What is a DGS coin?

mr3holesinone · October 20, 2009 9:47AM

I see DGS mentioned in a few threads but I haven't heard or seen what one of these creatures are yet. Can someone enlighten me? What is the early assessment regarding a comparison with the other services (ANACS, NGC & PCGS)? Are many showing up at the shows? As always, thank you very much!

commoncents05 · October 20, 2009 9:47AM

Dominion Grading Service, owned by DLRC (David Lawrence Rare Coins).

-Paul

LindeDad · October 20, 2009 10:02AM

You won't see that many of them they are not even allowed to list on eBay.
So that puts them even below ANACS.

mozin · October 20, 2009 12:29PM

Consider DGS coins raw, at least for quite awhile. It will take a good time until, if ever, this grading service is considered worthwhile by many people.

RYK · October 20, 2009 12:35PM

I saw as many DGS-graded coins as live zebras at the recent St. Louis coin show.

mr3holesinone · October 21, 2009 5:09AM

Thanks for the information guys. I only have coins graded by the first three types of grading services I listed.... looks like it will stay that way.

Longacre · October 21, 2009 5:14AM

<< I saw as many DGS-graded coins as live zebras at the recent St. Louis coin show.

>>

Why do I find this so funny?

mr1931S · October 21, 2009 5:45AM

You won't see that many of them they are not even allowed to list on eBay.

That ebay is right on the cutting edge of....something.Anyone know what that something is?

COALPORTER · October 21, 2009 5:47AM

Im not sure why ANACS gets higher reguard than ICG, since ICG is really the OLD ANACS, which was considered almost = PCGS & NGC. ?
And ANACS is really the old ICG, which was down there with SEGS and PCI.

KentuckyJ · October 21, 2009 5:48AM

> Why do I find this so funny?

Vantage point, being elite, needing something to distract you from seeing Mrs. L's new Tiffany bill? Are there ever prizes for having the correct answer to a Longacre question

mr1931S · October 21, 2009 5:52AM

So I can list my raw coin on ebay and pretty much call it what I see it as but DLRC's Dominion Grading Service expert opinion coin is not allowed.

Makes no sense to me.

LindeDad · October 21, 2009 6:13AM

<< So I can list my raw coin on ebay and pretty much call it what I see it as but DLRC's Dominion Grading Service expert opinion coin is not allowed.

Makes no sense to me.

>>

It's allowed it is just treated the same as your RAW coin.
And for now I didn't see any of them listed at Heritage either haven't checked any other auctions houses yet.

mr1931S · October 21, 2009 6:39AM

It's allowed it is just treated the same as your RAW coin.

Right.Am I allowed to say "certified by DGS" in my Title or description?

pmac · October 21, 2009 6:47AM

<< 

<< So I can list my raw coin on ebay and pretty much call it what I see it as but DLRC's Dominion Grading Service expert opinion coin is not allowed.

Makes no sense to me.

>>

It's allowed it is just treated the same as your RAW coin.
And for now I didn't see any of them listed at Heritage either haven't checked any other auctions houses yet.

>>

Heritage seems to use PCI to grade any raw coins that you send to them for auction. This seemed to be true when ANACS was in Texas, but when they moved to Colorado and took over PCI's graders, PCI moved to Texas and took over ANACS's graders and their Heritage business dealings.

PerryHall · October 21, 2009 7:12AM

<< 

<< 

<< So I can list my raw coin on ebay and pretty much call it what I see it as but DLRC's Dominion Grading Service expert opinion coin is not allowed.

Makes no sense to me.

>>

It's allowed it is just treated the same as your RAW coin.
And for now I didn't see any of them listed at Heritage either haven't checked any other auctions houses yet.

>>

Heritage seems to use PCI to grade any raw coins that you send to them for auction. This seemed to be true when ANACS was in Texas, but when they moved to Colorado and took over PCI's graders, PCI moved to Texas and took over ANACS's graders and their Heritage business dealings. >>

Don't you mean ICG rather than PCI?

cone10 · October 21, 2009 7:48AM

<< It's allowed it is just treated the same as your RAW coin.

Right.Am I allowed to say "certified by DGS" in my Title or description? >>

no

ziggy29 · October 21, 2009 7:58AM

<< You won't see that many of them they are not even allowed to list on eBay.
So that puts them even below ANACS. >>

Only if you treat eBay as the end-all-be-all of arbiters on the matter, which given their inability to police their own venue with all the fakes they allow to be sold, I don't do.

mr1931S · October 21, 2009 8:03AM

Would I be able to say,for my ebay RAW coin auction,"certified by mr1874" in my title or description?

PrivateCoinCollector · October 21, 2009 8:03AM

Is it me or is the room spinning?

mr1931S · October 21, 2009 8:06AM

Is it me or is the room spinning?

No.

Coppercolor · October 21, 2009 8:08AM

I saw a series of Peace Dollars and Mid Date Washington quarters in DGS holders at my local B&M. I thought the grading was conservative to harsh with tons of 61, 62, 63 grades for pretty clean white coins that had first been conserved by NGC as I understand the story.

Jeff

PerryHall · October 21, 2009 8:08AM

The bottom line is that you should treat a DGS coin as a raw coin that has been properly graded and authenticated and with a major dealer willing to make a market in this product. Sure beats the vast majority of raw coins in the market place.

highbidder1970 · October 21, 2009 11:03AM

Never seen one on the bourse. My take is their so called grading service is merely a vehicle of comfort for auction stuff.

GrumpyEd · October 21, 2009 11:35AM

Didn't DLRC buy the stuff from PCI?
I think they're using the slabs and equipment they got from PCI and using their own labels.

Unknown · October 21, 2009 11:42AM

This content has been removed.

PerryHall · October 21, 2009 5:56PM

<< Didn't DLRC buy the stuff from PCI?
I think they're using the slabs and equipment they got from PCI and using their own labels. >>

That is correct. DGS bought PCI's equipment but their grading stands are much more strict.

thisnamztaken · October 21, 2009 6:18PM

<< Heritage seems to use PCI to grade any raw coins that you send to them for auction. This seemed to be true when ANACS was in Texas, but when they moved to Colorado and took over PCI's graders, PCI moved to Texas and took over ANACS's graders and their Heritage business dealings. >>

<< I'm not sure why ANACS gets higher reguard than ICG, since ICG is really the OLD ANACS, which was considered almost = PCGS & NGC. ?
And ANACS is really the old ICG, which was down there with SEGS and PCI. >>

Gimmee a few minutes to sort this all out.

Better yet, I think I'll just continue to ignore TPG labels and judge the coin inside the plastic on its own merits.

thisnamztaken · October 22, 2009 4:34PM

<< I see DGS mentioned in a few threads but I haven't heard or seen what one of these creatures are yet. Can someone enlighten me? >>

Here's your answer, straight from the horse's mouth!

derryb · October 22, 2009 4:37PM

<< 

<< It's allowed it is just treated the same as your RAW coin.

Right.Am I allowed to say "certified by DGS" in my Title or description? >>

no >>

but your picture of the slab can show the grading service and the grade

Frankcoins · October 23, 2009 1:24AM

<< So I can list my raw coin on ebay and pretty much call it what I see it as but DLRC's Dominion Grading Service expert opinion coin is not allowed.

>>

That's correct.

RYK · October 23, 2009 1:26AM

<< DGS= Didn't Grade Stupid

>>

DGS=Don't GetMe Started

DGS=Didn't Get Slabbed

500Bay · October 23, 2009 1:56AM

DGS has a visual Pop report (for coins valued over $100). That should be a plus for them - anyone can see how they grade.

It will take time, but they have potential. It is a shame they seem to get so many problem coins, but that may slow down since PCGS and NGC now slab problem coins.

BUFFNIXX · November 27, 2009 6:55AM

I doubt they will have much market impact; I looked at a lot of their mid grade buffaloes they had for sale and also in their visual pop report and they were mostly overgraded. seems that all the loose chance that makes it into david lawrence goes down to the dgs grading room in the basement where it winds up (mostly) in a dgs problem coin holder. Visusl pop report is nice, but they are still associated with PCI and that cannot help. I could of course be wrong but they have too much competition form pcgs ngc anacs icg to make much of an impact. buffnixx

jesbroken · November 27, 2009 7:28AM

I feel that their market impact may have already occurred. When they came on the market, both PCGS and NGC started slabbing previously nonslabbed coins. While only Genuine with no grade, I feel that DGS may have impacted that very corridor. JMO
Jim

RYK · November 27, 2009 7:30AM

DGS=Doesn't Get Selected (by RYK

)

TwoSides2aCoin · November 27, 2009 8:33AM

I have no clue what is on the outside of the coin, I can tell you whats inside the plastic, though. At least I'm reasonably certain of that, in hand.

anablep · November 27, 2009 8:40AM

I've seen a few at my local coin show, but other than those, which were average Morgans, I have no opinions of them as a company.

BUFFNIXX · December 1, 2009 9:21PM

I just went into the dgs website and looked at two buffalo nickels in dgs slabs. One is a 1914-d that in my opinion is only a fine-15 and they have it vf30 with no mention of the gigantic dig on the obverse. Who are they kidding!! And in another case, there is a 1914-p buffalo nickel that they have listed as ms64 with altered surfaces. Any coin with altered surfaces can only be an ms60 at best. Based on what I have seen, as well as having sent them 3 submissions early on, I would not waste time with this service. There are too many better alternative -- pcgs -- ngc -- anacs -- icg -- segs -- and if all else fails coin world holders!! All others are a complete waste of time. Any new grading service has to be consistent from the beginning, and I just do not see this with DGS. This is just PCI extended. IMHO do not waste your money with this service.

BUFFNIXX · December 1, 2009 10:47PM

I just went into the DGS buffalo nickels on David Lawrence website and graded all the buffaloes.
Here is what I found. Most of these coins have problems -- nicks -- scratches -- environmental damage -- gouges.
The problems for the most part are mentioned on the holder in light blue color.......

date DGS My
grade Grade comments
1913d t.2 g06 g04 date only 40 percent complete but has half a horn.
1914 ms64 ms60 states altered surfaces thus can only be ms60.
1914d vf30 fn15 vf20 would be a stretch -- huge obverse scratch/dig not mentioned.
1914-d xf40 xf40 a cull coin with hideoous environmental damage.
1915-d au50 au50 ok
1915-s f12 vg10 too much wear for a full fine.
1917-d au50 au50 huge scratch but it is mentioned.
1918-d vf35 vf20 way to much wear for a 35.
1918-s vf35 vf25 huge obv scratch but mentioned.
1918/7-d fn12 vg10 corroded damaged, a cull -- who would pay full retail for something like this!!!
1919-d vf30 fn15 too much wear for a 35, 20 would be a strecth
1920 au55 au55 a corroded cull.
1920-d vg10 g4 no horn, buffs head smooth, way off
1920-s vg8 g6
1923-s vf25 vg10 12 would be a stretch
1924-s vg8 g06
1925-d vf25 fn15 20 would be stretching it.
1926-d vf30 vf20
1926-d ms63 ms62 OK
1926-s vf35 vf20 hidious problems but they are mentioned on insert
1930-s ms63 ms63
1937d-3l xf45 xf40 scratches but noted on holder
1938-d ms66 ms66 a nice gem coin, correctly graded.

Just using this as a sample I would say in general they are overgrading their buffalo nickels. Anyone can look at these coins on
www.davidlawrence.com and decide for your self. This is just a sample of the stuff currently for sale. I do not know about any of the other series but this does not look good. Based on this sample alone I would avoid most dgs coins. I am sure some of them are correctly graded and some may even be undergraded in other series. So, when selecting a dgs coin be careful. I have collected and graded buffalo nickels for over 50 years so I do have some level of experience with this series. And I am very open to critisism if I seem to be too harsh.
Also most if not all of these coins were in-house coins submitted by David Lawrence to DGS. You can tell by the letter D in the rightmost digit of the serial number.
BUFFNIXX

Tdec1000 · December 1, 2009 11:20PM

<< I just went into the DGS buffalo nickels on David Lawrence website and graded all the buffaloes.
Here is what I found. Most of these coins have problems -- nicks -- scratches -- environmental damage -- gouges.
The problems for the most part are mentioned on the holder in light blue color.......

date DGS My
grade Grade comments
1913d t.2 g06 g04 date only 40 percent complete but has half a horn.
1914 ms64 ms60 states altered surfaces thus can only be ms60.
1914d vf30 fn15 vf20 would be a stretch -- huge obverse scratch/dig not mentioned.
1914-d xf40 xf40 a cull coin with hideoous environmental damage.
1915-d au50 au50 ok
1915-s f12 vg10 too much wear for a full fine.
1917-d au50 au50 huge scratch but it is mentioned.
1918-d vf35 vf20 way to much wear for a 35.
1918-s vf35 vf25 huge obv scratch but mentioned.
1918/7-d fn12 vg10 corroded damaged, a cull -- who would pay full retail for something like this!!!
1919-d vf30 fn15 too much wear for a 35, 20 would be a strecth
1920 au55 au55 a corroded cull.
1920-d vg10 g4 no horn, buffs head smooth, way off
1920-s vg8 g6
1923-s vf25 vg10 12 would be a stretch
1924-s vg8 g06
1925-d vf25 fn15 20 would be stretching it.
1926-d vf30 vf20
1926-d ms63 ms62 OK
1926-s vf35 vf20 hidious problems but they are mentioned on insert
1930-s ms63 ms63
1937d-3l xf45 xf40 scratches but noted on holder
1938-d ms66 ms66 a nice gem coin, correctly graded.

Just using this as a sample I would say in general they are overgrading their buffalo nickels. Anyone can look at these coins on
www.davidlawrence.com and decide for your self. This is just a sample of the stuff currently for sale. I do not know about any of the other series but this does not look good. Based on this sample alone I would avoid most dgs coins. I am sure some of them are correctly graded and some may even be undergraded in other series. So, when selecting a dgs coin be careful. I have collected and graded buffalo nickels for over 50 years so I do have some level of experience with this series. And I am very open to critisism if I seem to be too harsh.
Also most if not all of these coins were in-house coins submitted by David Lawrence to DGS. You can tell by the letter D in the rightmost digit of the serial number.
BUFFNIXX >>

If you have graded/ collected buffalo's for over 50 years then you would know that the grading of buffalos is not the same anymore.... VF coins do not have to have a full horn like they did 20 years go..... and so on.

Also...it is too easy to make complaints on their grading when you don't have the coin in hand.

koynekwest · December 2, 2009 1:54AM

I, too, have collected these for nearly 50 years. The horn never should have been used as a grading criterion in the first place (thanks Brown and Dunn), but I can tell you that I won't pay VF money for a VF without a full horn-slabbed or not. Too often poor strike and/or advanced die state is used as an excuse for these VF "non-horn" coins when, in actuality, they are just overgraded. I've seen many examples of this in slabs.

LanLord · December 2, 2009 2:05AM

Lemme see if I got this right!

ICG >> ANACS
ANACS >> ICG
PCI >> DGS

Where is my medication, I feel an episode coming on!

OPA · December 2, 2009 2:20AM

<< Would I be able to say,for my ebay RAW coin auction,"certified by mr1874" in my title or description? >>

Instead of asking the so called experts on the subject at this forum ... familiarize yourself with the eBay policy .... click on "Some Examples"
Selling coins and currency

PerryHall · December 2, 2009 3:13AM

<< PCI >> DGS >>

Wrong. DGS is a totally new grading service. They bought PCI's slabbing equipment when they went out of business just as PCI bought Hallmark Grading Company's equipment many years earlier.

RYK · December 2, 2009 3:32AM

What is a DGS coin?

It is a low-grade or problem coin or one that is not worth slabbing with PCGS or NGC.

BUFFNIXX · December 2, 2009 8:11AM

When I graded these dgs buffalo nickels I had access to huge photos of each coin thru the david lawrence website -- www.davidlawrence.com. This was just about as good as having the coin in hand. And yes I am well aware of the horn controversy going all the way back to the brown and dunn grading guide that said a vf buffalo had to have a full horn, a fine had to be 2/3 full and to be vg half a horn had to be present. when i said that their vf30 coin was really only a fine15 i was talking about the overall wear of the coin and not just looking at the horn. grading is certainly subjective and different than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. BUFFNIXX

telephoto1 · December 2, 2009 8:24AM

Allow me to clarify this...follow the equation if you will.

PCGS > NGC
NGC > ANACS
ANACS > or = ICG
ICG > PCI, a.k.a. DGS
DGS = SEGS

What is a DGS coin?

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