as everyone is respectful and equally held accountable, I think there is room here for all coin people to ask questions and share their knowledge.
<< <i>I mean face it, the knowledge gained on this forum has made me money. Personally. And most of you can say the same. It's worth a PCGS price for a year, you make more than that back I would think. >>
And as for your own individual gain, imagine the countless dollar$ that our PCGS hosts have made from providing us their "free"services over the years? I think that PCGS has profited more than ten-times over from providing these boards to the generale public than they would have from charging only PCGS customers a subscripton for same!
Think about it! If PCGS limited itself to customers only and if the competition allowed all-comers, would PCGS still be the leading TPG?
If you answer this hypotheitcal question honestly, then you know that PCGS would be in dire straits otherwise!
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>Sounds like they are trying to class themselves up???? >>
Look, I don't work for PCGS, but I think that every time that you or I post on these boards we add to the value of PCGS and the community that read these boards. If PCGS wants to limit the posters to subscribers/customers only, then it is to their own detriment that they do so.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>imagine the countless dollar$ that our PCGS hosts have made from providing us their "free"services over the years? I think that PCGS has profited more than ten-times over from providing these boards to the general public than they would have from charging only PCGS customers a subscription for same! >>
I am tremendously doubtful of this statement's accuracy. I believe that most people -- me included -- tend to greatly underestimate ALL of the costs of maintaining a website, the servers and other hardware, the programmers, and stuff I haven't even thought of, to keep it all running. As an avid and enthusiastic collector who of course wants to receive as much stuff as possible for as little cost as possible, I admit that I also like to point to a "better for everyone" idealized value that this venue's collective knowledge-sharing generates. But as a cold realist I also suspect it is wildly inaccurate to connect the dots between these message boards and have it form a picture of revenue streams that are exponentially greater than the overhead costs. It sounds nice and it makes us feel good, but I fully believe -- and this is just a guess -- that if we were privy to the number-crunching that PCGS executives have no doubt already done on this portion of their business, the bottom line would in fact be red. I for one am hugely grateful for what we've been lucky to have so far.
If the forum is banned for too many breaking the rules it would be very unfair to the rest of us. The forum is a privilege not a right for us and needs to be respected.
Winner of the "You Suck!" award March 17, 2010 by LanLord, doh, 123cents and Bear.
>>>>> Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that. >>
It looks like I'll be gone as well. >>
Ditto...!
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
I will go along with whatever Pcgs decides on the membership idea, I lean towards keeping it free, but doesn't really matter to me.
I know there is a good amount of information that is brought to these boards by members and non-members, and this includes all the forums that PCGS or PSA provides, but as was said earlier they make the rules and we have to abide by them.
I do believe that anonymous posters should be removed, I was not aware there were to many anonymous posters, I mean PCGS/PSA have my home address/Ph number/CC number/ ect ect. JMHO
<< <i>imagine the countless dollar$ that our PCGS hosts have made from providing us their "free"services over the years? I think that PCGS has profited more than ten-times over from providing these boards to the general public than they would have from charging only PCGS customers a subscription for same! >>
I am tremendously doubtful of this statement's accuracy. I believe that most people -- me included -- tend to greatly underestimate ALL of the costs of maintaining a website, the servers and other hardware, the programmers, and stuff I haven't even thought of, to keep it all running. As an avid and enthusiastic collector who of course wants to receive as much stuff as possible for as little cost as possible, I admit that I also like to point to a "better for everyone" idealized value that this venue's collective knowledge-sharing generates. But as a cold realist I also suspect it is wildly inaccurate to connect the dots between these message boards and have it form a picture of revenue streams that are exponentially greater than the overhead costs. It sounds nice and it makes us feel good, but I fully believe -- and this is just a guess -- that if we were privy to the number-crunching that PCGS executives have no doubt already done on this portion of their business, the bottom line would in fact be red. I for one am hugely grateful for what we've been lucky to have so far. >>
I could be wrong but I don't think the cost to run this forum is all that high. The programmers that support it also support the registry program and PCGS's general web site so the costs are shared across all the platforms.
There are many, many coin forums that are not owned by big business and they run just fine and provide useful information. I'm sure that those folks who could NOT post here would gravitate to those forums for their coin information and or sharing. Some of the posters would represent a huge loss.
From a financial aspect, I DO know that these forums and THIS PARTICULAR forum has had a HUGE impact on how I spend my money and IMO to limit it to Collectors Club Members and Dealers only would be a tragedy. Maybe not tomorrow but certainly in the years to come.
Ask yourself a straight forward question:Would you pay $49.95 just for the priviledge of posting to a coin forum? Personally, I would not since there are so many free forums available. Good, bad or indifferent, they are out there and many folks already use them. I may lurk, but I certainly would not join simply for the privilege of having my voice heard.
The one good aspect about this particular forum is the diverse attitudes and opinions of ALL its members. You may not agree with some of them at times and you may not like some of them but its what keeps this forum ACTIVE. An ACTIVE forum is a GOOD forum. An inactive forum is a dead forum which doe not attract new posters. This is the PRIMARY reason I hang out here, the forum is ACTIVE. The forum ATS is only quasi-active. Other coin forums are active but only to the point of two maybe three NEW posts a day.
I think charging to use this forum will NOT be a good idea. If PCGS wants to eliminate anonymity, then person profile information should be added according to the sign up information. Verifiable First Name and Last Name in a field that is not editable by the user. Maybe that would work.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Honestly, PCGS should pay some members to post. The value many of them bring keeps me reading, and joining and submitting. Without this forum I would never have joined and spent the $50K on submissions I have spent.
BTW - This message board software is off the shelf, its nothing special, nor expensive, nor hard. The bandwidth is probably the most expensive part.
Many of the new rules do not violate any of these. I think it is only fair to people who come here that they are duly notified of what they can and can’t say and what they can and can’t think here.
As far as restricting posts to paying members only, have you noticed the advertisements at the top of bottom of every page? I suspect that the amount of money they charge these companies is based on the message board traffic. Every time you click one of the messages to read or respond to it, a "cha-ching" sound is heard by PCGS.
<< <i>Restricting this to PCGS members only would be silly. Is this about Helping new collectors or about showing off high end plastic?? By telling new collectors they have to sign up with PCGS to educate themselves in numismatics is ridiculous. Such things should be free. >>
I'm another person who stumbled onto these boards as a result of searching some arcane string of words related to a very specific question about Lincoln cents.
Had I been forced to pay to participate in the forum, I likely would not have and probably would have gone away. At some later point, I signed up as a platinum-level member.
Sometimes it's good to provide a free service that can help develop a customer base over the long term.
Me at the Springfield coin show: 60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Comments
If non-PCGS members are to be banned from these forums, then you run the definite risk of alienating them from PCGS entirely. If they are PCGS graded coin collectors, then they could quit collecting entirely (or Heaven forbid, go "across the street"). If they do either of these, then the dealers they buy from will be losing business and money. If the dealers who submit coins to PCGS, lose their PCGS collectors, then they would either reduce their submissions accordingly, or quit submitting coins at all. This would be disastrous to everyone involved.
'Tis better to keep the forums open to the public, but with clear rules and no-nonsense repercussions for those who break said rules.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
>>>>> Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that.
>>
I would hope that you guys think really hard about that before implementing a members only approach to this forum. Remember, even if not a current PCGS member, most of the posters here aren't exactly anonymous.
I first joined this forum after being a lurker for quite awhile. The knowledge and relationships I built here with fellow collectors is one of the main reasons I later joined the PCGS Collector's Club. Had I not be able to be part of the forum in the beginning, either as a lurker or as a poster, it's quite possible I may not have ever become one of your customers. >>
I agree. >>
Same here
Joe
<< <i>I don't submit coins for grading but I have the silver membership out of appreciation for this forum. MJ >>
Nice testimonial, MJ.
I love DW for all that he does for this hobby/business!!!!
I did have a 20 minute interview at the Fall Balto Show that he graciously sucumbed to.
ksteeleader called me a brown noser!
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't submit coins for grading but I have the silver membership out of appreciation for this forum. MJ >>
Nice testimonial, MJ.
I love DW for all that he does for this hobby/business!!!!
I did have a 20 minute interview at the Fall Balto Show that he graciously sucumbed to.
ksteeleader called me a brown noser! >>
One can disagree with PCGS for many things. One thing that would be hard to disagree with is the fact that Don Willis is a gentleman, a genuinely nice person and has a high coin IQ/acumen. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Regardless of my own personal opinions about whether they should do it or not, I can easily see the viewpoint of making access to these boards by membership only, even if it did reduce the number of people who participate in it and the amount of information that is contributed.
Take a step back, imagine you're in PCGS' shoes, and try to look at this from their perspective:
PCGS is a for-profit company. They provide services and they rightfully charge for them. Besides being fun, the insight and information we share on these boards deliver value to us. Providing the boards involves time and expense, so why should PCGS not charge for it -- whether in the form of an access fee or requiring a Collector's Club membership? >>
Dennis, I would argue that PCGS derives ten-fold value from the ecxhange of ideas and infromation that they derive from those exhcanges than what it costs them to offer up the forum services for free to the general public.
Further, I would argue that by censoring posts and/or limiting access to only PCGS customers, that they will have effectively crushed the diversity of Numismatic ideas and knowledge that currently prosper here.
I cannot think of any other numismatic web site that offers the level of activity and diversity of ideas expressed on PCGS! If Don and company wish to censor the content so as to focus to just PCGS customers then that is their prerogative. However, IMO, that is a bad idea that will only impair the corporate PCGS message it is providing this forum in the first place!
EDITED: for clarity!
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BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
What about shareholders?
<< <i>Don:
What about shareholders? >>
I'm not one, but
Good Question!
Edit: Do shareholders get to vote on any of these changes?
Derek
EAC 6024
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that."
Wondercoin >>
That's 2 big
Ken
My Washington Type B/C Set
I am REALLY happy to read Don's posted rules.
I believe that the rules are fair and will be fairly enforced.
PCGS offers us coin weenies a tremendous forum here to mingle and
talk coins and get some info from a full spectrum of coin people, from newbies
to some of the real pro's. I know that I have gotten slack from pointing out a few
of the blatant violators when mentioning that this is a coin forum and some of us
really want to talk coins, but some of us really come here to talk and learn more about coins.
PCGS has always given me the room to post my thoughts and they are not always pro PCGS, but
I believe that they are always based on some firm footing so no one can say Don and the other
guys (and gal - Carol) are unfair, but enough is enough. Too many members think this is an internet
playground that they can "bust out" whenever they want. WRONG. It is the best coin forum on the
net and we should all thank PCGS for keeping this site going.
Lets get back to the hobby we share and are here for.
Thanks Don, from one coin weenie to another
<< <i>
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that."
Wondercoin >>
I agree. >>
Rule 1) This is not a public forum. This is a PCGS forum paid for by PCGS and provided for PCGS customers to exchange information regarding collecting US coins. We make the rules. If you don't like it go somewhere else.
For a long time, I have always been annoyed by the thought that there are dealers who use these boards soly to make sales. If they don't post on a regular basis, they shouldn't be allowed to see/look-in/feed on the interests collectors are sharing amongst themselves. If a dealer can't get on even footings with collectors, they should not be bought from or sold to. Dealers who have made themselves known here and post regularly, have proven themselves countless times. But than again, maybe this is the reason for a seclusive rule.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Main Entry: au·tom·a·ton
Pronunciation: ȯ-ˈtä-mə-tən, -mə-ˌtän
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural au·tom·atons or au·tom·a·ta -mə-tə, -mə-ˌtä
Etymology: Latin, from Greek, neuter of automatos
Date: 1645
1 : a mechanism that is relatively self-operating; especially : robot
2 : a machine or control mechanism designed to follow automatically a predetermined sequence of operations or respond to encoded instructions
3 : an individual who acts in a mechanical fashion
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
There is quite a difference between "open" boards and boards with "anonymous posters" - no? I am in favor of removing anonymous postings... I think it would cut back on a huge % of the mean spirited postings and improve the "community" spirit here. Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
<< <i>
>>>>> Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that.
>>
It looks like I'll be gone as well.
<< <i>Guess there was some fireworks here today.
I am REALLY happy to read Don's posted rules.
I believe that the rules are fair and will be fairly enforced.
PCGS offers us coin weenies a tremendous forum here to mingle and
talk coins and get some info from a full spectrum of coin people, from newbies
to some of the real pro's. I know that I have gotten slack from pointing out a few
of the blatant violators when mentioning that this is a coin forum and some of us
really want to talk coins, but some of us really come here to talk and learn more about coins.
PCGS has always given me the room to post my thoughts and they are not always pro PCGS, but
I believe that they are always based on some firm footing so no one can say Don and the other
guys (and gal - Carol) are unfair, but enough is enough. Too many members think this is an internet
playground that they can "bust out" whenever they want. WRONG. It is the best coin forum on the
net and we should all thank PCGS for keeping this site going.
Lets get back to the hobby we share and are here for.
Thanks Don, from one coin weenie to another
Oh man.
This place is tame compared to other places.
people aren't perfect and problems will arise. It's just a matter of how it's handled. I've been satisfied with the way it's been run. However, moving it more towards coins and away from bugs is a good thing.
Boards always experience problems with newbies joining and the learned members complaining (and leaving).
there is only one forum space for all.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I think if everyone had the power to bam another person for 24 hours, we could have a grand old time. >>
And after 24 hours not many of us would be left!
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Wondercoin
Methinks CladKing has provided the most cogent research results on modern clad series than any one or any entity that I know of here. It would be an egregious error for the folks at CU to silence this source of modern knowledge!
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<< <i>
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that."
Wondercoin >>
That's 2 big
Ken >>
I would probably never have joined the Collectors Club 2 years ago if I hadn't stumbled upon this forum.
I can't recall what I Googled, but it had an old thread near the top and I instantly realized how much I could learn here.
Thanks for posting these rules Don. I hope they will stay locked at the top for all new members to see, as well as to
reiterate to all of us current members who may forget once in a while.
Happy New Year!
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
and regarding excluded or not....
Would they grandfather in people?
<< <i>
Methinks CladKing has provided the most cogent research results on modern clad series than any one or any entity that I know of here. It would be an egregious error for the folks at CU to silence this source of modern knowledge!
Its not about silencing anyone in particular at all......................its about having this forum be for pcgs members, dealers and subscribers........if you like it here , JOIN !!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that."
Wondercoin >>
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
<< <i>
<< <i>I think if everyone had the power to bam another person for 24 hours, we could have a grand old time. >>
And after 24 hours not many of us would be left!
At that point, the Coin Forum would look more like the Stamp Forum
Steve
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<< <i>
<< <i>Don:
What about shareholders? >>
I'm not one, but
Good Question!
Edit: Do shareholders get to vote on any of these changes? >>
Shareholders, by definition, are silent partners who contribute money only and have no direct say in the day-to-day operation of a company.
Free Trial
Wondercoin
I think if they restrict membership, you're going to see some folks pony up the money to join PCGS. I feel for them, but for the folks who have 10,000 posts here, basically
live here, and have never paid a penny to PCGS for years...well cry me a river...you got a free service and entertainment for years.
Free Trial
that back I would think.
Free Trial
Don't mind the civility rules at all...
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
<< <i>I mean face it, the knowledge gained on this forum has made me money. Personally. And most of you can say the same. It's worth a PCGS price for a year, you make more than
that back I would think. >>
You must keep in mind not everyone here is a dealer or looking for that quick dollar. For me, and I'm sure many others, it is a hobby.
<< <i>
<< <i>I mean face it, the knowledge gained on this forum has made me money. Personally. And most of you can say the same. It's worth a PCGS price for a year, you make more than
that back I would think. >>
You must keep in mind not everyone here is a dealer or looking for that quick dollar. For me, and I'm sure many others, it is a hobby. >>
That's correct.
"I feel for them, but for the folks who have 10,000 posts here, basically
live here, and have never paid a penny to PCGS for years...well cry me a river...you got a free service and entertainment for years."
Entertainment? No, I'm here to learn about coins and coin collecting, and hopefully pass along knowledge to others as needed, as I said earlier. I'm not into graded coins or grading coins, so I have no need for the service. If PCGS wants to ban me because of this, no need to cry a river, it's their forum and their rules. I hope they don't. But if they do want to charge a small fee just for the forum service, I will do that.
And I agree with what Wondercoin said, I like the idea of an open forum but WITHOUT anonymity. I too have seen many demeaning and offensive comments to others' posts which made me cringe. I think each of us should be held accountable for our words and posts. So I VERY MUCH appreciate Don posting these rules and hope this forum will be even better for it.
And in response to Leothelyon's comments about dealers, I am a dealer as well as a collector, and even though I mostly post on these boards as a collector, I believe dealers have some good insights and knowledge, as well as a different perspective, to share -and from what I've read most are not self-serving. Just as there are dealers who may post here just to make more sales, there are also collectors who post here who have their own self-serving agenda as well, so banning dealers IMO will eliminate a huge resource of knowledge and intellect.
So, whether this forum should remain open or limited, for collectors only or include dealers, as long as everyone is respectful and equally held accountable, I think there is room here for all coin people to ask questions and share their knowledge.
The Penny Lady®
<< <i>I mean face it, the knowledge gained on this forum has made me money. Personally. And most of you can say the same. It's worth a PCGS price for a year, you make more than
that back I would think. >>
And as for your own individual gain, imagine the countless dollar$ that our PCGS hosts have made from providing us their "free"services over the years? I think that PCGS has profited more than ten-times over from providing these boards to the generale public than they would have from charging only PCGS customers a subscripton for same!
Think about it! If PCGS limited itself to customers only and if the competition allowed all-comers, would PCGS still be the leading TPG?
If you answer this hypotheitcal question honestly, then you know that PCGS would be in dire straits otherwise!
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<< <i>Sounds like they are trying to class themselves up???? >>
Look, I don't work for PCGS, but I think that every time that you or I post on these boards we add to the value of PCGS and the community that read these boards. If PCGS wants to limit the posters to subscribers/customers only, then it is to their own detriment that they do so.
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<< <i>imagine the countless dollar$ that our PCGS hosts have made from providing us their "free"services over the years? I think that PCGS has profited more than ten-times over from providing these boards to the general public than they would have from charging only PCGS customers a subscription for same! >>
I am tremendously doubtful of this statement's accuracy. I believe that most people -- me included -- tend to greatly underestimate ALL of the costs of maintaining a website, the servers and other hardware, the programmers, and stuff I haven't even thought of, to keep it all running. As an avid and enthusiastic collector who of course wants to receive as much stuff as possible for as little cost as possible, I admit that I also like to point to a "better for everyone" idealized value that this venue's collective knowledge-sharing generates. But as a cold realist I also suspect it is wildly inaccurate to connect the dots between these message boards and have it form a picture of revenue streams that are exponentially greater than the overhead costs. It sounds nice and it makes us feel good, but I fully believe -- and this is just a guess -- that if we were privy to the number-crunching that PCGS executives have no doubt already done on this portion of their business, the bottom line would in fact be red. I for one am hugely grateful for what we've been lucky to have so far.
<< <i>
<< <i>
>>>>> Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that.
>>
It looks like I'll be gone as well. >>
Ditto...!
QN
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
Hoard the keys.
I know there is a good amount of information that is brought to these boards by members and non-members, and this includes all the forums that PCGS or PSA provides, but as was said earlier they make the rules and we have to abide by them.
I do believe that anonymous posters should be removed, I was not aware there were to many anonymous posters, I mean PCGS/PSA have my home address/Ph number/CC number/ ect ect. JMHO
<< <i>
<< <i>imagine the countless dollar$ that our PCGS hosts have made from providing us their "free"services over the years? I think that PCGS has profited more than ten-times over from providing these boards to the general public than they would have from charging only PCGS customers a subscription for same! >>
I am tremendously doubtful of this statement's accuracy. I believe that most people -- me included -- tend to greatly underestimate ALL of the costs of maintaining a website, the servers and other hardware, the programmers, and stuff I haven't even thought of, to keep it all running. As an avid and enthusiastic collector who of course wants to receive as much stuff as possible for as little cost as possible, I admit that I also like to point to a "better for everyone" idealized value that this venue's collective knowledge-sharing generates. But as a cold realist I also suspect it is wildly inaccurate to connect the dots between these message boards and have it form a picture of revenue streams that are exponentially greater than the overhead costs. It sounds nice and it makes us feel good, but I fully believe -- and this is just a guess -- that if we were privy to the number-crunching that PCGS executives have no doubt already done on this portion of their business, the bottom line would in fact be red. I for one am hugely grateful for what we've been lucky to have so far. >>
I could be wrong but I don't think the cost to run this forum is all that high. The programmers that support it also support the registry program and PCGS's general web site so the costs are shared across all the platforms.
There are many, many coin forums that are not owned by big business and they run just fine and provide useful information. I'm sure that those folks who could NOT post here would gravitate to those forums for their coin information and or sharing. Some of the posters would represent a huge loss.
From a financial aspect, I DO know that these forums and THIS PARTICULAR forum has had a HUGE impact on how I spend my money and IMO to limit it to Collectors Club Members and Dealers only would be a tragedy. Maybe not tomorrow but certainly in the years to come.
Ask yourself a straight forward question: Would you pay $49.95 just for the priviledge of posting to a coin forum? Personally, I would not since there are so many free forums available. Good, bad or indifferent, they are out there and many folks already use them. I may lurk, but I certainly would not join simply for the privilege of having my voice heard.
The one good aspect about this particular forum is the diverse attitudes and opinions of ALL its members. You may not agree with some of them at times and you may not like some of them but its what keeps this forum ACTIVE. An ACTIVE forum is a GOOD forum. An inactive forum is a dead forum which doe not attract new posters. This is the PRIMARY reason I hang out here, the forum is ACTIVE. The forum ATS is only quasi-active. Other coin forums are active but only to the point of two maybe three NEW posts a day.
I think charging to use this forum will NOT be a good idea. If PCGS wants to eliminate anonymity, then person profile information should be added according to the sign up information. Verifiable First Name and Last Name in a field that is not editable by the user. Maybe that would work.
The name is LEE!
BTW - This message board software is off the shelf, its nothing special, nor expensive, nor hard. The bandwidth is probably the most expensive part.
Many of the new rules do not violate any of these. I think it is only fair to people who come here that they are duly notified of what they can and can’t say and what they can and can’t think here.
As far as restricting posts to paying members only, have you noticed the advertisements at the top of bottom of every page? I suspect that the amount of money they charge these companies is based on the message board traffic. Every time you click one of the messages to read or respond to it, a "cha-ching" sound is heard by PCGS.
Edited to fix links.
<< <i>Restricting this to PCGS members only would be silly. Is this about Helping new collectors or about showing off high end plastic??
By telling new collectors they have to sign up with PCGS to educate themselves in numismatics is ridiculous. Such things should be free. >>
I'm another person who stumbled onto these boards as a result of searching some arcane string of words related to a very specific question about Lincoln cents.
Had I been forced to pay to participate in the forum, I likely would not have and probably would have gone away. At some later point, I signed up as a platinum-level member.
Sometimes it's good to provide a free service that can help develop a customer base over the long term.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!