<< <i>I appreciate the positive responses I have receieved to the original thread (positive meaning feedback on pros/cons of going through with slabbing these). PoppaJ, OAKESY25, storm888, Boopotts, and a few others I may have missed, again - thank you for the honest, mature responses.
If you know for a fact that these sell for 5.00 or less please inform me of several instances and dealers who have sold them for this price as well as currently have them for sale >>
I gave perfectly mature responses and my only concern is calling these reprints when they are nothing more then a counterfeit. Oh I realize it sounds much nicer to call them reprints but lets be serious here. They are not authorized so they are not reprints.
As far as pointing out sales, I can't at this time (stay at home dad taking care of a premature baby takes most all of my time these days). I along with others have tracked and reported counterfeit cards in the past and when people started to stamp them I can assure you that many would sell for the starting bid of .99 and usually go no higher then $10 or so. The ones that were not stamped that managed to get to completion did go much higher and the odds are they were used to deceive others.
I'm not going to preach to you what you should or should not do. They are your cards and your choices of what you do with them does not effect me so good luck with whatever you decide.
<< <i>I appreciate the positive responses I have receieved to the original thread (positive meaning feedback on pros/cons of going through with slabbing these). PoppaJ, OAKESY25, storm888, Boopotts, and a few others I may have missed, again - thank you for the honest, mature responses.
As for the ones here who spin this off-topic, I have really very little to say to you. It is not my responsibility to keep track of cards once they are sold and out of my possession. These cards ACTUALLY DO have value. I remember multiple dealers sell these at Gibralter Trade Center in Michigan for more than the .99 claimed here (stamped REPRINT on back). Also at a TuffStuff show in Richmond, Virginia a dealer had a stack of these for 40.00 each, again all stamped REPRINT. I considered it, as I couldn't afford the real one at the time as I was only about 15, walked around to think about it..."maybe I could talk the guy down in the last 30 minutes of the show?" - no, he had sold every single one when I went back to his table.
You come here and say I am being "unethical" and "breaking the law" using language like "be behind bars" basically calling me a criminal and insinuating I'm in the works of a scam. grote15 says, "Surely, you can't be that dense. And you're the guy organizing a group rip?" - what does this mean?? How does the rip have ANYTHING to do with this thread? I have NOTHING to do with the rip except get BBCE's permission to begin it. I don't see anybody's packs. I don't collect any money.
In another thread a guy received a Bobby Orr USA Test reprint in an order he received. I said that I'd be interested in buying it for my personal collection and nam812 jumps on and says, "So you can send it to PCA with the fake Gretzkys?"
Really? >>
You just don't get it and I doubt you ever will. This post shows your maturity (or lack thereof) and inability to process viewpoints which differ from your own. Bottom line is you are breaking the law by selling unlicensed reprints. Just because you are not going to sued or arrested doesn't make your actions correct. Just because another dealer breaks the law doesn't make your actions correct either.
I'm wondering if these reprints would still hold their value if they were stamped as such. To say these actually have value might be true, but for $127?? Looks like PRO will grade reprints as well, but I could be wrong. As far as selling these on ebay it looks like prewarcardcollector can sell them without a knock on his reputation.
Hmm, might as well start printing them yourself if you haven't already lol...
At $50 a pop, why not? Cardboard and ink can't be that expensive, LOL!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I'm wondering if these reprints would still hold their value if they were stamped as such. To say these actually have value might be true, but for $127?? Looks like PRO will grade reprints as well, but I could be wrong. As far as selling these on ebay it looks like prewarcardcollector can sell them without a knock on his reputation. >>
/////////////////////////////////////////
First Link:
Appears to be a slabbed counterfeit. Not marked "Reprint." Seller misstates EBAY policy, and attemots to circumvent paper-payment policies. Also sells VERY questionable designer fashion items.
Subject card will likely end up cracked and sold as genuine.
Second Link:
Same as First Link.
Third Link:
Appears to be counterfeit card in PRO slab. Seller looks like he is trying to become king-of-the-fakes; see items sold at goofbay.com.
Blatant SCAMARAMA.
Fourth Link:
Reverse of cards not shown. If the cards are unmarked, a future scammer got a good deal. If the cards are marked "REPRINT," the buyer got burned. Seller missates Item Specifics, attempts to circumvent payment policies, and asserts nonsense on the issue of "insurance."
It is impossible to determine affect on reputation via FB. Buyers who recognize bad sellers don't buy and don't leave FB.
Everybody is entitled to hold/state their opinions.
IMV, bashing the OP for asking a question and stating his counter arguments will have a chilling effect on folks who might have similar questions.
MANY items that can be used for bad purposes have legit uses. Boo is correct that we have no way to know for sure how any items will be used by a buyer.
The repeated assertions that there is some "illegality" in the sale of the subject items is academic, until a Federal Court answers the case-specific question. Allegations of trademark and copyright violations are NOT dispositive to the issue. It is a VERY complicated area of law AND few related cases are slam dunks; defenses are myriad.
..................
MY view that selling counterfeits - "novelty items" - is not good for a seller's rep seems to be proven by the number of folks here who are opposed to the practice.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>It is not my responsibility to keep track of cards once they are sold and out of my possession. >>
No, but I think it is not unreasonable to hold you partially responsible if they are passed off as real in a future scam. >>
the ones I'm talking about here are stamped reprint and everybody knows this, why they continue to bring it up here and post comments to threads I made over two months ago I do not understand. >>
Apology accepted. I think you have witnessed by the responses to your thread that there are alot of passionate people on these boards--expecially when it comes to people profiting from "bad" product.
There is an epidemic of "bad" material in our hobby today and alot of people have lost alot of money as a result.
So when it comes to any thread regarding counterfeit material you can probably expect passionate responses.
"You tell 'em I'm coming...and hell's coming with me"--Wyatt Earp
I am GENUINELY sorry to hear this. I will also apologize for my personal reference to your character.
I was a middle-linebacker in college and as (import-export-co) found out I have a very aggressive personality and once I set my eyes on someone I become relentless in my pursuit. And in your case my passion got the better of me--again my apologies!
I will delete the reply that I am referring to.
"You tell 'em I'm coming...and hell's coming with me"--Wyatt Earp
<< <i>So when it comes to any thread regarding counterfeit material you can probably expect passionate responses. >>
<< <i>But have they been scammed before? >>
I've been scammed with one of them Orr RCs, and one of my friends was scammed for a Gretzky and a Jordan on the same deal. He doesn't collect cards anymore.
MULLINS5 has really tarnished his reputation first with this post and then with the rash of edits. If you make statements, man up and stand by your words.
Just to keep the record straight, MULLINS5 was asking for advice on whether he should send his hoard of counterfeit unlicensed Waye Gretzky Rookie cards to a no name grading company so he could sell them to eBay, violating eBay's policy, US Copyright law and putting material in the hands of future scammers. He was going to use his Dad's ebay account to perform the deed so his normal account would not be tarnished.
Furthermore he has criticized other members in the past for editing posts and also has made posts on reporting fake Gretzkys to eBay when he was attempting to perform the same action. Hypocrisy at its best.
This is the same guy who made a post about leaving the hobby a couple of months ago and has now tried to setup a group rip. Looks like he has not left, and the post was nothing more than a tactic to stir up sympathy or traffic to his auctions.
This is the same guy who inquired recently about a fake Bobby Orr Rookie card for his personal collection. Wonder if he was going to send it off for grading with his fake Gretzky.
I collect counterfeit cards myself. I really enjoy seeing the printing technology used. Licensed reprints aren't interesting to me because they weren't intended to fool anyone. I like to see how close the scammers can get.
<< <i>Patrick isn't responsible for the reprint card market, and he's not a scammer.
My personel opinion of reprints has changed in the last couple of days. >>
I'm not saying he is. I have zero problem with Patrick, I'm saying I collect them as well, including having paid money for them. I know I'm not the only person out there. My intentions in owning them are completely honorable, and I'm glad there are people who sell counterfeits as such. It quinches a hobby thirst of mine. I hope to one day incorporate the information I've gathered into a web-based resource for collectors.
<< <i>Not trying to keep the ball rolling here but now I'm confused. Why would anyone edit out everything they said in this discussion? >>
Because they don't want a permanent record of it. >>
Ah but this is the internet and even when editing something it can still be out there to be found. For example these are after being edited but yet I found them.
And I wonder how they got to be called reprints when these were being called counterfeits?
And that only three were left after the initial sales on here.
If only three were left after the sales on here back in March then this thread seemed a bit pointless to start. Why worry about slabbing three counterfeits that may or may not get $50 on eBay? Or is there now more then three cards left?
Comments
<< <i>I appreciate the positive responses I have receieved to the original thread (positive meaning feedback on pros/cons of going through with slabbing these). PoppaJ, OAKESY25, storm888, Boopotts, and a few others I may have missed, again - thank you for the honest, mature responses.
If you know for a fact that these sell for 5.00 or less please inform me of several instances and dealers who have sold them for this price as well as currently have them for sale >>
I gave perfectly mature responses and my only concern is calling these reprints when they are nothing more then a counterfeit. Oh I realize it sounds much nicer to call them reprints but lets be serious here. They are not authorized so they are not reprints.
As far as pointing out sales, I can't at this time (stay at home dad taking care of a premature baby takes most all of my time these days). I along with others have tracked and reported counterfeit cards in the past and when people started to stamp them I can assure you that many would sell for the starting bid of .99 and usually go no higher then $10 or so. The ones that were not stamped that managed to get to completion did go much higher and the odds are they were used to deceive others.
I'm not going to preach to you what you should or should not do. They are your cards and your choices of what you do with them does not effect me so good luck with whatever you decide.
Jeff
Miscut Museum
My Mess
<< <i>I appreciate the positive responses I have receieved to the original thread (positive meaning feedback on pros/cons of going through with slabbing these). PoppaJ, OAKESY25, storm888, Boopotts, and a few others I may have missed, again - thank you for the honest, mature responses.
As for the ones here who spin this off-topic, I have really very little to say to you. It is not my responsibility to keep track of cards once they are sold and out of my possession. These cards ACTUALLY DO have value. I remember multiple dealers sell these at Gibralter Trade Center in Michigan for more than the .99 claimed here (stamped REPRINT on back). Also at a TuffStuff show in Richmond, Virginia a dealer had a stack of these for 40.00 each, again all stamped REPRINT. I considered it, as I couldn't afford the real one at the time as I was only about 15, walked around to think about it..."maybe I could talk the guy down in the last 30 minutes of the show?" - no, he had sold every single one when I went back to his table.
You come here and say I am being "unethical" and "breaking the law" using language like "be behind bars" basically calling me a criminal and insinuating I'm in the works of a scam. grote15 says, "Surely, you can't be that dense. And you're the guy organizing a group rip?" - what does this mean?? How does the rip have ANYTHING to do with this thread? I have NOTHING to do with the rip except get BBCE's permission to begin it. I don't see anybody's packs. I don't collect any money.
In another thread a guy received a Bobby Orr USA Test reprint in an order he received. I said that I'd be interested in buying it for my personal collection and nam812 jumps on and says, "So you can send it to PCA with the fake Gretzkys?"
Really? >>
You just don't get it and I doubt you ever will. This post shows your maturity (or lack thereof) and inability to process viewpoints which differ from your own. Bottom line is you are breaking the law by selling unlicensed reprints. Just because you are not going to sued or arrested doesn't make your actions correct. Just because another dealer breaks the law doesn't make your actions correct either.
Can you grasp the concept yet?
At $50 a pop, why not? Cardboard and ink can't be that expensive, LOL!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I'm wondering if these reprints would still hold their value if they were stamped as such. To say these actually have value might be true, but for $127?? Looks like PRO will grade reprints as well, but I could be wrong. As far as selling these on ebay it looks like prewarcardcollector can sell them without a knock on his reputation. >>
/////////////////////////////////////////
First Link:
Appears to be a slabbed counterfeit. Not marked "Reprint."
Seller misstates EBAY policy, and attemots to circumvent
paper-payment policies. Also sells VERY questionable designer
fashion items.
Subject card will likely end up cracked and sold as genuine.
Second Link:
Same as First Link.
Third Link:
Appears to be counterfeit card in PRO slab. Seller looks like
he is trying to become king-of-the-fakes; see items sold at
goofbay.com.
Blatant SCAMARAMA.
Fourth Link:
Reverse of cards not shown. If the cards are unmarked, a
future scammer got a good deal. If the cards are marked
"REPRINT," the buyer got burned. Seller missates Item
Specifics, attempts to circumvent payment policies, and
asserts nonsense on the issue of "insurance."
It is impossible to determine affect on reputation via FB.
Buyers who recognize bad sellers don't buy and don't
leave FB.
................................................................
There are many raw counterfeit items on EBAY, each day.
Counterfeit Ungraded On EBAY
//////////////////////////////////////////////////
Everybody is entitled to hold/state their opinions.
IMV, bashing the OP for asking a question and stating
his counter arguments will have a chilling effect on folks
who might have similar questions.
MANY items that can be used for bad purposes have legit
uses. Boo is correct that we have no way to know for sure
how any items will be used by a buyer.
The repeated assertions that there is some "illegality" in
the sale of the subject items is academic, until a Federal
Court answers the case-specific question. Allegations of
trademark and copyright violations are NOT dispositive to
the issue. It is a VERY complicated area of law AND few
related cases are slam dunks; defenses are myriad.
..................
MY view that selling counterfeits - "novelty items" - is
not good for a seller's rep seems to be proven by the
number of folks here who are opposed to the practice.
<< <i>It is not my responsibility to keep track of cards once they are sold and out of my possession. >>
No, but I think it is not unreasonable to hold you partially responsible if they are passed off as real in a future scam.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It is not my responsibility to keep track of cards once they are sold and out of my possession. >>
No, but I think it is not unreasonable to hold you partially responsible if they are passed off as real in a future scam. >>
the ones I'm talking about here are stamped reprint and everybody knows this, why they continue to bring it up here and post comments to threads I made over two months ago I do not understand. >>
Do you got any scans of them stamped?
There is an epidemic of "bad" material in our hobby today and alot of people have lost alot of money as a result.
So when it comes to any thread regarding counterfeit material you can probably expect passionate responses.
I was a middle-linebacker in college and as (import-export-co) found out I have a very aggressive personality and once I set my eyes on someone I become relentless in my pursuit. And in your case my passion got the better of me--again my apologies!
I will delete the reply that I am referring to.
<< <i>otherwise they wouldn't be worth sending to anybody for slabbing. >>
And that is where you FAIL.
You do realize that alternate third-party graders are where many dump counterfeits and altered cards for easy grades?
<< <i>So when it comes to any thread regarding counterfeit material you can probably expect passionate responses. >>
<< <i>But have they been scammed before? >>
I've been scammed with one of them Orr RCs, and one of my friends was scammed for a Gretzky and a Jordan on the same deal. He doesn't collect cards anymore.
Jeff
Miscut Museum
My Mess
<< <i>Not trying to keep the ball rolling here but now I'm confused. Why would anyone edit out everything they said in this discussion? >>
Because they don't want a permanent record of it.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
Just to keep the record straight, MULLINS5 was asking for advice on whether he should send his hoard of counterfeit unlicensed Waye Gretzky Rookie cards to a no name grading company so he could sell them to eBay, violating eBay's policy, US Copyright law and putting material in the hands of future scammers. He was going to use his Dad's ebay account to perform the deed so his normal account would not be tarnished.
Furthermore he has criticized other members in the past for editing posts and also has made posts on reporting fake Gretzkys to eBay when he was attempting to perform the same action. Hypocrisy at its best.
This is the same guy who made a post about leaving the hobby a couple of months ago and has now tried to setup a group rip. Looks like he has not left, and the post was nothing more than a tactic to stir up sympathy or traffic to his auctions.
This is the same guy who inquired recently about a fake Bobby Orr Rookie card for his personal collection. Wonder if he was going to send it off for grading with his fake Gretzky.
Patrick isn't responsible for the reprint card market, and he's not a scammer.
My personel opinion of reprints has changed in the last couple of days.
<< <i>Patrick isn't responsible for the reprint card market, and he's not a scammer.
My personel opinion of reprints has changed in the last couple of days. >>
I'm not saying he is. I have zero problem with Patrick, I'm saying I collect them as well, including having paid money for them. I know I'm not the only person out there. My intentions in owning them are completely honorable, and I'm glad there are people who sell counterfeits as such. It quinches a hobby thirst of mine. I hope to one day incorporate the information I've gathered into a web-based resource for collectors.
*spelling edit
I also have a few reprints. They are lancasters for my C56s. I like to display them without the fear of anything happening to them.
<< <i>
<< <i>Not trying to keep the ball rolling here but now I'm confused. Why would anyone edit out everything they said in this discussion? >>
Because they don't want a permanent record of it. >>
Ah but this is the internet and even when editing something it can still be out there to be found. For example these are after being edited but yet I found them.
And I wonder how they got to be called reprints when these were being called counterfeits?
And that only three were left after the initial sales on here.
If only three were left after the sales on here back in March then this thread seemed a bit pointless to start. Why worry about slabbing three counterfeits that may or may not get $50 on eBay? Or is there now more then three cards left?
Doesn't matter to me. Just sayin.
Jeff
Miscut Museum
My Mess
Feel free to check this dudes BST threads. Every one was edited 3+ months after being posted.
<< <i>You know when someone knows they are wrong when they go back and edit every single post. >>
Or really hungover and feeling the shame.
Edit to add: I had to do a little editing this morning, actually.
<< <i>
<< <i>You know when someone knows they are wrong when they go back and edit every single post. >>
Or really hungover and feeling the shame.
Trent, your hangovers last 3+ months? Holy Sh....
<< <i>Trent, your hangovers last 3+ months? Holy Sh.... >>
I know. But on a bright side, I think I may have seen Metallica last night???
EDIT TO ADD: Duh, I get it, I'm still half in the bag here I think.
EDIT