I've heard of flipping houses before taking ownership..but cards?..Payment just recieved!!

IJustLoveCards · November 30, 2009 7:52PM

Hi,

He came thru after ebay pressure, board pressure, the money appreared this evening, It still does not excuse the fact that he had the item for sale before paying me. I cant believe that somone would do somehing like that.

fkw · November 30, 2009 8:11PM

More common than you think, especially in modern and by "kids" who are bidding higher than their allowance $$

Sell to the second highest bidder...........

and then bid on his auction and win it. what fun

edited... after looking at the item, Looks like a seller with OK feedback, thats messed up. Id still mess with him........ tell him you want to make a good offer on his auction.... but you need a scan of the bottom of the box 1st.

Have fun with it and then relist and get your fee back from eBay. You probably wont see any $$

Bosox1976 · November 30, 2009 8:25PM

What a clown.Time to relist and under cut him!

stevek · November 30, 2009 8:50PM

Blocked.

<<< Price: US $18,750.00 >>>

...this guy really thinks big. I believe if ya get 3 NPB's ebay cancels your account - I'm not 100% sure on that.

jeffcbay · November 30, 2009 9:52PM

Nice photo edit job... crazy people... BLOCKED!

bobbyw8469 · November 30, 2009 10:43PM

Thats crazy....maybe someone should buy his??

MBMiller25 · November 30, 2009 10:46PM

<< Thats crazy....maybe someone should buy his?? >>

I would be interested to see how he would handle things if someone did use the BIN.

Dboneesq · November 30, 2009 11:20PM

Well ... I just emailed the seller, told him I was interested and asked him to add a scan of the bottom of the box as well as the other side. I'll let you know what his response is.

Reljac · November 30, 2009 11:28PM

THe amazing thing is that if he has the money to have an inventory like this:
Invetory

Then he shouldn't have the problem paying for the box he purchased.

RonBurgundy · November 30, 2009 11:44PM

Someone should "buy" the item from him and then refuse to pay on the grounds he doesn't actually have it. Fraud.

shagrotn77 · November 30, 2009 11:48PM

What a tool. If it were actually worth what he is trying to sell it for, then that's what it would have sold for the first time around. Same venue. Same timeframe. Duh!

indiana9495 · November 30, 2009 11:58PM

I have bought from Nate Sanders in the past (non-sports related items - 2 completely handwritten Ronald Reagan letters) and never had any issues dealing with them. It is a pretty big auction house Link. I'd call them and see what is up. Everyone that I have dealt with there was very professional, but I was the buyer in this situation, not the seller.

itzagoner · December 1, 2009 12:03AM

i. forgot.

gecko109 · December 1, 2009 12:05AM

Is it possible....no matter how unlikely....that this would be a 2nd box he now owns and he simply listed his box after he won the OP's box? I have done that in the past with coins. I would win a duplicate coin as an upgrade, and then immediately list MY coin for sale on ebay. Just a thought.

IJustLoveCards · December 1, 2009 12:15AM

<< Is it possible....no matter how unlikely....that this would be a 2nd box he now owns and he simply listed his box after he won the OP's box? I have done that in the past with coins. I would win a duplicate coin as an upgrade, and then immediately list MY coin for sale on ebay. Just a thought. >>

Cant be, the mark on right side of the box is the EXACT same mark as on mine

Pittfan · December 1, 2009 12:16AM

Isn't this the guy that has the over priced cards for sale also?

itzagoner · December 1, 2009 12:22AM

<< Isn't this the guy that has the over priced cards for sale also? >>

you'll need to be more specific than 98% of eBay.

IJustLoveCards · December 1, 2009 12:24AM

<< Isn't this the guy that has the over priced cards for sale also? >>

yes he asks $450-$525 for psa 9 1971 topps...that are worth around 100.00-175.00

I personally dont care what he asks for his cards they are his and he can ask whatever he wants for them.

bobbyw8469 · December 1, 2009 12:25AM

I am glad to see I am in the 2% minority!!!!!!

jeffcbay · December 1, 2009 12:29AM

He took these two images:

Cut out the backgrounds and made them into this one image:

Littletweed · December 1, 2009 12:37AM

Nate Sanders bought a $1500 card from me and paid within a few days. When I saw the paypal email was from natesanders.com, I decided to check his site out. He had the card I had just sold him listed for $5,000. I hadn't sent the card out yet, but at least he paid.

He also has the box listed on his site natesanders.com

That is just wrong

RonBurgundy · December 1, 2009 1:05AM

Felicia - shall I call in the law dogs?

IJustLoveCards · December 1, 2009 1:14AM

Unreal, obviously he has the money to pay whats his deal?

Not needed Ron, But I appreciate the offer, I think if someone buys it from them they are the ones that may need a lawyer.

IJustLoveCards · December 1, 2009 1:27AM

relisted here:

Relisted 71 Box

ga5150 · December 1, 2009 1:28AM

Wonder how many more of the items in his inventory he doesn't actually own (at least yet)?

Rodney

<< THe amazing thing is that if he has the money to have an inventory like this:
Invetory

Then he shouldn't have the problem paying for the box he purchased. >>

PoppaJ · December 1, 2009 1:32AM

Hi Felicia,

Nate seems to ignore common sense, common courtesy and good bookkeeping practices.

Looks like he's done this stuff before .... Toolhaus Feedback Report

I don't think he's trying to stiff you on payment; it looks more to me that he just does whats good for Nate, regardless of the situation.

Normally I'd say try calling him, but it seems that he wouldn't answer anyway.

Sorry this happened to you.

I would have no problem cancelling the transaction plus reporting him to eBay. He certainly needs to be taught a lesson.

Good luck,
PoppaJ

IJustLoveCards · December 1, 2009 2:34AM

I just got off the phone with ebay, they are going to take his auction down.

RonBurgundy · December 1, 2009 2:39AM

Awesome!

Now if we could get rid of all the other tools on Ebay and this board................

bobsbbcards · December 1, 2009 2:53AM

Blocked. What a tool.

Nice item Felicia! Maybe Nate will make an offer of about $15,000 for the relisted box since he thinks it's worth over $18K.

WinPitcher · December 1, 2009 2:53AM

happens a lot with vintage cards too (pre war) another type of scam is when guys just take an image from someones web site

and mark the card up 20%, if they sell it they buy it from the site they stole the scan from.

Then they ship it to the buyer.

At least this guy 'bought' the card first. lol

At least Felicia is not out anything, if I was her I'd email the guy and ask him why he was selling her item

before he paid for it.

Steve

Carew29 · December 1, 2009 3:11AM

Thanks Felicia.....blocked him.

storm888 · December 1, 2009 3:22AM

Variations of the biz-model are VERY common.

Nothing "illegal" about it, but if you get the right
monkey on the EBAY phone they will sometimes
poof the offending listings.... sometimes not.

............................
................................

ANY number of NPB-strikes are no longer a certain path to NARUville for buyers.

Chronic NPBs are allowed to take "tutorials" and their strikes are ALL removed.

EBAY LIVE, 2008, Chicago: "We need all the buyers we can get, whether they pay or not."

al032184 · December 1, 2009 3:29AM

He wants complete payment within 24 hours... funny

VintageCardLover · December 1, 2009 4:15AM

what a complete jackass

RipublicaninMass · December 1, 2009 4:22AM

I'd call him a tool, but tools are useful for SOMETHING.....

Mickey71 · December 1, 2009 7:12AM

Very unethical. Problem is, ethics and cards do not mix for alot of people. It's a shame, but true. My question is "How does one sell a card that they do not own." To me unethical became illegal without ownership.

thenavarro · December 1, 2009 8:12AM

That's surprising as I've sold Nate thousands and thousands of dollars worth of stuff over the years (historical autographs) and he's always been a fast payer. He hasn't always been the best at managing inventory as sometimes he's paid me twice for things (which I let him know), and sometimes he's claimed he didn't receive when he did (just had to give him tracking number and he verified and apologized profusely).

Felicia, if I were you, I'd just pick up the phone and call him at 310-440-2982 and see what's up. If Nate is not there, ask for Laura Ynterna, she always managed the $$$.

Mike

storm888 · December 1, 2009 8:25AM

"...My question is "How does one sell a card that they do not own." To me unethical became illegal without ownership...."

////////////////////////////////

Absent an agreement between the buyer/seller prohibiting
the subject practice, there is no "legal" issue involved.

IF EBAY sales are really "binding contracts," the buyer is only bound
to pay prior to receipt of the item. The "buyer" has not breached
his part of the "contract" simply by listing an item prior to making the
"contracted" payment to the seller.

The EBAY policy requires that the "item location" be honestly
disclosed, but "United States, United States" placed in the
city/state boxes is sufficient to meet that seldom enforced
requirement.

Actual "possession" - ownership - is not really an EBAY issue.
Ability to possess/deliver is, obviously, all that is required.

The subject practice is VERY widespread and when executed
properly no one is harmed by it. Many small sellers actually
benefit from the practice; they make sales they would not
otherwise make.

................................

There are a number of large listing-aggregators that provide
a useful service. They grab listings, post them on their own
sites, mark them up, and buy them from the original lister when/if
a buyer bites.

............

Depending on how one interprets EBAY policies, multiple arguments
can be crafted to support/refute sundry theories as to WHEN "ownership"
to sold items transfers. We don't really need to look there.

We just need to remember that IF the "buyer" in the OP would have
paid for the item promptly - before listing it on his own site - there
would be no issue here. Thus, here, one can "argue" that most of
us think ownership is perfected by "payment to the seller." Other
arguments can be made against that position, but there is no need
to do that here.

...................................

Some infamous listing aggregators have been noted here numerous
times. The South Korean and Japanese outfits have operated
HUNDREDS of off-EBAY sites, using NOTHING but other folks' EBAY
listings.

When the foreign-listed items are purchased, the operators simply
buy the item from the EBAY seller.

This system first came into negative light when the outfits - using
commercial mail-receiving firms in Houston and Los Angeles - began
filing bogus PayPal INR-claims against THOUSANDS of EBAY sellers.

HUGE money was ripped from EBAY sellers. The foreign aggregators
were refunded their PayPal payments, and then delivered the "stolen"
merch to their own paying buyers in Asia.

The SCAMS were grouped under the labels: GreenTea SCAM, and DELTA SCAM.

None of the gangsters were properly prosecuted and dozens of
"cleaned up" versions of the scheme are in full operation today.

................

IJustLoveCards · December 1, 2009 11:02AM

I got this resolved, I was paid for the item 17 minutes ago!!

divecchia · December 1, 2009 11:21AM

I've dealt with him only on one item where I was asking for a better scan of it. He sent me a scan worse than the one that was on eBay. Then I come to find out the original scan on eBay was from the previous seller of the card only cropped smaller.

Glad you got paid...Donato

thenavarro · December 1, 2009 11:33AM

<< I got this resolved, I was paid for the item 17 minutes ago!! >>

I'm glad it worked out for you. Nate took 6 business days to pay for a $9500.00 item. Hopefully everyone else will block him and then I'll be able to sell him more stuff

That "clown" may not have the best practices that some here would like him to have, but he's no crook.

Mike

bobbyw8469 · December 1, 2009 11:34AM

Hmmm......quite possible, he didnt want to tie up that kind of money without a buyer already in hand?!?! Still, kind of unethical. I guess it is no different than shorting stocks though....

Downtown1974 · December 1, 2009 11:40AM

Felicia, Im glad it worked out for you in the end. Congrats on the sale!

Brick · December 1, 2009 11:56AM

Seems to me that if you ever purchased from this gentleman you paid way too much.

jeffcbay · December 1, 2009 12:01PM

I unblocked him as a buyer, but since I don't think there is a way to block a seller, I installed something on my computer that reaches out of the screen and smacks me upside the head if I try to buy something off of him.

fkw · December 1, 2009 12:08PM

Steve (winpitcher) mentioned a good one.

A few years back, I also had a big dealer who advertised in SCD weekly list over 100 of my cards (from my website) with jacked up prices, and when someone wanted a card he would email me and want to buy the card from my site. I knew they were my cards, exact same descriptions and some were unique.
I caught on right away to what he was doing and at least 5 times I told him "I just sold it", or I would even temporarily jack my price up to match his (kill his profit). He ended up doing this for 3-4 issues before he stopped using my inventory.

I will never buy from him again, ever.

Littletweed · December 1, 2009 3:24PM

The 1960 #229 Joe Morgan PSA 10 I sold him, he auctioned off 4 months later.

I listed the card $2000 BIN/OBO, he offered $1000, I countered $1500, he bought & paid in a couple of days.

He listed the card on his website for $5000 OBO, he even used my scan (I didn't care since he had already paid, I figured - good luck!).

Four months later he listed the card on eBay, auction style, and received $1176 for the card.

I'm sure he has made tons of $$ doing what he does, but he's not a bad buyer - not someone to block from bidding.

Felicia, I'm glad to hear you got your $$.

stevek · December 1, 2009 6:38PM

Yes, "buying" the card and then listing it and trying to sell it while delaying payment is flat out wrong...but as far as my listings and other dealers listing it as well trying to get a higher price...that's fine with me...the more the merrier...if I'm trying to sell an item for say $500, I couldn't care less who comes first with the money, and if some dealer can't supply "my" item because I just sold it to someone else, that's their problem not mine...first come first served at my price as far as I'm concerned.

stevek · December 1, 2009 7:32PM

<< Yes, "buying" the card and then listing it and trying to sell it while delaying payment is flat out wrong...but as far as my listings and other dealers listing it as well trying to get a higher price...that's fine with me...the more the merrier...if I'm trying to sell an item for say $500, I couldn't care less who comes first with the money, and if some dealer can't supply "my" item because I just sold it to someone else, that's their problem not mine...first come first served at my price as far as I'm concerned. >>

...and if someone buys the item from your ebay store or auction and ya don't fully trust them, make it perfectly clear that they'd better pay within strict ebay rules, otherwise, the item goes right back up for sale.

Knopfler · December 2, 2009 1:17AM

<< 
A few years back, I also had a big dealer who advertised in SCD weekly list over 100 of my cards (from my website) with jacked up prices, and when someone wanted a card he would email me and want to buy the card from my site. I knew they were my cards, exact same descriptions and some were unique.
I caught on right away to what he was doing and at least 5 times I told him "I just sold it", or I would even temporarily jack my price up to match his (kill his profit). He ended up doing this for 3-4 issues before he stopped using my inventory.
>>

Maybe it's just me but that sounds like a pretty good deal for you! They should have asked your permission before doing it, but he's basically paying to advertise your cards for you.

digicat · December 2, 2009 1:35AM

<< Maybe it's just me but that sounds like a pretty good deal for you! They should have asked your permission before doing it, but he's basically paying to advertise your cards for you. >>

Good point.

Some people don't like to know that they're leaving money on the table for someone else to pick up.

I've heard of flipping houses before taking ownership..but cards?..Payment just recieved!!

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