question answered
MULLINS5
Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
question answered
0
MULLINS5
Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
Comments
bad karma for your group rip.
Though your intentions may be honorable, I cringe at the thought that someone out there in eBayland is waiting to crack those out to sell them as authentics.
Please know that I'm not judging you. I'm simply pointing out what I think will happen.
PoppaJ
except the people that will buy them will likely crack it out and sell them as authentic
is that it might ruin my rep and hurt my ability to do
regular kinds of biznez.
1, Sells PCA-graded cards;
2. Sells WG reprints;
are reputation wreckers, IMV.
I would not knowingly buy anything from somebody selling
"graded" cards in low-tier slabs.
I might buy a reprint card from somebody sepcializing in
such novelty items, but I would NOT buy any other kind of
"real" card from him.
I supect that it is not in the OP's longterm self-interest to
proceed with the contemplated project.
<< <i>I am a little lost here. If they are reprints, wouldn't they already be stamped as reprints? It sounds like they are counterfeits. If that is the case, definitely stamp them as such. >>
/////////////////
Lots of pretty ones are not "stamped" or marked.
They are "counterfeits" that are being called "reprints."
Marked cards are a little hard to sell.
<< <i>I'd buy one raw if they were cheap! >>
Me too but I think I already said that in an earlier thread?
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>
<< <i>I am a little lost here. If they are reprints, wouldn't they already be stamped as reprints? It sounds like they are counterfeits. If that is the case, definitely stamp them as such. >>
/////////////////
Lots of pretty ones are not "stamped" or marked.
They are "counterfeits" that are being called "reprints."
Marked cards are a little hard to sell. >>
Exactly right - no "legitimate" buyer is gonna pay $50 for a reprint of this card - they either have an ulterior motive in mind, or mistakenly didn't realize it was a reprint and made a mistake.
<< <i>
<< <i>So basically you are asking if it is OK to sell a reprint card in a fake TPG holder hoping some unknowing novice collector comes along and pays you $50 for a worthless card hoping that it may be real? >>
No, I'm saying I have these cards that are sitting here and I see people list them on eBay from time to time for 1 day auctions and get by selling them for approximately $50 - If eBay's policy is that you must have the card graded, then why not get it graded by whoever will grade it? The card and the holder would be properly labeled so that the collector knows what they are getting. If I can get rid of these cards over time then maybe with the money I could buy a real Gretzky....
No scam, I'm going to go ahead and do it and see how it goes. >>
You've got your ebay auction link posted in your sigline and I didn't check your past sales but your present sales have some decent PSA graded material, and your feedback is 100%...and now you wanna present this garbage, and I do mean Garbage with a capital G...sorry man, it just seems like a really bad idea to me.
"...No scam, I'm going to go ahead and do it and see how it goes. >>.."
/////////////////////////////////
I don't think it's a "scam," either. I just worry about
how things look to others; inventory pollution is always
risky.
Maybe you have a different account that you could use
to move 'em.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> No scam, I'm going to go ahead and do it and see how it goes. >>
Well, I suppose I may as well start scanning all my key rookie cards and reprint them, start my own grading company and see if I can make some money from the venture!
/////////////////////
How so?
<< <i>"...Not to mention the copyright infringement you are taking part in by selling these fakes could but you behind bars...."
/////////////////////
How so? >>
These are unlicensed fakes which he obviously has multiples. Either he created the fakes stealing Topps' design/card or he is knowingly selling goods which infringe on Topps' copyrighted design.
Do I need to go any further than that?
Jeff
Miscut Museum
My Mess
Jeff
Miscut Museum
My Mess
Jeff
Miscut Museum
My Mess
they will likely be fairly hard to sell. (Even honest folks
who just want hole-fillers prefer unmarked copies. Obviously,
crooks are not generally interested in cards marked "REPRINT.")
2. The chance that a criminal charge would be successfully
brought and maintained for selling such cards is about ZERO.
A civil action could be brought by the copyright owner/holder,
but it would not be worth the effort AND it might not prevail.
................
I don't see the OP's proposal as presenting a legal/ethical issue.
I simply would not want to poison my public inventory with novelty items.
(Nothing wrong with being in the novelty item biznez, but integrating
it into an "authentic collectibles" biznez on EBAY is a bad/goofy idea.)
<< <i>........Since there not authorized they are counterfeit. Counterfeits are not allowed to be sold on eBay (even if someone stamps them reprint) and I can say for certainty that they can and will be pulled if reported. >>
//////////////
The reporters are falling waaayyyy behind......
reprint all cats
reprint cards
reprint gretzky
//////////////
As noted, some reprints are authorized; some are not.
///////////////////////////////
EDIT ADD:
Coin peddlers sell counterfeit coins on EBAY by the thousands.
They are marked "copy" or "replica."
coins
BUT...... if you buy such coins from some of the foreign sellers,
you simply request that they ship "unmarked" copies and most
are happy to accommodate you.
<< <i>The reporters are falling waaayyyy behind...... >>
I was speaking of my past experiences on eBay and let's be honest the times they have changed on there.
Boils down to as far as I'm concerned calling them what they are which is counterfeits. In the end I truly do not care. If in my possession I personally would not sell them but when someone has money in something and sees others getting cold hard cash I don't blame them for wanting a piece of it. But the only way these sell for in the $50 range is without stamping them and if stamped as whatever they might get anywhere from .99 to a few dollars.
Jeff
Miscut Museum
My Mess
<< <i>1. If the cards are stamped/marked/printed "REPRINT,"
they will likely be fairly hard to sell. (Even honest folks
who just want hole-fillers prefer unmarked copies. Obviously,
crooks are not generally interested in cards marked "REPRINT.")
2. The chance that a criminal charge would be successfully
brought and maintained for selling such cards is about ZERO.
A civil action could be brought by the copyright owner/holder,
but it would not be worth the effort AND it might not prevail.
................
I don't see the OP's proposal as presenting a legal/ethical issue.
I simply would not want to poison my public inventory with novelty items.
(Nothing wrong with being in the novelty item biznez, but integrating
it into an "authentic collectibles" biznez on EBAY is a bad/goofy idea.) >>
No doubt Topps/OPC is probably not going to go after a small fry selling a few cards. The fact of the matter is it is still a violation of copyright law.
At the end of the day, it becomes more an issue of conscience if one knowingly goes around passing off non-licensed fakes.
probably not authorized reprints, what does it matter?
Yeah, it doesn't matter--authorized, unauthorized, what's the difference, right? Surely, you can't be that dense. And you're the guy organizing a group rip? The ONLY reason these "reprints" have any value is that scammers will pay $50 to try and rip off another unsuspecting buyer by selling the card as real.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
except the people that will buy them will likely crack it out and sell them as authentic >>
This is exactly what will happen. Some newb will get scamed in the long run.
These are counterfeits, plain and simple.
That you figure you're not likely to get sued or prosecuted isn't a good reason to sell them.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>It's not just copyright, it's also trademark.
These are counterfeits, plain and simple.
That you figure you're not likely to get sued or prosecuted isn't a good reason to sell them.
Nick >>
Maybe not. But the fact that you could make $50 a pop is a fair enough reason. And as for the other complaints:
1) Nobody here has any idea what the buyer would do with these. I don't, you don't, and the seller sure as hell doesn't. Moreover, it's neither your job or obligation to 'guess' what will happen to them.
2) The number of people in the market for a Gretz RC who are not aware of the fact that this is a heavily counterfeited card is very, very small. Seriously-- a lot of you guys either must not get out very often, or do almost all your hobby business with Ebay idiots, and have long since assumed that everyone involved in the hobby who doesn't participate in the CU message boards is a screaming moron. If you don't believe me, go to a local card show and ask people if they would pay book price for an ungraded Gretz (or Jordan) RC. You can go all day w/o finding someone who says 'yes'. There are not very many people in this hobby who are willing to spend $100+ on a card who haven't done their homework.
3) There is a strong market for reprints-- even unauthorized ones. I have seen collectors-- not dealers-- buy these up for good money at shows before, and the justification is always the same: "I can't afford the real deal, so this is as good as it's going to get".
4) In the final analysis, the market decides the price for commodities, and participating in a market transaction where there are no externalized costs is almost never unethical. Given the number of 'free market' dittoheads who haunt these boards, I'd think this last point would be the most compelling. The argument that the commodity is going to be used to achieve some evil end, and that restricting access to this market will make everyone better off, puts you in the EXACT same group as the gun control crowd, as well as in bed with everyone else out there who spends most of their time thinking about how they can interfere in the market transactions conducted by other Americans. You think you know how everyone should spend their money, or what should and should not be brought to market? Then go join the freaking ATF.
That is absolutely incorrect. There are MANY collectors who spend large sums of money on fraudulent product, many of whom are even long-time collectors, when it comes to counterfeit cards or resealed wax packs. Why do empty boxes and vintage wrappers command the prices they do? Sure, there are people who collect these items but the VAST majority of the purchasers are going to be crooks. That is fact, not speculation.
The OP is free to do with these counterfeit cards whatever he pleases. I would not advocate anyone going out of their way to prevent him from doing so. But if you come on these boards and start a thread and pose a question about "what should I do with X," don't act surprised if you get some opinionated responses as a result. The collective knowledge of this board has helped a lot of collectors from wasting money on garbage over the years when it comes to hobby purchases, and that is a good thing any way you look at it. Just my 2 cents..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's not just copyright, it's also trademark.
These are counterfeits, plain and simple.
That you figure you're not likely to get sued or prosecuted isn't a good reason to sell them.
Nick >>
Maybe not. But the fact that you could make $50 a pop is a fair enough reason. And as for the other complaints:
1) Nobody here has any idea what the buyer would do with these. I don't, you don't, and the seller sure as hell doesn't. Moreover, it's neither your job or obligation to 'guess' what will happen to them.
2) The number of people in the market for a Gretz RC who are not aware of the fact that this is a heavily counterfeited card is very, very small. Seriously-- a lot of you guys either must not get out very often, or do almost all your hobby business with Ebay idiots, and have long since assumed that everyone involved in the hobby who doesn't participate in the CU message boards is a screaming moron. If you don't believe me, go to a local card show and ask people if they would pay book price for an ungraded Gretz (or Jordan) RC. You can go all day w/o finding someone who says 'yes'. There are not very many people in this hobby who are willing to spend $100+ on a card who haven't done their homework.
3) There is a strong market for reprints-- even unauthorized ones. I have seen collectors-- not dealers-- buy these up for good money at shows before, and the justification is always the same: "I can't afford the real deal, so this is as good as it's going to get".
4) In the final analysis, the market decides the price for commodities, and participating in a market transaction where there are no externalized costs is almost never unethical. Given the number of 'free market' dittoheads who haunt these boards, I'd think this last point would be the most compelling. The argument that the commodity is going to be used to achieve some evil end, and that restricting access to this market will make everyone better off, puts you in the EXACT same group as the gun control crowd, as well as in bed with everyone else out there who spends most of their time thinking about how they can interfere in the market transactions conducted by other Americans. You think you know how everyone should spend their money, or what should and should not be brought to market? Then go join the freaking ATF. >>
It is this freemarket is the only way line which got this country in this current financial mess. The same thought process could be applied to anything else illegal including drugs, prostitution, or pirated copies of Microsoft Windows. The point is we have laws and should abide by the rule of law to maintain a functional society.
Without Intellectual Protection (a non-free market concept by the way), there would be no incentive to innovate which free market pundits swear the free market accomplishes on its own.
J
<< <i>
1) Nobody here has any idea what the buyer would do with these. I don't, you don't, and the seller sure as hell doesn't. Moreover, it's neither your job or obligation to 'guess' what will happen to them. >>
Good point... but to assume that any buyer is ethical (when dealing with reprints/counterfits) is not good selling practices.
<< <i>2) The number of people in the market for a Gretz RC who are not aware of the fact that this is a heavily counterfeited card is very, very small. >>
$50 for a counterfit/reprint?? - why would anyone pay this much then?
<< <i>Seriously-- a lot of you guys either must not get out very often, or do almost all your hobby business with Ebay idiots, and have long since assumed that everyone involved in the hobby who doesn't participate in the CU message boards is a screaming moron. If you don't believe me, go to a local card show and ask people if they would pay book price for an ungraded Gretz (or Jordan) RC. You can go all day w/o finding someone who says 'yes'. There are not very many people in this hobby who are willing to spend $100+ on a card who haven't done their homework. >>
In person transactions vs. ebay are quite different. It is easy to find people willing to spend extra $$ online - the scammers.
<< <i>3) There is a strong market for reprints-- even unauthorized ones. I have seen collectors-- not dealers-- buy these up for good money at shows before, and the justification is always the same: "I can't afford the real deal, so this is as good as it's going to get". >>
In person anyone will say that, to believe that is plain ignorance - that is unless you believe anything you hear.
<< <i>4) In the final analysis, the market decides the price for commodities, and participating in a market transaction where there are no externalized costs is almost never unethical. >>
almost never unethical, OK...
<< <i>Given the number of 'free market' dittoheads who haunt these boards, I'd think this last point would be the most compelling. The argument that the commodity is going to be used to achieve some evil end, and that restricting access to this market will make everyone better off, puts you in the EXACT same group as the gun control crowd, as well as in bed with everyone else out there who spends most of their time thinking about how they can interfere in the market transactions conducted by other Americans. You think you know how everyone should spend their money, or what should and should not be brought to market? Then go join the freaking ATF. >>
If guns were allowed to be purchased on ebay like cards are, I'd hear the arguement. But that's not the case - it's cards, not guns. To believe that selling counterfit/reprint cards, would not end up in wrong hands, is ignorant. It's a question of ethics. I wouldn't do it.
Edit: If you truly feel there's nothing wrong with selling these cards, why not sell them under your regular seller's account?? Why even consider such an evasive route as using your poor unwitting father's account? The answer is more obvious than you think..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.