Two PSA 7 Goudey Ruths...

thunderdan · October 23, 2009 7:40AM

Never a good sign when the pics are this blurry not to mention the low # feedback and short time on eBay.

MinorLeagueSource · October 23, 2009 7:42AM

He did sell a Gehrig for 2k

mccardguy1 · October 23, 2009 7:47AM

I guess I am giving in to the paranoia after reading the fake Clemente thread but do those holders have frosted edges??? At least the one looks that way to me

thunderdan · October 23, 2009 7:51AM

I saw that. I'm not saying I'm 100% certain that these are fake clips or Craigslist scam cards; however, there are too many things going on here that raise suspicion.

Carew29 · October 23, 2009 8:32AM

so what are your suspikions?

bbcemporium · October 23, 2009 8:37AM

The Gehrig card was bought by a very reputable buyer. If he left positive feedback, I'm guessing these cards are legit.

storm888 · October 23, 2009 8:40AM

Looks like Craig's List, to me.

.........................

digicat · October 23, 2009 8:43AM

The font on the flips is consistant with those of the craigslist fakes.

StanTheManMusial · October 23, 2009 8:44AM

<< I saw that. I'm not saying I'm 100% certain that these are fake clips or Craigslist scam cards; however, there are too many things going on here that raise suspicion. >>

That was my gut feeling, as soon as I seen them.

storm888 · October 23, 2009 8:45AM

<< The Gehrig card was bought by a very reputable buyer. If he left positive feedback, I'm guessing these cards are legit. >>

////////////////////////

Kinda looks like he did not know who he was leaving FB for.

He left FB for a "buyer;" could be a simple mistake.

Fast payment, great communication. slobetz ( 577) Sep-29-09 22:35
1934 Goudey Lou Gehrig #37 SGC 80 (#220484959588) US $2,124.00

........................

The CL stuff has fooled a number of pretty sharp folks.

...........

EDIT ADD:

Looks like slobetz meant to say:

"Fast Shipment, Great Communication"

thunderdan · October 23, 2009 9:00AM

<< so what are your suspikions? >>

For starters, the flips look eerily similar to the Craigslist flips. Then, the blurry pics. Also, low feedback and hasn't sold many hi-priced cards. Finally, with the VCP of those cards being around $21K in total ($13K and $8K respectively), it is odd for him to sell them together and selling them on eBay vs. through an auction house.

jimq112 · October 23, 2009 9:10AM

Looks like craigslist cards. One of the giveaways was each batch of cards they made all had the same bar code. These 2 seem to have the same bar code, the pix are small but lined up they look the same.

WinPitcher · October 23, 2009 9:13AM

I have no idea if they are good or bad, I only know that these types of sellers are not who I want to do business with.

Steve

mcadams · October 23, 2009 9:16AM

As a rule, I never bid on items from a seller who tells me to "buy with confiedence" If he can't spell simple words, why would I trust him to recognize fake cards?

PoppaJ · October 23, 2009 10:06AM

Too many $1 items purchased for "fast feedback accumulation" ... like Black Paper Clip Free Shipping Quick feedback sexy! and THIS and THIS and THIS.

Doesn't look like he's sent any of his buyers feedback yet!

Very suspicious indeed!

PoppaJ

vladguerrero · October 23, 2009 10:39AM

also, the free overnight shipping seems to be a given with the people selling the fakes, get the money fast, ship the cards fast, hope the buyer leaves feedback fast. Holy Craigslist Batman, someone should start a Questionable PSA Holder thread to keep all these and related info (buyers/sellers/history) together...

storm888 · October 23, 2009 10:54AM

Previous Thread

relaxed · October 23, 2009 11:10AM

I just wouldn't buy this card because he displays this card with a plastic protective cover. It like he trying to hide something.

bbcemporium · October 23, 2009 12:22PM

I contacted the seller about the cards, and he gave me a little background on them as well as what he wants for them. It does look suspicious, but I still find it encouraging that one of the most reputable sellers on eBay left him positive FB on a high dollar card. With all that being said, I personally wouldn't roll the dice on these cards, but I'm not convinced they are fakes.

storm888 · October 23, 2009 12:43PM

Some of the cards in the original CL scam.

They were in pristine slabs and had counterfeit flips.
(The cert numbers all matched on the PSA site.)

1933 Goudey Ruth #53 PSA 5

T206 Cobb Re portrait PSA 6

t206 Cobb Bat on PSA 6

1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig #92 PSA6

1934 Goudey Gehrig PSA5

1952 Bowman Mantle PSA 6

1954 Aaron PSA 7

1954 Aaron PSA 6

1955 Clemente PSA6

1956 Mantle PSA 7

1951 Bowman Mantle PSA 4

.........................

Locations were all over California.

NC, SC, NJ. (Others also.)

............................

Among the Hispanic names used by the sellers:

Contreras

Hernandez

bbcemporium · October 23, 2009 1:08PM

Last year a lady from California tried to sell me these cards.... hmmm, similar to Storm's posted list?

storm888 · October 23, 2009 1:11PM

That's them

vladguerrero · October 23, 2009 2:59PM

maybe this all goes back to some all female underworld gang? seems like a lot of the sellers are female! I guess maybe it's more believable if she needs to plead ignorance. Did she send you that scan? why does the Mantle have no flip in the first pic and reversed in the second?

thunderdan · October 25, 2009 1:38AM

Yet another reason why I'm even more sure now that these are Craigslist fakes. I get an unsolicited email from this seller stating:

thats a nice 52 Topps Mante rookie you won recently. I was wondering if you might be interested in the following vintage cards graded PSA. If you are seriously interested in them I can provide you with detailed scans of each card.

1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle PSA 8
1953 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8
1956 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8
1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #53 PSA 7
1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #144 PSA 7
1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #149 PSA 7
1933 GOudey Babe Ruth #181 PSA 7
1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig #92 PSA 8

Mind you, I didn't win a 52 topps Mantle on eBay, but that didn't stop him from spamming me. These cards are all part of the Craigslist scam, and two of them are the very same that he just tried to sell.

vintageclassics · October 25, 2009 5:53AM

I met with this seller in person His cards are the real deal. I picked up The Ruth #144 PSA 7 for $6800.00 I am very happy with it. I have been around the hobby for over 20+years and I can tell you these are not the craigs list fakes. seller also hase many ungraded commons of T206's 1933 Goudeys, 51 bowmans. and 52 threw 56 Topps. The ungraded stuff I say ranged from poor condition to near mint.

Uphill · October 25, 2009 6:11AM

<< I met with this seller in person His cards are the real deal. I picked up The Ruth #144 PSA 7 for $6800.00 I am very happy with it. I have been around the hobby for over 20+years and I can tell you these are not the craigs list fakes. seller also hase many ungraded commons of T206's 1933 Goudeys, 51 bowmans. and 52 threw 56 Topps. The ungraded stuff I say ranged from poor condition to near mint. >>

Well now I'm convinced.

thunderdan · October 25, 2009 6:26AM

<< I met with this seller in person His cards are the real deal. I picked up The Ruth #144 PSA 7 for $6800.00 I am very happy with it. I have been around the hobby for over 20+years and I can tell you these are not the craigs list fakes. seller also hase many ungraded commons of T206's 1933 Goudeys, 51 bowmans. and 52 threw 56 Topps. The ungraded stuff I say ranged from poor condition to near mint. >>

Well, apparently he has another PSA 7 #144 as of this morning in case anybody's interested. lol. How about posting pics of your Goudey Ruth #144?

vintageclassics · October 25, 2009 7:43AM

Actually I bought the only Ruth card#144 he had. I must have looked at his cards for a good 2 hours. They are legit. He says he has to sell them due to some finance problems. He ended his listings on ebay because he did want to let them go to cheap. I will post a pic of the ruth card soon. thunderdan he must of sent you that email before i met with him.

vladguerrero · October 25, 2009 8:38AM

<< Actually I bought the only Ruth card#144 he had. I must have looked at his cards for a good 2 hours. They are legit. He says he has to sell them due to some finance problems. He ended his listings on ebay because he did want to let them go to cheap. I will post a pic of the ruth card soon. thunderdan he must of sent you that email before i met with him. >>

get your money back

thunderdan · October 25, 2009 9:30AM

<< Actually I bought the only Ruth card#144 he had. I must have looked at his cards for a good 2 hours. They are legit. He says he has to sell them due to some finance problems. He ended his listings on ebay because he did want to let them go to cheap. I will post a pic of the ruth card soon. thunderdan he must of sent you that email before i met with him. >>

He sent me the email this morning, offering me that Goudey #144, among others. And of course, you bought your card after 8:30 am PST. Am I right?

bbcemporium · October 25, 2009 9:43AM

<< maybe this all goes back to some all female underworld gang? seems like a lot of the sellers are female! I guess maybe it's more believable if she needs to plead ignorance. Did she send you that scan? why does the Mantle have no flip in the first pic and reversed in the second? >>

Yes, she sent that scan, and I have no idea why things appear as they do. I spoke with her over the phone, and it was a rather strange conversation. According to her, the cards came from a collection in Mexico, where the owner had no idea they had any value. In fact, according to her, the owner was handing cards out to the kids in town. Then he donated the rest of them to her father's business. Hmm... no red flags yet. Then she starts really interrogating me how I know that when I buy cards, that I'm not buying stolen goods. The whole thing reeked of scam, then she sealed the deal when she told me she had a '53 Mantle PSA 9 and wasn't sure if it had value.

With all that being said, has anyone ever purchased these fakes? Are they easy to spot in hand? Is there a thread which details this operation?

storm888 · October 25, 2009 9:43AM

Why did the con-guys ALWAYS show up to be interviewed by the
ambushers from 60-Minutes?

Because.........

The con-guys are ALWAYS convinced that they are the smartest
folks in the room.

////////////////////////////////

lmao

//////////////////////////////////

ANYBODY who bought any of the subject cards, better act fast
if they want their money back.

storm888 · October 25, 2009 9:54AM

"... the cards came from a collection in Mexico, ..."

The original CL scamsters ALL used Hispanic names.

........................

"...how I know that when I buy cards, that I'm not buying stolen goods...."

CON-101: Make the mark think the items are stolen. This will remove any
questions about why the items are so cheap; and, oddly enough, the
mark will then trust everything you tell him. The first step to gaining the
confidence of the mark is to "confide" in the mark.

..........................................

"...With all that being said, has anyone ever purchased these fakes? Are they easy to spot in hand? Is there a thread which details this operation?..."

The board across the street still has some threads about the
early CL cons. (Some of the "regulars" there got burned.)

The cards are OBVIOUS fakes, to folks with experience in
touching the real ones.

vintageclassics · October 25, 2009 10:28AM

All I can say is the cards I saw and bought from the seller who listed the ruth lot on ebay. his cards and the Ruth card I bought from him is 100% legit.

WinPitcher · October 25, 2009 11:05AM

Does anyone think this guy is a lil fishy? Or is it just me?

Steve

storm888 · October 25, 2009 11:18AM

If that seller is soliciting buyers - through EBAY - for off-EBAY transactions,
he can be reported to T&S.

NickM · October 25, 2009 2:42PM

vintageclassics - I think you are the crooked eBay seller. You're brand new here (joined this month) and have made your only 3 posts to defend him.
I call Bovine Scatology.

Nick

AgnusDei · October 25, 2009 3:42PM

Both of the Goudey Ruths are fakes and the seller should be avoided for one of two reasons:

1. He/she is unable to identify a fake/reprinted card.
2. He/she is aware of what he/she is selling (fake cards) and is in the process of committing fraud.

As has been attested to elsewhere in this thread, the fonts on both the PSA flips are completely wrong and the holders have been opened and resealed after cheap, reprinted cards have been placed inside.

DrJ · October 25, 2009 4:18PM

<< All I can say is the cards I saw and bought from the seller who listed the ruth lot on ebay. his cards and the Ruth card I bought from him is 100% legit. >>

Go away.

vintageclassics · October 25, 2009 5:36PM

Frist of all this thread has turned in to a topic of 2 diffrent people. the person bbcemporium is talking about is not the person I am talking about I can tell with ease that those are worthless fakes. The Ruth card I bought and the cards of the seller i am talking about are legit. I think many people in this thread think i am talking abou the same person bbcemporium is talking about witcch is not the case

stevek · October 25, 2009 6:11PM

I'll offer to buy it for the meltdown value of the plastic.

bobbyw8469 · October 25, 2009 8:58PM

Those cards are fake...case closed.....

scooter729 · October 25, 2009 9:34PM

This guy has been busy - not only did he come here to "defend" this reputable seller, he proactively went on Net 54 to talk about what a great seller this guy is.

Scam, scam, scam!

gonzer · October 25, 2009 9:53PM

<< and 52 threw 56 Topps. >>

Vintageclassics, 20+ years in the biz and you still can't spell?

DrJ · October 25, 2009 10:00PM

<< Frist of all this thread has turned in to a topic of 2 diffrent people. the person bbcemporium is talking about is not the person I am talking about I can tell with ease that those are worthless fakes. The Ruth card I bought and the cards of the seller i am talking about are legit. I think many people in this thread think i am talking abou the same person bbcemporium is talking about witcch is not the case >>

No one is confusing the facts. Go back under your vintage stone.

bbcemporium · October 26, 2009 1:27AM

I don't want to make unwarranted accusations, but the buyer and seller of these 2 Ruth cards have something in common... poor spelling. When I inquired about the 2 Ruth cards on eBay, here is the response I received:

Dear bbcemporium,

niter i bought them from a privet party. I want to get arount 12k for the
pair thanks

-thevintagecardexpress2009

Coincidence? Possibly. However, the jury is still out on whether the two Ruth cards are fakes based upon direct evidence of the cards themselves. If the buyer would post nice scans of the two cards, it may shed some light on this.

storm888 · October 26, 2009 3:20AM

This is funny.............

Guy registers on another forum to pump the FAKE cards.

Spells his "own" name wrong.

username vintage classiscs

name Edwin Arroyo

Edwin Aaroyo

edwin20099@yahoo.com

The constant use of different Hispanic names by these CRIMINALS
may simply be part of the scam.

There may be no genuine Mexican connection to the CL scam.

...............................

Reports of the RICO-Enterprise can be made at:

www.ic3.gov

ic3 is an aggregator of complaints. When they receive a sufficient
number of complaints, the docs are forwarded to the FBI and
other relevant Federal LEOs.

WinPitcher · October 26, 2009 5:05AM

lol yeah I just saw that.

Steve

ken61 · October 26, 2009 8:08AM

The gentleman in question may be a scammer, but you have to admire his customer service. Free overnight shipping and a 7-day money back guarantee!

Underwraps · October 26, 2009 11:09AM

ebay user slobetz bought this card from him LINK and left him a positive feedback...this user also bought a 58 mantle from felicia. Is it possible the sgc card is real and the Ruths are fakes?

stevek · October 26, 2009 4:31PM

<< ebay user slobetz bought this card from him LINK and left him a positive feedback...this user also bought a 58 mantle from felicia. Is it possible the sgc card is real and the Ruths are fakes? >>

I have no clue about this specific situation...but I do know this...be careful seeing a small amount of feedback on high dollar cards and gaining confidence to bid solely on that - think about it...a seller could list a card that he doesn't have, just have a shill account win it or a fellow scamming buddy of his win it, and of course there is no shipment involved, but positive "glowing" feedback is left...with the idea to suck in others on other auctions - I've seen it happen a number of times before on ebay...again, be careful.

Two PSA 7 Goudey Ruths...

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