This 2008-W Buffalo thing...

buffalonut · December 5, 2009 1:23PM

is getting out of hand!Link.

My two young daughters own 1/116 of the pop.

They love modern crap

2manycoins2fewfunds · December 5, 2009 11:30PM

1/116 of FS population or 1/116 of total 2008-w $50 gold proofs??

Huge difference................

If it is the FS population I'd suggest selling the FS and rolling it into non FS 2008 4 coin sets.

The FS premium tends to deminish with time...............

ricko · December 5, 2009 11:58PM

"The FS premium tends to deminish with time.." Especially since it is meaningless to begin with... Cheers, RickO

Obiwancanoli · December 6, 2009 1:00AM

Meaningless, perhaps...

But some people are paying Moon money for these.

If you're the seller, how meaningless is THAT?

19Lyds · December 6, 2009 1:34AM

<< "The FS premium tends to deminish with time.." Especially since it is meaningless to begin with... Cheers, RickO >>

Meaningless to just as many that it does have meaning to.

Exactly the same meaning as Presidential Dollar First Day of Issue slabs.

Or Millenium Silver Eagle Slabs.

Or PR70 Slabs.

Or MS70 Slabs.

PipestonePete · December 6, 2009 1:43AM

At least the Presidential Dollar series is available in a First Day of MINTAGE series which is certainly more credible than the First Strike option.

COINB0Y · December 6, 2009 1:49AM

I'd rather have 1/116 of the Total Mintage

In any case, any ownership ratio of 1/116th of a population related to the 2008 W Buffs is fantastic.

Way to go!

You are a very nice Dad and your daughters are very lucky little Girls.

CertifiedGoldCoins · December 6, 2009 2:34AM

Collectors want to own something that makes them feel special (I know I do). Some of them, who can afford it, pay big money for a "rare" coin, even if it's almost still warm from the coin press. But even the low mintage bullion from last year can't be considered "rare," just in high demand. Selling them while they're still in high demand is usually the best strategy for making a profit, even if there are "only" 10,000 out there.

jessewvu · December 6, 2009 2:55AM

That is pretty good considering the current population of the PR70 FS $50 2008-W Amer Buff is 338. Did you cut one up?

GritsMan · December 6, 2009 3:34AM

<< Collectors want to own something that makes them feel special (I know I do). Some of them, who can afford it, pay big money for a "rare" coin, even if it's almost still warm from the coin press. But even the low mintage bullion from last year can't be considered "rare," just in high demand. Selling them while they're still in high demand is usually the best strategy for making a profit, even if there are "only" 10,000 out there. >>

You're certainly correct about many Moderns, but I got a feeling that these buffs are going to keep their premiums. I also think many--if not most--new collectors will gravitate to Moderns because they are easier to understand AND because of the myriad problems with collecting classics. It's certainly been interesting so far and will continue to be...

buffalonut · December 6, 2009 4:03AM

<< That is pretty good considering the current population of the PR70 FS $50 2008-W Amer Buff is 338. Did you cut one up? >>

I stand corrected. With your eye for detail its no wonder you are a numismatist

338/3 would give them 1/112.6666666666666666666666666667 of the population of PR70 FS $50 Buffs. Thats better yet.

jmski52 · December 6, 2009 4:06AM

Collectors want to own something that makes them feel special (I know I do). Some of them, who can afford it, pay big money for a "rare" coin, even if it's almost still warm from the coin press. But even the low mintage bullion from last year can't be considered "rare," just in high demand. Selling them while they're still in high demand is usually the best strategy for making a profit, even if there are "only" 10,000 out there.

A 19th century gold coin in VG with a mintage less than 10,000 isn't going to command nearly the premium as a sub-10,000 mintage gold Modern Bullion coin if the demand isn't there. Demand makes all the difference.

Demand plays a crucial role in collectability. Many people call something "rare" when they want to sell it, even when it's not close. Rarity is measurable, and it should be treated as measurable, whether the coin is Modern Bullion or classic gold. If it's truly rare, it better have no more than 10 examples extant in all conditions and it really ought to have constant demand from a strong collector base. In any case, I prefer to state the mintage and maybe one or two other relevant facts and let the buyer make up his own mind about desirability.

I disagree somewhat about the best strategy for making a profit. Flipping might catch a price while it's still high from the initial price rise, but it also requires alot of hurried shipping for certification, juggling of short term finances, and quick-like-a-bunny marketing & sales. Flipping also precludes making any profit as the coin matures and takes it's place among it's counterparts - possibly as a key, and possibly not. It also generates tax liabilities very quickly.

Sometimes the demand doesn't show up immediately. For example, the 1995-W Proof Silver Eagle didn't jump in price immediately, and then it did. There are other examples of this phenomenon currently in the making, and I would invite one to read through ericj96's thread in order to have a fuller understanding of the potential involved in the maturation process for Modern Bullion.

HalfStrike · December 6, 2009 5:08AM

First Strike means first graded so it will matter eventually if not already.

19Lyds · December 6, 2009 7:44AM

<< First Strike means first graded so it will matter eventually if not already.

>>

First Strike™ does NOT mean First Graded.

First Strike™ means submitted for grading within 30 days of release AND the submitter must request the First Strike™ label, otherwise, the coin just gets graded.

There is no numismatic value for First Strike™ but there are collectors that pay premiums for and want some of the "limited edition" First Strike™ Eagles. (i.e. 1996 SAE FS MS69 = 19 coins only and the Price Guide is WAY out of whack on those coins which routinely sell for $950+ )

aficionado · December 9, 2009 1:38PM

$8000 for a Proof set of NGC 70's.

Text

HalfStrike · December 9, 2009 2:03PM

<< 

<< First Strike means first graded so it will matter eventually if not already.

>>

First Strike™ does NOT mean First Graded.

First Strike™ means submitted for grading within 30 days of release AND the submitter must request the First Strike™ label, otherwise, the coin just gets graded.
>>

Technically it doesn't but eventually I think it will. I think people are saying they want to own coins graded in the first 30 days as they have the perception of being first strikes, and in later years they will be seen as having been first graded. Kind of like the old PCGS slabs are looked at now, but not quite.

edgar · December 9, 2009 3:05PM

i don't think first strike means first graded, you could keep a shipping box from the mint sealed for years, and still submit it for first strike designation, as long as that box was shipped within 30 days of first release. on the back of first strike labels it says something similar to -shipped during the first 30 days of release-..... as long as someone is willing to pay a premium for it, it will have value.

7over8 · December 9, 2009 9:40PM

Just stupid. Sell and re-invest proceeeds in $50 UNC's, Plat Uncs, and Plat Proofs.

And to think the sheeple dont even realize the $50 UNC is the MONSTER coin.

And others paying premiums for the DOG of the 08-w Buff's....the 1/2 oz UNC!!!!!

Want a MONSTER coin? How about a 08-w 1/4 oz Plat Unc with 2,481 pieces minted.........and all that for $800 bucks......thats a buy.

gsa1fan · December 9, 2009 10:07PM

How can there be more than ONE first strike per die?

aficionado · December 13, 2009 1:21PM

These are unstoppable....

$10,975 for an all 70 pcgs First strike proof set.

Text

COINB0Y · December 13, 2009 1:23PM

You'll see near $14K in the next month or so.

aficionado · December 14, 2009 3:56AM

<< You'll see near $14K in the next month or so. >>

That would be sweet.

HalfStrike · December 14, 2009 4:40AM

The 69 and raw 2008 w buffalo prices don't seem too high to me so I don't see a bubble in the prices yet. Historically the mintages are very low for those coins, especially when you add in the rebound in sales for the 2009 coins.

On the First Strike label my point was the coins were first graded as they were graded only once, with coins that don't have the first strike label they may be more than once, you never know. That may not be an issue today but in 25 years and certainly 50 years it will be is my guess. I know many think these are just modern coins but they won't be viewed that way forever.

If PCGS had been slabbing gold starting back in 1905 I think the early First Strike labels would command higher prices today compares to the same year non- first strikes.

With the first strikes you know they were probably slabbed in the first month or close to it vs. any year after that.

That is all I mean.

2manycoins2fewfunds · December 14, 2009 5:09AM

"With the first strikes you know they were probably slabbed in the first month or close to it vs. any year after that."

That is all I mean. >>

................................................................................................................
Unfortunately with a FS label you don't even get that.
Coins can be submitted for slabbing years after mintage if still in sealed boxes.

FS gets you a little cute flag and not much else.

CollectorMan · December 14, 2009 5:31AM

As has been said on this forum many other times;

"A fool and his money is soon parted."

ambro51 · December 14, 2009 5:38AM

I can think of only ONE type of First Strike that is worth a premium. Thinking of course of my 1937 buffalo nickel,"Heap Big Chief" PCGS PR66CAM. This coin indeed is one of the very first struck, since the cameo effect wore off the dies very very quickly, especially with a hard metal such as the nickel alloy. Those dies were not chrome finished like modern dies, which can give a cameo effect for as long as they are in use. So...out of 5769 struck, probably with only one die....there are a total of 16 certfied as CAMEO by pcgs and ngc...and probably no more are ever going to come to light.

So....thats a first strike. A REAL first strike.

Other than that coin....and ones like it...its all hype, plastic and label.

7over8 · December 14, 2009 9:00PM

the one....i repeat one.....2008-W Buffalo that is a strong buy is the ONE OUNCE UNC.

the PROOF one ounce is WAAAAAAY overpriced and the sheeple mentality is driving it's price higher, it will come tumbling down and invert with it's UNC brother.

the smaller coins seem to have made it to a plateau......and even the retail market is judging them as a little pricey.

time to take some money off the table. for the moment, i think it's run pretty far, pretty fast......too fast.....some of these prices look like maturity pricing that should occur 2-4 years out, that spells trouble short term.

This 2008-W Buffalo thing...

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