bad news at bowers and merena... bp now 19.5%... is this new?

joebb21 · December 2, 2009 2:28PM

just went to look at their newest catalogue and was told to look at their NEW terms and conditions.

"A Buyer's Commission of nineteen-and-one-half (19.5%) on each individual lot will be added to all purchases made by Bidders, except for reacquisitions by Consignors, regardless of affiliation with any group or organization, and will be based upon the total amount of the final bid"

As a seller, this now means I get less for my coins. It seems starnge that Bowers would raise their fees.

is this going to be the new trend?

tightbudget · December 2, 2009 2:31PM

I don't think the 19.5% BP is there to stay. It's only for that auction.

roadrunner · December 2, 2009 2:37PM

Most consignors negotiate via a percentage of hammer of price....typically 100-105%. Even at 100% of hammer that amounts to a net commission of 13%. Stating a buyer's fee is sort of irrelevant because the bidders factor that into their bids. Some newbie consignors might not understand this switch thinking that buyer's (and not themselves) pay the buyer's fee.....and think 100% of hammer is still the same old deal. With an oddball number like 19.5% I can even see some bidders forgetting to divide by 1.195 rather than 1.15 in the heat of battle....this giving the house an extra 3.9%. Keep 'em confused I say!

roadrunner

MrOrganic · December 2, 2009 10:03PM

.........well all good things must come to an end.

I am plenty busy buying from my fellow man then corporations

cie lavie

or however you spell it lol

MidLifeCrisis · December 2, 2009 10:07PM

<< cie lavie

or however you spell it lol >>

C'est la vie

mumu · December 2, 2009 10:16PM

Are these guys really not making enough money as it is just to run a damn server with pictures on it? Its ridiculous.

coinguy1 · December 2, 2009 10:23PM

<< Are these guys really not making enough money as it is just to run a damn server with pictures on it? Its ridiculous. >>

Do you have any indication of or knowledge that the different/higher buyer''s premium will apply to other, future sales, as well? And do you know how much (or little) money they are making?

mumu · December 2, 2009 10:31PM

<< 

<< Are these guys really not making enough money as it is just to run a damn server with pictures on it? Its ridiculous. >>

Do you have any indication of or knowledge that the different/higher buyer''s premium will apply to other, future sales, as well? And do you know how much (or little) money they are making? >>

I don't, that's why i asked if it's really not enough.

coinguy1 · December 2, 2009 10:38PM

<< 

<< 

<< Are these guys really not making enough money as it is just to run a damn server with pictures on it? Its ridiculous. >>

Do you have any indication of or knowledge that the different/higher buyer''s premium will apply to other, future sales, as well? And do you know how much (or little) money they are making? >>

I don't, that's why i asked if it's really not enough. >>

But you didn't just ask. You also included the comment "Its ridiculous". And if you don't have the facts, your comment was (how shall I say it ?) ridiculous

mumu · December 2, 2009 10:51PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Are these guys really not making enough money as it is just to run a damn server with pictures on it? Its ridiculous. >>

Do you have any indication of or knowledge that the different/higher buyer''s premium will apply to other, future sales, as well? And do you know how much (or little) money they are making? >>

I don't, that's why i asked if it's really not enough. >>

But you didn't just ask. You also included the comment "Its ridiculous". And if you don't have the facts, your comment was (how shall I say it ?) ridiculous

>>

OK Well then set me right and outline for me their plight and famine at 15%.

291fifth · December 2, 2009 10:53PM

Read all the auction terms and conditions and then decide whether to consign, bid or just walk away. No one is forcing you to participate in their auctions.

mumu · December 2, 2009 10:57PM

<< Read all the auction terms and conditions and then decide whether to consign, bid or just walk away. No one is forcing you to participate in their auctions. >>

But no one is preventing a discusion either.

291fifth · December 2, 2009 11:10PM

<< 

<< Read all the auction terms and conditions and then decide whether to consign, bid or just walk away. No one is forcing you to participate in their auctions. >>

But no one is preventing a discusion either. >>

Discussion is fine.

ziggy29 · December 3, 2009 12:31AM

Another example of that (ha ha) "deflation" we've been hearing so much about.

steelielee · December 3, 2009 12:44AM

IMO, Nudging into rip off territory..but if you ask them, I'm sure they'll tell you it;s actually good for you. It'll draw a better quality of coins and buyers.....as you pay more as a buyer and lose more as a seller....gotta love it...the bad news is really good news..

MikeInFL · December 3, 2009 12:49AM

As a buyer, I could care less -- I would simply factor it into my bid.

As a seller, it would drive me to look elsewhere, or at least be more demanding in my % of hammer negotiation.

As an aside, it is threads like this that remind me just how frugal most collectors are....Mike

earlyAurum · December 3, 2009 12:57AM

This is probably a mistake. They did this before and I alerted them on a prior auction. At least I hope it's a mistake for their sake. They have to remain competitive.
early

roadrunner · December 3, 2009 1:02AM

as you pay more as a buyer and lose more as a seller....gotta love it...the bad news is really good news..

Please explain exactly how the buyer has paid more for coins over the past 30 years as the buyer's premium has increased from 0% to 10%, then to 15%, and at least for this auction, to 19-1/2%. With that reasoning auction buyers are now paying nearly 20% more for coins than their 1970's brethren. One would think that if that were true that most sellers would be selling outright via fixed price sales....yet the auction business is taking a bigger percentage of rare coin sales away from the bourse floor than ever before.

roadrunner

sinin1 · December 3, 2009 1:27AM

I do not think this is a mistake - pop-up screen with bold letters on different terms

but this is also not your typical auction

an accumulation of stuff with not a single picture
a completely online auction with one closing time for everything
mostly raw coins with description frequently including cleaned

I mean like a group of 10 Isabella quarters - lightly cleaned
(I think I saw 3 lots of this?)

viewing by appointment at their Irvine? location

as I was looking at lots, I wondered if most of the auction came
from a very large dealers 'junk' box

there has to be between $50K and $100K in silver FACE

wondercoin · December 3, 2009 1:42AM

I believe the Buyers' Fee increase is only for their Collections and Accumulations
auctions, which generally contain large lots, raw coins, rolls, mint
and proof sets/products, remnant collections etc. All of these type of lots are considerable
more work and generate less in net commissions, though Bowers and Merena
provides this as a service to both the buyer and seller. I believe
many auction houses do not even accept consignments of these
bulky lots.

Wondercoin

coinguy1 · December 3, 2009 4:50AM

I checked with Bowers and this was their response:

"It is 19.5% just for Collections and Accumulations auctions".

Oddly enough, going directly to the source for answers is often quicker and more fruitful than merely speculating.

coinpictures · December 3, 2009 5:06AM

Aww, yer no fun...

roadrunner · December 3, 2009 5:18AM

Because a potential buyer/bidder has to do a lot of legwork in looking through this bulky lots....it's only fitting that "they" be charged a 19.5% buyer's fee for all that effort.

roadrunner

jhdfla · December 3, 2009 5:24AM

<< Because a potential buyer/bidder has to do a lot of legwork in looking through this bulky lots....it's only fitting that "they" be charged a 19.5% buyer's fee for all that effort.

roadrunner >>

"Bulky lots"??

You're being much too kind...

John

coinguy1 · December 3, 2009 6:42AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Are these guys really not making enough money as it is just to run a damn server with pictures on it? Its ridiculous. >>

Do you have any indication of or knowledge that the different/higher buyer''s premium will apply to other, future sales, as well? And do you know how much (or little) money they are making? >>

I don't, that's why i asked if it's really not enough. >>

But you didn't just ask. You also included the comment "Its ridiculous". And if you don't have the facts, your comment was (how shall I say it ?) ridiculous

>>

OK Well then set me right and outline for me their plight and famine at 15%. >>

As per your request to be set "right" - none of the major coin auction houses I know of (Bowers, included) make anywhere near 15% on the majority of their larger consignments. Seriously.

mrearlygold · December 3, 2009 6:49AM

Welcome back Mark

mr1931S · December 3, 2009 6:50AM

none of the major coin auction houses I know of (Bowers, included) make anywhere near 15% on the majority of their larger consignments. Seriously.

What percent "on the majority of their larger consignments" is the norm,then?

WinPitcher · December 3, 2009 7:36AM

I would think that depends on what is being consigned.

Steve

coinguy1 · December 3, 2009 7:53AM

<< none of the major coin auction houses I know of (Bowers, included) make anywhere near 15% on the majority of their larger consignments. Seriously.

What percent "on the majority of their larger consignments" is the norm,then? >>

There are a number of considerations involved that will affect the rate, but high single digits are not especaillly uncommon for valuable consignments.

BillJones · December 3, 2009 8:02AM

This is what markets are all about. If one seller is over charging for their services, buyers go elsewhere. B&M isn't even the largest auction house, but they think they can do this, let them try. The buyers can either break back their bids or stay home.

My motto for B&M is, "Bowers and Merena is neither."

For those who don't follow this, Merena retired and Bowers got the boot from the company.

DUIGUY · December 3, 2009 9:04AM

Typical of a down economy, we'r getting less so we want more.

percyb · December 3, 2009 10:42AM

<< just went to look at their newest catalogue and was told to look at their NEW terms and conditions.

"A Buyer's Commission of nineteen-and-one-half (19.5%) on each individual lot will be added to all purchases made by Bidders, except for reacquisitions by Consignors, regardless of affiliation with any group or organization, and will be based upon the total amount of the final bid"

>>

Wow. What desperation. This does nothing for their images. Yikes.

sinin1 · December 13, 2009 3:06PM

big internet only auction closing tomorrow and their sever is down

that suks

WTCG · December 13, 2009 3:11PM

I spoke to Bowers and Merena on Friday and they verified that the 19.5% buyer's premium only applies to the current Collections and Accumulations Auction closing on December 14. The buyer's premium for all other sales will remain at 15%.

The 19.5% buyer's premium matches the rate Heritage collects for their similar Gallery Auctions.

It really bothers me how a majority of people here are unwilling to directly question the source if they have a concern but rather instead solely rely on rumors and speculation. Have a question about this new policy? Call Bowers and Merena and ask them directly. That's what I did. The answer you'll get beats all kinds of forum gossip.

Oh yeah, I've had the chance to view the lots in the upcoming Collections and Accumulations Sale. If you don't believe the fact that some of those lots are actually quite bulky and a hassle to ship, you should re-read some of those descriptions again.

The Bowers and Merena Orlando Rarities sale will be available for viewing in Irvine beginning on December 21. The buyer's premium will be 15% for that auction.

Bear · December 13, 2009 3:24PM

The way I see it is this way>>>>>

You raise the price of gold and everyone

and their uncle wants to buy in. Why shouldn't

this apply to auctions. You raise the fee and

everyone and their uncle should want to buy in.

WTCG · December 13, 2009 3:31PM

Heritage charges a 19.5% buyer's premium for their Gallery Sales auctions. Those auctions include bulky lots described in a rudimentary catalog with no pictures. So why hasn't anybody here griped about them yet?

jhdfla · December 13, 2009 3:38PM

Rarities sale for Orlando still not up on their website. In fact, I just tried to get on their site just now to see again and I get a "service unavailable" message... hmmmm. maybe the site is just down for maintenance or something.

john

Edited to add, it's back up at 4:30 am, must have been normal site maintenance.

bad news at bowers and merena... bp now 19.5%... is this new?

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