Do you make any price adjustments when buying ICG graded coins ?
COALPORTER
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In other words, should I take the PGCS value times some reduction factor to figure a fair price to pay (PCGS x .XX)? What specific method are you guys using?
I ask this because I know it could make a difference when/if I need to sell. (Please don't say just buy PCGS only, because I like allot of coins I see in ICG plastic, but it's just a "market thing" and it's only due dilagence.
I ask this because I know it could make a difference when/if I need to sell. (Please don't say just buy PCGS only, because I like allot of coins I see in ICG plastic, but it's just a "market thing" and it's only due dilagence.
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It's a maket preception thing IMO.
In the past there was one company that used to post fairly strong bids for ICG graded coins on CCE but a few months ago that company filed for bankruptcy protection and subsequently those bids dissapeared.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>This is a case when auction records become essential information. Check what similar coins in a similar holder bring in an auction and that should give an accurate idea of what the coins are worth.
In the past there was one company that used to post fairly strong bids for ICG graded coins on CCE but a few months ago that company filed for bankruptcy protection and subsequently those bids dissapeared. >>
I've notice how Heritage sells ICG, but they don't include them in all the data bases. Like were you can view all coins sold in other grade- they list P,N and Anacs, but omit ICG, even know they sell them.
Lance.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I think they are third party not third world but I really don't buy to many
unless they are in hand.
But then I have got third world graders that one I even acetoned sent to
one of the big three and it came back one grade better.
<< <i>I think it's best to think of these as raw coins with hidden edges. >>
<< <i>Unfortunately, this thread shows why it's impossible to introduce new and meaningful competition in this industry. >>
This thread isn't why, the business practices of the old ICG and the new ICG, plus the nature of the industry are why. ICG never released a public pop report. The ICG business model and operations model is for the most part, the same as the other company's. What do you see as ICG's competitive advantage? If there isn't any, why would anyone move away from an established player to a newer company? The grading industry as a whole, is experiencing declining revenues. It is not a good industry to be in, and a poor one to start to compete in, if the new company doesn't have a measurable edge.
Contrary to what you may believe, the majority of coin buyers are mostly interested in the coin. For the readers, if experienced collectors and dealers are saying that they discount coins in certain holders, it is best to listen, not argue.
/edit to add: as to the original question, I agree with WTCG. Look at the auction archives and see what the typical price differential is for the coins involved. For some coins there may be little if any difference. For other coins, it may be a full grade, or two grades worth or even more. Best to know that before buying or selling.
<< <i>I think it's best to think of these as raw coins with hidden edges. >>
I agree
https://www.smallcopperguy.com
Today, I don't know to much about ICg and their practices and still having a issue with them on $5k plus quality control issue with them right now... Gold is the factor in this case..
Use common sense when buying coins in the hobby.. PCGS as a whole has set the price guide bar and to me this is very dangerous.. Lets say a rare coin is sent to PCGS and crossed at the same grade as a top pop, well coins in that range tend to drop as more are added to that level..
I only see GOld and Silver prices go up/down depending on monthly metals reports, but the base is set for overall submissions to PCGS and as they have a solid thing going.
If you do your homework and really examined a ICG/Anacs/Ngc coin, get it discounted compared to the PCGS price guide, this is a good way to strengthen your overall collection... Example.. A Ms 64 morgan will be a ms 64 morgan all day long if you know how to grade.. ICG 64 morgan or Anacs 64 morgan if I see it in hand it will cross 99% of the time to PCGS..
Now older coins the standards are set different such as in copper coins. Levels/point grading are set different and are tougher at PCGS for some reason.
There has been a secret I feel for years in this hobby, if you view a raw coin or a slabbed coin from any Tpg company there is always going to be crap shoot at your expense... Most all elder coins have been slabbed and the bar has been set..
Lets finally look at the value of commons coins from 1878 to present.. A grade from 62.63.64 is around $20/$30 bucks differents... It's not worth it to reslab.. If someone tells you A ms 63 morgan in a pcgs slab is worth more than a ICG 63 morgan, advice, run and tell him to his face he/she is full of coin shavings and leave..
Different story of scarcity coins.. I would bank on PCGS and their slab all day long. JMHO and that's all I will say about that..
<< <i>Do you make any price adjustments when buying ICG graded coins ? >>
Pre adjusted price: Moon money
Adjusted price: Lunch money
(for modern stuff where a grade can be everything)
<< <i>I think it's best to think of these as raw coins with hidden edges. >>
Thank you for saying it... I wasn't quite sure how to measure my response to this thread...
I have learned to ALWAYS crack a coin out of ICG plastic... because whenever I have had one of their slabs in my display, it just sits there with zero interest... no one will even consider it...
64 BN
"I think it's best to think of these as raw coins with hidden edges"
"Buy the coin not the holder. Sometimes I think people are more interested in the holder and the number on it than the coin. I think many of the newbie’s(a lot of not so newbies too) should learn to grade for yourself and trust your own opinion of it. And remember the coin itself is the same no matter what holder it's in- the only thing that changes is your perception of it after someone judges it. "
In addition I must say that I have an enormous amount of respect for Randy Campbell, ICG's senior grader. In particular his vast experience grading silver dollars is truly impressive. We share a love for Liberty Seated Dollars which we grade to a very similar standard. Over the years I have crossed many choice AU L.S.D.'s from ICG and ANACS holders to PCGS and NGC holders at the same grade.
Randy always smiles when I see him, he's always willing and anxious to share information and ideas with people. I wish more graders were accessible and willing to really listen like Randy, he is a valuable asset to numismatics IMHO.
I find that L.S.D.'s graded by ICG with good eye-appeal sell quickly while others with average eye-appeal do not. Prices realized vary widely depending on the coin but they usually sell for less than PCGS or NGC.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>If I like the coin and agree with the grade I'll pay what it's worth to me. Of course, I treat NGC, PCGS, and ANACS coins the same way. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Bottom line – I treat ICG coins like raw coins. That also holds true for all non NGC and PCGS material. I wish it was not that way, but that is the market.
<< <i>I think it's best to think of these as raw coins with hidden edges. >>
My shorthand for this is "worse than raw".
<< <i>
<< <i>I think it's best to think of these as raw coins with hidden edges. >>
My shorthand for this is "worse than raw". >>
Wow. Do you really think ICG is that incompetent?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think it's best to think of these as raw coins with hidden edges. >>
My shorthand for this is "worse than raw". >>
Wow. Do you really think ICG is that incompetent? >>
Perry. Some people can't give up their Bmw's or Mecedes until their credit is frozen.. So that's why we read ICG or PoppysUnderground stickers are useless..
It will be always a educated game with coins.. Again has PCGS ever got a grade wrong?...
Learn the hobby, learn the information put out in front of you and stop comparing Apples to Oranges.. So what you have all your coins Slabbed PCGS or NGC then Anacs then ICG... I'll have a few stunners in ICG slabs that would put the same coin to shame at the same grade in the other TPG's holders.. Ok, so what... It doesn't matter.
I think many are not collectors, just flippers.. I do not collect a bunch of IHC, Lib Nicks Merc Dimes, I am a Gold coin man..
I came from almost proverty and know that GOLD is the cornerstone for future wealth... It has always been and always will.. So again it's a hobby of collecting coins and must be treated as so.
If you are willing to give your money to a tpg service instead of paying down your car note or mortgage, well chasing a slab is very risky and I think this is why people ask these inferior questions...
Pcgs to me is the master of coin grading. Does it mean I won't buy a ICG or any other slabbed coin? NO!!! I will buy what I see that my experience allows me too...
Now, when I came on here, almost two years ago, I shot out questions and baited some collectors about Coin Country,Shop at home, AANtv and other auction houses... Only a few took wisecracks at me, and one still does it today, totally outrageous that someone has a hardon to prove his nature in this hobby, damn greasy Halibut. On the other hand, many pm me and I shared how many people can make money off of these retail houses and frankly it tickles me today to see the same ole mumbo jumbo that coin person x that collects IHC and coin person O collects franklins thinks they know every damn thing about this hobby and then wants to argue a point that can never be settled.. The reason is it's a hobby and a person will buy what they want or think is a great bargain at the time. Trying to steal from someone with a coin in a different slab answers the question who you really are. You might be one up on that person that day, but someone or this hobby will bite you in the ass another day.
Good luck everyone and thanks for reading my speel.. Geezzeeeee!
P.S. Funny thing as certified graders go from Tpg to Tpg and then the owners of ICG that seem to be in trouble along with the economy everyone wants top dollar for a coin that will not payoff either way you look at it.. Buy the coin not the slabbbbbbbbb...
<< <i>Buy the coin not the holder. Sometimes I think people are more interested in the holder and the number on it than the coin. I think many of the newbies(alot of not so newbies too) should learn to grade for yourself and trust your own opinion of it. And remember the coin itself is the same no matter what holder it's in- the only thing that changes is your perception of it after someone judges it. >>
Well said and as long as you know what you have [regardless of holder] no sharpie dealer is gonna try to lowball or screw you and succeed at it. There are plenty of dogs in PCGS holders as well; just look at TeleTrade.